A reality check for a wannabe CS miller please.

[Dave Boyt]

You're right. This is a good thread and worth keeping current. Whatever mill a person uses, it is a thrill to open a log and find out what's inside. I started out with a chain saw mill, and have had three band mill since then. Once you get your second wind, you'll be back to milling, and figure out easier, more efficient ways to do it. Keep us posted.

 

[BigOakAdot]

After reading that massive list that doss made, I gotta say I'm a little discouraged. I bought a cs mill because I already had saws for firewood and figured wtf.

I milled a cherry blossom tree from my parents front yard where I grew up and it was amazing. My sister was there and kept yelling "that is EFFFING awesome dude!" She was even more hyped than I was lol.

You guys are right that nothing compares to opening up a log and seeing the natural beauty inside. Sure beats bucking it and torching it every winter. Now that I milled my first log I realized I was very unprepared. Didn't even take a second to think about drying out the wood. I have the boards in my garage just leaning against the wall. The pieces definitely twisted a little bit, but I'm pretty sure they're still salvageable. At least I had the sense to paint the ends .

Bottom line you guys are right, time is the biggest thing. We're talking easily 2 years of drying before I can even think of selling slabs or making furniture. That's a long time to see no return on your original investment. Maybe in 5 years I'll be digging up this post and telling you the killing I made on natural edge tables and countertops but until then I'll be missing that money. Happy milling everyone.

 

[pete_86]

After reading that massive list that doss made, I gotta say I'm a little discouraged. I bought a cs mill because I already had saws for firewood and figured wtf.

I milled a cherry blossom tree from my parents front yard where I grew up and it was amazing. My sister was there and kept yelling "that is EFFFING awesome dude!" She was even more hyped than I was lol.

You guys are right that nothing compares to opening up a log and seeing the natural beauty inside. Sure beats bucking it and torching it every winter. Now that I milled my first log I realized I was very unprepared. Didn't even take a second to think about drying out the wood. I have the boards in my garage just leaning against the wall. The pieces definitely twisted a little bit, but I'm pretty sure they're still salvageable. At least I had the sense to paint the ends .

Bottom line you guys are right, time is the biggest thing. We're talking easily 2 years of drying before I can even think of selling slabs or making furniture. That's a long time to see no return on your original investment. Maybe in 5 years I'll be digging up this post and telling you the killing I made on natural edge tables and countertops but until then I'll be missing that money. Happy milling everyone.

Hey man, your sis sounds cool. That's pretty funny. Get her to help you mill. I built my cabinet with pine I prob milled 10 mo ago, tree maybe sat 2 mo or so. So about a yr for 1" thickness like they say. I too wanted to build right than and there, but the time flies by. Have fun millin, make big piles of lumber like more than what you think you need, than by the time you figure out what you want to do with it you always have it and it's plenty dry. Kinda like firewood, sucks for those that have to get started from ground up.

I don't plan on selling, I have so many projects and I just keep reminding my sweety how much money we saved each time something is built. I've been doing planter boxes for container garden, cat scratching post, a lamp holder for a venus fly trap, and the cabinet. Plus I'm going to throw some green shelves up in my barn to store tools on. Yeah it'll dry and be just fine, tools won't mind slightly damp wood.

Today I went out and milled for 6 hrs, I saved myself about $123 comparing to 1x6x4 project boards at HD for $3 a pop. I'll prob use most of them at 1x12 or so. Prices much higher there, plans to build a bookcase.

Oh and setup a kiln, sounds crazy but I need to look into that. I've thought of building a room in my barn maybe 4x9 just enough to get a stack into. Throw a dehumidifier or old furnace in. For me I don't have gas available, prob stick to dehumidifier or elec heater. IMO that's extreme but it works.

 

[pete_86]

You're right. This is a good thread and worth keeping current. Whatever mill a person uses, it is a thrill to open a log and find out what's inside. I started out with a chain saw mill, and have had three band mill since then. Once you get your second wind, you'll be back to milling, and figure out easier, more efficient ways to do it. Keep us posted.

Just milled today, saw broke yesterday and had to replace tensioner slide arm only $6 part and a hardware store down the road is also a stihl dealer thank goodness. I was more worried about having to wait few days for shipping. I milled two 5' x 28" pine logs and a small prob 8" cherry log just to practice a new milling jig I built, rough cut 2x6 with angle iron on sides. I felt a bit let down that it took me nearly 6 hrs, but it's what I've got to work with and I'm happy.

What I learned today was, research your saw and see what common maintenance items or known failures. I've lost a bar nut and a tensioner slide so far after piles of lumber milled and firewood cutting, so not too bad. I'm stocking up in the future on a few tensioner arms, rim sprockets, and will get another chain loop or two. I already stocked up on bar nuts.

My saw broke two slabs into a 30" pine, was not happy as I had to get the log back onto trailer and pack everything up. Such is life and learning though. I bring bar nuts with me, the tensioner is an occasional maintenance item but point I'm making is buy replacement parts and if you're a real nut even consider dragging a spare saw out. This I never plan on doing, just stock piling common parts.

Also, I almost went with a 395xp, but not too many dealers around here. Most places carry Stihl so 660 for me and it was nice yesterday to need a part and have it local!

 

[Yellowbeard]

First, as a newish CS miller I have to first say a big thumb's up to what Doss said. That was very well put as many have mentioned.

Second, take everything that BobL says with a grain of salt. It's like trying to take advice from Hercules on whether or not things are heavy. It's like asking Michelangelo if painting is a tough gig. He can't really understand the problems we mortals face, so lots of things he thinks of as just another day in the park we find daunting. That said, LISTEN TO EVERY WORD THE MAN SAYS. I have not yet seen him give what I considered bad advice and he's at least as nice as every other Aussie I've ever met.

How much of a hurry are you in? I bought a used saw (and then sold it and bought another one) and that saved a lot of money. Look around on this site and post what you want. People around here tend to have reputations they want to protect and I have yet to be screwed (rather the reverse) on any deal I've made on this site.

I watched ebay for a while and finally picked up an Alaskan for a decent price. Get the smallest one you need for your first log. There are ways to fudge up longer rails that are a lot cheaper than what Granberg sells them for. (Or, anyway, I think I have that figured out - I'll post what I am going to try soon).

I would advise getting the largest powerhead you can. There is a big difference in the amount of time it will take with more grunt.

As for money: I am getting ready to do my first job for "pay." I put "pay" in quotes here because it is going to require a 60" bar and new chains that I don't have. I've told the guy that I'll do the work in exchange for the new equipment I have to buy. Just ordered a 60" GB titanium earlier tonight. But it means I get to use the bar and chains from now on.

Just realized how old this thread actually is so I am going to stop here and leave it as advice for others with the same type of questions.

 

[BobL]

. . . Second, take everything that BobL says with a grain of salt. It's like trying to take advice from Hercules on whether or not things are heavy. It's like asking Michelangelo if painting is a tough gig. He can't really understand the problems we mortals face, so lots of things he thinks of as just another day in the park we find daunting. That said, LISTEN TO EVERY WORD THE MAN SAYS. I have not yet seen him give what I considered bad advice and he's at least as nice as every other Aussie I've ever met. .

Jees YB my head got so big after reading this I had to stay in the same room for a while cos my head wouldn't fit through the door.

After reading that massive list that doss made, I gotta say I'm a little discouraged. I bought a cs mill because I already had saws for firewood and figured wtf..

BOA, don't be discouraged, I started with a 50 cc MAC10 with a 16" bar that belonged to my BIL that dropped its little end after a couple of small logs. That power head was probably on its last legs anyway as I had used it for several years to grub out stumps.

Two short pieces of 4x2, some bolts and some half inch ply is enough to make a very basic alaskan mill. The rest just makes it easier.

 

[Yellowbeard]

Jees YB my head got so big after reading this I had to stay in the same room for a while cos my head wouldn't fit through the door.



BOA, don't be discouraged, I started with a 50 cc MAC10 with a 16" bar that belonged to my BIL that dropped its little end after a couple of small logs. That power head was probably on its last legs anyway as I had used it for several years to grub out stumps.

Two short pieces of 4x2, some bolts and some half inch ply is enough to make a very basic alaskan mill. The rest just makes it easier.

I just call 'em like I see 'em.

 

[Dave Boyt]

BigOak, sure, there is a lot of learning, but that's part of the fun. Sharing your experiences with other like-minded folks helps. Pretty soon, you'll be dishing out advice. The 660 with a slabbing chain should be a great foundation for the mill. By the way, I sell a lot of wood fresh off the mill. As long as the customers know they're getting green wood, and understand how to dry/use it, they're fine (though the price is lower than with air dry or kiln dry wood. There are a lot of tricks the old-time woodworkers used to build with green wood that allow for it shrinking as it dries (like trestle tables). Keep us posted.

 

[KiwiBro]

There are a lot of tricks the old-time woodworkers used to build with green wood that allow for it shrinking as it dries (like trestle tables).

Which so many people, myself included, wouldn't have a clue about or how to do. I only wish I could visit an experienced wood guy for a week or so and hope some of that wisdom and experience rubs off. The way they could make joins that only tigtened when the wood dried, relying on the different drying rates of wood with differently orientated grain, etc. On my bucket list is to learn how to make furniture without any glues or screws. Currently finishing off a bookcase that has heaps of glue joints, no metal, and I'm sure there must be a way of making it without glue.

But the types of native wood I like to make stuff from is all demolition wood, not native and not green, so I'm thinking I'll have to make more mortice and tenon joins and use little wedges made from harder wood to kep the joints tight but then I worry about introducing a split that works it's way along the timber over time.

So much to learn, so little time.

But back on topic, I have a slabbing attachment coming for a little 16HP portable mill I bought recently. Cant wait for it to get here and to play and learn , and screw it up and learn, and learn.

Has anyone tried the Oregon ripping chain that skips about 5 links then has a pair of cutters then skips another 5 and so on? This is on a bar with about a 60" cut. Meant to be great for keeping the kerf clear and at least trying to reduce the heat build-up.

 

[BobL]

Which so many people, myself included, wouldn't have a clue about or how to do. I only wish I could visit an experienced wood guy for a week or so and hope some of that wisdom and experience rubs off. The way they could make joins that only tigtened when the wood dried, relying on the different drying rates of wood with differently orientated grain, etc. On my bucket list is to learn how to make furniture without any glues or screws. Currently finishing off a bookcase that has heaps of glue joints, no metal, and I'm sure there must be a way of making it without glue.

This is one way
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...milled-wood-merged.47084/page-42#post-4230957

 

[KiwiBro]

Thanks Bob. I had forgotten about that thread. Some wonderful work in there.

 

[BigOakAdot]

This is one way
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...milled-wood-merged.47084/page-42#post-4230957

Bob L that's an awesome thread. I just looked at that one page and it blew my mind. Does anyone on here know why I'm unable to view pics that are set up as links? I always get an error message when I try to open them.

BOA

 

[TheLazyBFarm]

Hopefully not a hijack.

I want to start CS milling some of my wood on my little 38 acres of heaven in SW Lincoln county, TN. Specifically, I want to mill down some cedar trees that I have cut down.

I have a MM'd Stihl MS 440 Magnum with a 25" bar. Can I use this with a CS mill, realistically? If so, what CS mill should I start out with? I have a welder and can make almost anything needed as discussed above.

I know, I know, basic questions; again hopefully not a hijack!

Thanks,

 

[BobL]

How big are the cedars? A 25" bar has a max cut width of about 19" using a conventional alaskan. Using an alaskan design that bolts the mill to the bar bolts and thru the bar nose will get you another 3" of cut.
Some details about this are in post #25 in the CS Milling 101 sticky (http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...nts-tips-and-tricks.93458/page-2#post-1507640)

 

[bower4311]

I'll chime in since my first board was milled Sunday. Milled a 3" thick board for the bar at my wedding. Had a Stihl 441, Panther Pro Mill, a couple wedges, actually used a chain that I had for the 28" bar that came with the saw (hand sharpened), and a tape measure. It did not take long for us to mill the board, and with a hand plane you can get these boards worked up pretty quickly. You will never make money with boards doing this. But you could make some money if you were interested in your own wood-working projects. A 3" thick bar could demand a pretty penny if you had the right buyer. Maybe you can make a bench, or a mantle, or a table top counter. Making stuff for yourself means you don't have to spend on something that costs thousands. Make your own table. It will look 10x as nice as a store-bought for much less money, and it's fun. If you have a saw, buy a mill if you have access to some logs. My brother and I get many for free so it works out well. The Panther Mill is a little heavier, but not too bad for my brother and I who are young. Easy to use, it needs some measurement marks sometime, but not a huge priority at the moment. We can take a saw and this mill anywhere to mill a board. It really didn't cost us too much to start up with the saw. Sure we can't mill HUGE logs, but as long as it fits the application, it's good enough for us.

Picture of Cherry Bar

 

[TheLazyBFarm]

How big are the cedars? A 25" bar has a max cut width of about 19" using a conventional alaskan. Using an alaskan design that bolts the mill to the bar bolts and thru the bar nose will get you another 3" of cut.
Some details about this are in post #25 in the CS Milling 101 sticky (http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...nts-tips-and-tricks.93458/page-2#post-1507640)

Bob, I saw that thread and your post while researching CS mills the other day; good information even if I didn't understand half of it.

I like option #5 and/or #8: How do I get them? And by "alaskan", I *assume* you're referring to the Grandberg Alaskan Mk III type CS mill?

*Currently* the largest cedar I have down right now is around 18" at the fat end (just a guestimate, I haven't measured it). It was the cedar that tried to kill me last fall.

Thanks, and again, if this is hijacking, I can start another thread.

Thanks,

 

[BobL]

Bob, I saw that thread and your post while researching CS mills the other day; good information even if I didn't understand half of it.

That's OK I can barely understand it myself

I like option #5 and/or #8: How do I get them?

You have to roll your own on these designs

And by "alaskan", I *assume* you're referring to the Grandberg Alaskan Mk III type CS mill?

My definition of an "Alaskan mill" is any portable CSM where the bar is held at each end. Granberg is just one of a number of alaskan variants around.

*Currently* the largest cedar I have down right now is around 18" at the fat end (just a guestimate, I haven't measured it). It was the cedar that tried to kill me last fall.

A 25" bar and a standard alaskan with the bar held in bar clamps at each end will will handle that but what about other trees on your property?[/QUOTE]

 

[TheLazyBFarm]

OK, so when you say "roll your own", you're referring to modding the CSM when you get it, right?

Reading the Bailey's site on CS mills, they state that you can use a smaller bar on a larger mill but not the other way around. Hence, I could use 25" bar on a 36" mill (for example) and then, if needed, upgrade to a longer bar and chain later.

I think the biggest tree I have on my property is about 6' in diameter at the trunk. I'll have to take a pic of it sometime.

Thanks,

 

[Yellowbeard]

OK, so when you say "roll your own", you're referring to modding the CSM when you get it, right?

Reading the Bailey's site on CS mills, they state that you can use a smaller bar on a larger mill but not the other way around. Hence, I could use 25" bar on a 36" mill (for example) and then, if needed, upgrade to a longer bar and chain later.

I think the biggest tree I have on my property is about 6' in diameter at the trunk. I'll have to take a pic of it sometime.

Thanks,

I /think/ what BobL means by "roll your own" is to make your own mill from scratch. I take that as his meaning from context and from the fact that I know he has made several Alaskan type (and maybe other?) mills from scratch. "Roll your own," generally, refers to rolling one's own cigarettes, which the Brits and Aussies are more prone to do than Americans. They end up using the phrase to mean any type of "make your own thing when there's a mass-produced version of that thing available but for probably a higher price." Sorry if this explanation seems patronizing - I don't mean it to me. I just thought I sensed a mis-communication happening.

If you look at several pictures of Granberg or other Alaskan mills and are fairly handy, have time, can weld, etc. then it's probably not a big deal to make something similar more cheaply from commonly available stock. And just like with cigarettes, if you know what you are doing and use quality components, there's a pretty good chance that you can make something as good or possibly quite a bit better for less money.

Again, my sincerest apologies if I have misunderstood the above situation but I lived in England for a year and found that the small differences in the way the language gets used can cause major mis-communications. For a quick example of how things can go terribly wrong, look up the subtly (but very important) difference in how Brits use the word "horny" as compared to Yanks.

 

[comptche1224]

waiting on a granberg 36" jig to show up in the mail. got loads of buckskins all around. cant wait to cut into old growth vertical grain, or some curly for that matter. let ya'll know how it goes. ms660 should be sufficient for that size mill right?