661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[bikemike]

I never considered nor implied you were dumb.

If you run 50 to 1 I retract my prediction.

You will have more wear than if you used more oil.

If I gave that impression it was not intended.....many people use more oil to reduce wear and it does in fact do that but there are trade offs with
regulations here and many 2 strokes call for more oil in other countries as it helps with wear but they are usually less restrictive exhaust wise.

Epa is a big reason for leaner oil mix and saws being on the lean side off the show room or out the box. How many saws whips blowers or whatever is tuneable is fattend up to run better make more power and not burn up exhaust side of piston. Its not bigger or more free flow exhaust if so we would be ordering parts from other countries to have a stock muff without having to mm them

 

[PES+]

The sound regulations are what had made the exhausts restrctive first and started the need for less oil the emissions issue came after the sound levels to a certain degree.

And yes you can order less restrictive mufflers from other countries still for some 2 stroke products but this is ending fast as environment regulations increase around the world.

 

[CR888]

I am all ears. Keep in mind I've done more research on the subject than I would like to admit, I simply doubt you have any information on the subject that I haven't already learned. However I'm always open to new information.

Can you explain the starting issues you had with syn oils? that one is new to me.

lt's not so much starting issues, just easier starting. For example once the carb is primed through purge or pump, you run choke till you get you 'pop' then switch to fast idle (if its got it) and pull till it starts. Once running you may find the need to blip throttle as engine is no warm to prevent stalling. You will finds in this state full synthetic's need more throttle attention to keep going untill things warm up. Try it! lt's not hard to varify, you will get it with experimentation. Try it on your hardest starting two cylce. This has nothing to do with tune. lts like when using semi stale fuel things get harder to start. Similar symtoms. Any failures you have found yet that we could discuss directly related to oil quality yet?

 

[bikemike]

I dont care about emissions and epa. I start my bon fires with old motor oil. Il run 40 to 1 all day at the minimum on any 2 stroke im not afraid to replace a plug or torch a screen. But im shure not going to run a engine lean on oil
If i was a rich environmentalists then yeah i would do the 100 to 1 mix and buy a new saw every so often. But im not rich. And being a wrench head i cant kill a good engine.

 

[CR888]

Gotta run for a bit, but will be back to discuss things a bit later. Damm CAD, l just bought another saw l think, a little reah handle 150.

 

[PES+]

I dont care about emissions and epa. I start my bon fires with old motor oil. Il run 40 to 1 all day at the minimum on any 2 stroke im not afraid to replace a plug or torch a screen. But im shure not going to run a engine lean on oil
If i was a rich environmentalists then yeah i would do the 100 to 1 mix and buy a new saw every so often. But im not rich. And being a wrench head i cant kill a good engine.

Dang...now I retract my retraction.

It may never be an issue for you but depending on conditions and application carbon may become a problem in a 2 cycle for you.

Funny you mention 100 to 1 as I have torn down a few that people have run that and they were spotless clean but worn out bearings....no carbon

 

[redbull660]

back. long azz day. uploading. this is going to take most of the night. I'll get up and work on it from time to time tonight to keep progress rolling and this produced hopefully by morning.

 

[BlueLude2001]

Whoa wait… we're supposed to be adding oil to the chainsaws gas? Awe man. Be right back.


Looking forward to the results of the test though. I'll be Switching out the 50:1 Stihl HP to 40:1 H1R this weekend.

 

[KenJax Tree]

Whoa wait… we're supposed to be adding oil to the chainsaws gas? Awe man. Be right back.


Looking forward to the results of the test though. I'll be Switching out the 50:1 Stihl HP to 40:1 H1R this weekend.

No thats what the oil tank is for, the oil is injected into the fuel.

 

[bikemike]

It may never be an issue for you but depending on conditions and application carbon may become a problem in a 2 cycle for you.

Funny you mention 100 to 1 as I have torn down a few that people have run that and they were spotless clean but worn out bearings....no carbon[/QUOTE] bet it was dry too. Nothin to hold back moisture during seasonal storage. Id get wore out too if my piston went like crazy in her cylinder with minimal amount of lube and the balls getting loose. The wetter the better

 

[Marshy]

lt can be either, a carb tuned to rich or a mix ratio to rich. One culprit also is how operators use their ope, lots of idle, half throttle ect. Carbon is mainly evil to those not rehearsed in removing/checking for it. Don't forget 99.9% of 2cycle equiptment users don't do the maintenence that enthusiasts do, they just run their two cylces as set up from dealer and only check things after a failure has occured and for this reason full synthetics come into play leaving combustion chambers, pistons, sparkplugs cleaner with less build up. That is the main reason oem's reccommend them, not for their lubricating properties.

I disagree. They lubricate better and are cleaner burning. WIN WIN

 

[bikemike]

No thats what the oil tank is for, the oil is injected into the fuel.

2 cycle bar oil is the best thing since saw chain

 

[PES+]

I dont care about emissions and epa. I start my bon fires with old motor oil. Il run 40 to 1 all day at the minimum on any 2 stroke im not afraid to replace a plug or torch a screen. But im shure not going to run a engine lean on oil
If i was a rich environmentalists then yeah i would do the 100 to 1 mix and buy a new saw every so often. But im not rich. And being a wrench head i cant kill a good engine.

I used to lean your way quite a bit until ethanol came then I saw the oil issue hands on over again like when the first mbte fuels hit

It may never be an issue for you but depending on conditions and application carbon may become a problem in a 2 cycle for you.

Funny you mention 100 to 1 as I have torn down a few that people have run that and they were spotless clean but worn out bearings....no carbon

bet it was dry too. Nothin to hold back moisture during seasonal storage. Id get wore out too if my piston went like crazy in her cylinder with minimal amount of lube and the balls getting loose. The wetter the better[/QUOTE]


Oddly only one bad big end bearing...it wore out the main bearings.

I was talking more about the piston crown being like out of the box shiny clean in all of them....no carbon with so little oil in those cases.

 

[cuttinties]

In certain instances of damage from carbon buildup would you not consider oil as a factor or just blame the fuel?

Idle time, tune and operating temperature is going to affect carbon build up too. There's more variables than a guy can shake a stick at in chainsaws.

 

[Andyshine77]

lt's not so much starting issues, just easier starting. For example once the carb is primed through purge or pump, you run choke till you get you 'pop' then switch to fast idle (if its got it) and pull till it starts. Once running you may find the need to blip throttle as engine is no warm to prevent stalling. You will finds in this state full synthetic's need more throttle attention to keep going untill things warm up. Try it! lt's not hard to varify, you will get it with experimentation. Try it on your hardest starting two cylce. This has nothing to do with tune. lts like when using semi stale fuel things get harder to start. Similar symtoms. Any failures you have found yet that we could discuss directly related to oil quality yet?

It has everything to do with tune. I have never had a hard starting 2 cycle engine, that was in prooper running condition in the 25 some years I've been running OPE. Take no offense, but it is clear you're out of your depth.

I thought you were at least going to bring up the corrosion issues some early 2T syn oils had, or the issues with rubber deterioration. All of which is a thing of the past, well unless you run Some Klotz products like original TechniPlate or Super TechniPlate.

 

[cuttinties]

I'm not too interested in the whole "oil thread" hoopla but I'll say this. I've had top ends off of a lot of saws that have been run on many different oils and ratios. 3 things play bigger roles in most average saw deaths: dull chains, dirty air filters and poor tune. If someone wants to help save saws from death start a chain thread or best air filter thread. Concentrate more on learning proper tuning techniques and how a dull or sharp chain will affect that. Understand that a dirty air filter or poor condition air filter will defeat any 32:1 or 50:1 mix that's made today. Worry more about those things and more saws will live a happy life.

 

[bikemike]

Gotta run for a bit, but will be back to discuss things a bit later. Damm CAD, l just bought another saw l think, a little reah handle 150.

Why not the bad azz ms 170. 8,000 rpm yeah that one guy stihlwontstart got me recommending that saw lol.

 

[cuttinties]

32:1 with the best fuel won't defeat this

50:1 with a great tune won't beat this

 

[bikemike]

I'm not too interested in the whole "oil thread" hoopla but I'll say this. I've had top ends off of a lot of saws that have been run on many different oils and ratios. 3 things play bigger roles in most average saw deaths: dull chains, dirty air filters and poor tune. If someone wants to help save saws from death start a chain thread or best air filter thread. Concentrate more on learning proper tuning techniques and how a dull or sharp chain will affect that. Understand that a dirty air filter or poor condition air filter will defeat any 32:1 or 50:1 mix that's made today. Worry more about those things and more saws will live a happy life.

Darn it. I like crappy bars n chain on crappy crapsmans. But the filters are still good. Got to use mine cutting tree roots for the neighbor. The engine will be on a scooter or drift trike soon.

 

[PES+]

32:1 with the best fuel won't defeat this

50:1 with a great tune won't beat this

No can't argue that point