661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[nitehawk55]

Some carbon is normal and harmless unless there is a lot of it .

 

[Whitespider]

I have lost track ,but is it ok to use stihl mix in a saw ?

Near as I can tell, from this thread, all the oils are bad... some are just worse than others.
If''n ya' mix oil with your gas the saw is gonna' smoke-out, carbon-up, sludge-up, heat-up, lock-up, blow-up, melt-down, lay-down, and generally be trashed from the inside-out (and it might even make a funny noise) .
Ain't no friggin' way any of that crap is gonna' be run in my equipment... I've been edge-a-ma-cated‼
Just last night I dumped all the 2-stroke oil and any pre-mix I had on the drive for dust control... from here-on-out I'm mixin' fresh, warm, sweet owl dung (and a ½ teaspoon of grasshopper juice for color) with my gasoline.
And if'n the owl dung don't leave enough residual slipperiness on the piston skirt, I'm gonna' add some catfish slime to the mix... it don't get much more slimy than that‼

Seriously, I'm still gonna' run the Stihl (orange bottle) dino stuff; I ain't never seen any need to fix what ain't broke... and I ain't read anything in this 221 page thread to convince me anything is broke.
*

 

[bwalker]

Near as I can tell, from this thread, all the oils are bad... some are just worse than others.
If''n ya' mix oil with your gas the saw is gonna' smoke-out, carbon-up, sludge-up, heat-up, lock-up, blow-up, melt-down, lay-down, and generally be trashed from the inside-out (and it might even make a funny noise) .
Ain't no friggin' way any of that crap is gonna' be run in my equipment... I've been edge-a-ma-cated‼
Just last night I dumped all the 2-stroke oil and any pre-mix I had on the drive for dust control... from here-on-out I'm mixin' fresh, warm, sweet owl dung (and a ½ teaspoon of grasshopper juice for color) with my gasoline.
And if'n the owl dung don't leave enough residual slipperiness on the piston skirt, I'm gonna' add some catfish slime to the mix... it don't get much more slimy than that‼

Seriously, I'm still gonna' run the Stihl (orange bottle) dino stuff; I ain't never seen any need to fix what ain't broke... and I ain't read anything in this 221 page thread to convince me anything is broke.
*

Stihl loves guys like you.

 

[Whitespider]

Stihl loves guys like you.

Now that there is funny...
I buy two or three $12.00 6-packs (maybe four if I'm real busy) of oil a year, and ain't bought a single piece of their equipment in 20 years...
"Stihl" (the corporation) shows a net loss if they figure me alone... the dealer might show a enough profit for a box-o-beer.
See bwalker, companies (like Stihl) don't love guys like me... they love guys that believe in magic, like you.
LMFAO‼
*

 

[KG441c]

Tell u fellows what Im seeing. Mtronics saws run alot leaner in the bottomends than a standard carb saws. I was running r50 at 32to1 when I tore my 241c down to port but noticed there was a good bit of r50 on the sides of the crankcase but not the crank and arm. After porting I ran r2 and tore it back down and it looked the same as r50? Strange was the bottomend looked alil dry for my taste but the exhaust port was very wet?

 

[bwalker]

Now that there is funny...
I buy two or three $12.00 6-packs (maybe four if I'm real busy) of oil a year, and ain't bought a single piece of their equipment in 20 years...
"Stihl" (the corporation) shows a net loss if they figure me alone... the dealer might show a enough profit for a box-o-beer.
See bwalker, companies (like Stihl) don't love guys like me... they love guys that believe in magic, like you.
LMFAO‼
*

No, they love you. Paying $12.00 for a $2.00 product.

 

[redbull660]

Ok got a response back from Motul...

The original post with the rest of the conversation..

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...-vs-40-1-vs-50-1.276534/page-220#post-5372592

Redbull -

Why would 800 provide more protection over 710? And in theory would/should that hold true even if 710 was run at 32:1 and 800 was run at 50:1?

Is 800 jaso -fd certified?
------------------------------

Motul -

Running the 710 at a ratio of 32:1 will not offer more protection than the 800 at 50:1. 710 needs to be run at a richer ratio because it has a thinner viscosity than the 800 2T. The thickness of the 800 2T allows it to be run leaner.

The 800 2T is an Ester based product. Esters handle heat and pressure much better than petroleum based products. Esters also burn very clean.

Regards,
Jon Muto
Marketing Coordinator
Motul USA Inc. | 790C Indigo Ct. | Pomona, CA 91767
T 909-625-1292 Ext. 200 | F 909-625-2697 | Cell 909-538-2091
[email protected]|www.motul.com
-----------------------------------------------------

Also talked to Maxmia over phone... regarding K2

I gave him my saw info and how I run it...same as I gave the other mfgr's. (see previous posts on lucas, klotz, motul, amsoil etc

K2 Mix ratio - said start at 50:1. That is what he runs in his personal saws. I asked him about mix ratio in ported saw. He said 40:1 and he's heard of guys doing 32:1 in hot saws. He said more oil in ported saw due to higher heat from higher RPM's and oil migration. (so same answer as motul gave me and belray gave me...Ill copy n paste belray's answer at the bottom of this post, motul told me this over phone)

Cold temp - in the -30 to -40s. Said maxima had tested for what temp the additives and or oil started to drop out of suspension but didn't have the exact #. Out of the companies I've talked to Belray (h1r) and Motul (800 off road) are the only others who said they actually tested for this.


What to look for - Said exactly what amsoil, motul and belray said - he said look at spark plug. Black - too rich, White - to lean - Ideal - chocolate brown. Spark plug is the easiest best way to see how your running.


Film strength and viscosity - I told him I was running stihl ultra. I asked about the viscosity difference. (13.5 k2 vs 8.9 ultra) he gave me kind of a long winded answer about film strength and how it comprises of several factors not only the viscosity but also the polarity and additive package IIRC. (I got a similar answer about this topic from belray - see previous posted emails) Anyway - film strength of k2 is better than ultra because of the viscosity and other factors that make up film strength. Point of his long winded answer was that viscosity isn't the sole contributor to film strength.

Overall - I am looking forward to testing k2.

--------------------------------

Belray's answer on more oil required for ported saws...



The higher RPMs are what cause the extra heat in addition to increasing the amount of cycles over time. This in turn as you can deduce, makes more exhaust and thus burns and expels more oil over the same amount of time otherwise. The more heat you are generating, the faster the oil should be migrating through the engine and eventually out the exhaust. It’s the higher RPMs in conjunction with the resulting heat that make the oil be consumed faster.


AndrewHodges, OMA I
Product Line Manager, Powersports Division | Bel-Ray Company, LLC
-----------------------------------

Dumonde Tech

Trx sent me this bottle of Dumonde tech for the oil test. Thanks man!

 

[bwalker]

What to look for - Said exactly what amsoil, motul and belray said - he said look at spark plug. Black - too rich, White - to lean - Ideal - chocolate brown. Spark plug is the easiest best way to see !

So it appears none of them have a clue.

 

[Effs]

So it appears none of them have a clue.

Amazing !!! Anybody that has a different opinion is full of crap. Lol!!!!

 

[redbull660]

So it appears none of them have a clue.

to belray's credit - andrew gave a very detailed answer regarding the inside of the muffler, exhaust port, piston top, rings, piston skirt, spark plug, AND...tearing the whole thing down.

well motul, maxima, amsoil, all saying spark plug is best way to check if your mix ratio is on or not. Belray saying same thing but also check...well check everything.

Don't know what to tell ya man. That's what they said.

would be helpful/more constructive if you said something besides "appears none of them have a clue".

 

[KenJax Tree]

Ahhh...even Bel Ray's marketers are the best and the rest are crap?

 

[bwalker]

to belray's credit - andrew gave a very detailed answer regarding the inside of the muffler, exhaust port, piston top, rings, piston skirt, spark plug, AND...tearing the whole thing down.

well motul, maxima, amsoil, all saying spark plug is best way to check if your mix ratio is on or not. Belray saying same thing but also check...well check everything.

Don't know what to tell ya man. That's what they said.

would be helpful/more constructive if you said something besides "appears none of them have a clue".

No offense to you, but reading a plug is not the correct way to determine the correct oil ratio. It's also a real poor way to tune,unless you do a plug chop with a brand new plug. Then your are reading the mixture ring, not by color per se.
As such I would not trust the advice of anyone suggesting such a thing.

 

[bwalker]

Amazing !!! Anybody that has a different opinion is full of crap. Lol!!!!

What you think is oppinion isnt. This is cut and dried. Even Redbull knows they are full of it.

 

[KG441c]

Imo looking at the bottomend first then the exhaust and muffler in that order. Wouldnt that dictate oil ratio? Plug reading would directly show the tune? Im still not a fan of tuning by ratios over tuning and jetting. Ill pick a ratio that shows residual in the bottomend for protection

 

[bwalker]

Tuning by ratios is ridiculous.
Load and rpm dictate ratio.

 

[KG441c]

I agree . I was telling my buddy yesterday to figure what size wood the saw would be cutting then choose a ratio . Run the saw then take a peek at the bottomend and go from there. After tuning for the load and ratio then a plug check would come into play imo

 

[Flatie]

It seems the motul guy forgot to answer your question on weather it is FD certified...

Redbull you asked what you should ask motul and i threw a question for to ask them, why didnt you ask them my question on metallics?

I also remember you discredited K2 from your testing pages back because of the PIBs it had in it and that it could cause glazing.... Yet now you say your looking forward to try it?
I am interested to see your thoughts on it though.

 

[bwalker]

PIB causing glazing is a joke. That claim is because one guy wrote an article making that claim. Problem is the guy wasn't very knowledgeable and the article was full of holes.
The majority of the FD/FC certified oils use PIB and for very good reasons. It provides great scuff resistance, yet combusts very clean.

 

[KG441c]

Wouldnt a plug check only tell what was goin on in the topend? What about the bottomend? Oil is for the bottomend. What about a 4 stroke ? It doesnt need oil in the topend only on the valves? Imo too much oil in the topend of a 2 stroke is drowning the combustion process

 

[Moparmyway]

I also remember you discreditted K2 from your tests pages back because of the PIBs it had in it and that it could cause glazing.... Yet now you say your looking forward to try it?

I might have tipped the scale a little there .....................