Aerial lift specialist??? WHY??

[ropensaddle]

I can change the leveling system out replace cylinders,replace compensating chain check unloader valve etc. That would be a specialist in my opinion a person trained to repair check functions etc. Chem-glaze booms

 

[pdqdl]

That`s funny stuff, BUT!!!! give it time & ill bet there is a credential for chipper operators on the way! LOL. Ill just go to the rental agency & tell em, hey Im a certified aerial specialist & chipper operator grand wizard how about a rental discount!!

speaking of rental agencies.....funny how they can rent you equip. give 5 minutes of instruction & off you go!!


LXT..............

I rented a tow-behind aerial device once. When it quit working about 25 feet up in the air, I called the rental yard with my cellular phone, asking them how I was supposed to get down?

They were clueless! After some frantic consultation with their mechanic and the owner of the business, they concluded that it was several hours away from getting a factory representative to tell them what to do.

Fortunately, whichever microswitch was defective started working again, and I got to finish the job.

Those rental yards only give you five minutes of instruction, because that's all they know about using the equipment

 

[treevet]

All joking aside, there is probably some merit in getting an entry level of knowledge into a best management practices description and test/cert.

I have had a 55 foot Hi Ranger and a 75 foot Teco for years. There is a lot to know in regards to maintenance, set up and operation esp. in relation to safety.
You BETTER know what you are doing up there though as you can knock over the boom, or break it if you slam it with a piece. It happens all the time. Using one in conjunction with a large crane can also involve a high level of risk.

 

[treeslayer]

1. When feeding debris into the infeed chute, the operator stands

A. To the curb side of the infeed
B. To the Traffic side of the infeed
C. Directly behind the infeed.
D. On the infeed table using at least one foot for assist, while holding on to the feed wheel control bar.

E. between 2 large branches, with baggy clothes and loose gloves, staring at homeowners wife thru window.

 

[Mitchell]

the title sounds cheesy

When it comes to newcomers, I'm leaning towards its likely to have more positive effect then not. You have to start some where and the ISA seems to put decent educational material out in my experience.

Quick antidote: MY 13 year old motioned me away from the chipper on a job that was not going great. He yelled in my ear "your not supposed to wear your saddle when you feed the chipper." Which I regularly did and it regularly got snagged. "Really, I didn't know you knew so FN much about feeding the FN chipper" I chastised him shook my head and went back feeding the chipper."

Later I when I apologized for swearing, he informed me he was going through the ISA tree worker CD they mailed out a few months ago, and had picked up quite a bit of good information. Information that I may never have covered with him. It made me realize other sources of information are important supplements to my instruction of my son.

I take umbrage with the title "specialist;" not likely, "Ariel lift certified" perhaps. My ariel course is 5 days with practical and written exams by an outside agency. Even then its takes many years [if ever] before any one I know would say they are a specialist. I'm talking about 100 plus foot Ariel platforms and the such but the principles are still basically the same as a small 60' bucket.

 

[treevet]

When it comes to newcomers, I'm leaning towards its likely to have more positive effect then not. You have to start some where and the ISA seems to put decent educational material out in my experience.

Quick antidote: MY 13 year old motioned me away from the chipper on a job that was not going great. He yelled in my ear "your not supposed to wear your saddle when you feed the chipper." Which I regularly did and it regularly got snagged. "Really, I didn't know you knew so FN much about feeding the FN chipper" I chastised him shook my head and went back feeding the chipper."

Later I when I apologized for swearing, he informed me he was going through the ISA tree worker CD they mailed out a few months ago, and had picked up quite a bit of good information. Information that I may never have covered with him. It made me realize other sources of information are important supplements to my instruction of my son.

I take umbrage with the title "specialist;" not likely, "Ariel lift certified" perhaps. My ariel course is 5 days with practical and written exams by an outside agency. Even then its takes many years [if ever] before any one I know would say they are a specialist. I'm talking about 100 plus foot Ariel platforms and the such but the principles are still basically the same as a small 60' bucket.

Try taking a fall over the side of a 60 ' bucket boomed out all the way and come back and tell up just how small it is.

I have no problem with the usage of specialist as opposed to expert.

 

[Dadatwins]

I have not seen the test yet but it would be my guess that it will not be aimed at how to operate the aerial lift but rather how to set up the work site and equipment. There are to many different types of aerial lifts out there to test instruct on the controls for each one. They all are required to have an owners manual with the lift at all times so the operator can look at the setup before using. The test will most likely be about setting up the worksite, proper inspection of the ground around where the outriggers will be sitting and the importance of wearing safety harness in the air. Every year we read about bucket failure from either turning over or lack of inspection or someone falling out of the basket because they were not wearing a belt. If this test helps save a few of those incidents, then it will be worth it. Like the ISA tree worker test, passing does not make you a ready-to-go climber, it only covers the bare basics of the industry. The aerial lift test will also only probably give the barest minimum on the aerial lift operation also. I do not like the working title having the word specialist in it and would prefer they keep it as a certified aerial lift operator. A specialist in my opinion is someone who has a vast knowledge of experience doing something and that takes a while. I will be writing to the ISA to convey my feelings about the title also. I suggest others do the same.

 

[Dadatwins]

This is a copy of the letter I sent to the ISA certification department, suggest others who have opinions do the same.

I would like to make the suggestion to change the working title of the aerial lift specialist certification that is currently under development. I would like to see the word 'specialist' removed from the working title of this certification. The word 'specialist' in my opinion conveys that someone has vast knowledge and ability beyond that of his/her peers. 'Specialist' similar to the electrical standard term 'journeyman' represents someone that has been practicing the trade for many years and has gained a level of experience. To gain the certified Municipal Specialist and/or Utility Specialist certification a person must have been a certified arborist for a number of years and had practical experience in the respected field. The ISA tests by design and definition represent the minimal standards that a person needs to gain the certificate. Continuing education and field practice are required to keep the certification active. Calling someone a aerial lift 'specialist' denotes that they have vast experience in the many variations and design specifications of many different aerial lifts. While I have not seen the test, it would be difficult to imagine a practical test covering the operation of all the different types of aerial lift devices. I would imagine the test to consist of basic setup and general operation of the lift and basic safety protocol when the lift is in operation. Passing this type of exam would give someone the basic knowledge to operate an aerial lift, but would not classify someone as a 'specialist' in my opinion. I would suggest that someone who has the basic knowledge and passed a general knowledge test could be considered a 'certified' aerial lift operator. Thank you for reading this letter and allowing me to express my opinion on this matter.

 

[clearance]

This is a copy of the letter I sent to the ISA certification department, suggest others who have opinions do the same.

The word 'specialist' in my opinion conveys that someone has vast knowledge and ability beyond that of his/her peers. 'Specialist' similar to the electrical standard term 'journeyman' represents someone that has been practicing the trade for many years and has gained a level of experience. To gain the certified Municipal Specialist and/or Utility Specialist certification a person must have been a certified arborist for a number of years and had practical experience in the respected field. [/I]

Utility specialist, now thats outright funny, what does this consist of in reality? Getting 70% on a multiple choice written test. Wow. And the related experience, uhhh, how about meter reader?

 

[Dadatwins]

Utility specialist, now thats outright funny, what does this consist of in reality? Getting 70% on a multiple choice written test. Wow. And the related experience, uhhh, how about meter reader?

I agree the title does not carry much weight, but it is up to the hiring agent to determine it's value. I know you have very little respect for the utility arborist certification. I feel the same about the certified arborist title since it does not require any climbing ability or practical experience. I also know that complaining about it on this forum or any other is a waste of my time, hence why I sent the letter to the ISA. Have you??

 

[clearance]

I agree the title does not carry much weight, but it is up to the hiring agent to determine it's value. I know you have very little respect for the utility arborist certification. I feel the same about the certified arborist title since it does not require any climbing ability or practical experience. I also know that complaining about it on this forum or any other is a waste of my time, hence why I sent the letter to the ISA. Have you??

No, I have not sent them a letter, and will not. I am not an ISA member, just an experienced, hard working guy with a good nose for BS.
Lots of people read this forum, including many ISA types. Some of what is said here about the various shortcomings in regards to what the ISA does are sure to be talked about. And hopefully its more than shoot the messenger talk.

 

[treevet]

I agree the title does not carry much weight, but it is up to the hiring agent to determine it's value. I know you have very little respect for the utility arborist certification. I feel the same about the certified arborist title since it does not require any climbing ability or practical experience. I also know that complaining about it on this forum or any other is a waste of my time, hence why I sent the letter to the ISA. Have you??

The Board Certified Master Arborist ...as well, is a 100 question multiple guess test. My guess is that a number of them were given this credential without even testing in the beginning. I have reason to believe this.

Good luck with that letter Dadatwins. Like beating your head against a brick wall petitioning with them.

 

[Dadatwins]

Like beating your head against a brick wall petitioning with them.

But if everyone involved wrote to them, then they might have to listen. hone:

 

[treeseer]

The Board Certified Master Arborist ...as well, is a 100 question multiple guess test. My guess is that a number of them were given this credential without even testing in the beginning. I have reason to believe this.

And we have reason to doubt your reasons, and your reasoning: 1, the BCMA test is 150 questions not 100. 2, the first time it was offered all seats were filled with folks who earned a "bye" if anyone could. Which they can't, if the cert is to be credible.

The util cert is good because it does force the test taker to study new and review forgotten stuff; helped me that way anyway.

No isa cert requires membership, unlike asca's.

clearance, please go ahead and communicate your concerns to the cert dept; the messenger is not shot, and they need to hear more from the field.

re the Aerial Lift thing, it's really disappointing to see isa and tcia offering 2 versons of the same thing. 2 orgs that after all this time have not learned to work together; disappointing.

 

[Dadatwins]

re the Aerial Lift thing, it's really disappointing to see isa and tcia offering 2 versons of the same thing. 2 orgs that after all this time have not learned to work together; disappointing.

That is a major disappointment, my opinion is that TCIA focus is on big business, and ISA more focused to single operators. As a single operator myself I was a member of TCIA for a while but the financial burden of carrying all the similiar certifications just did not make economic sense. Both good organizations and of course both have some negatives, like any other organization, but they are all we have. If they were to combine at some point they could get a much louder voice, but that is just my opinion.

 

[lxt]

Seer, TCIA & ISA seem like 2 org. competing for the same base, TCIA`s accredidation program is ridiculous to, there are many entities that can help a biz run correctly, there will always be contractors skimming the top so to speak.

I just fail to find the need for certain programs, CA, tree worker, Utility Arb I understand......these things have to do with trade oriented skills & knowledge.

biz practices & equipment training/certifications are outside their realm IMO, #1 my CPA will advise & handle biz matters, safety concerns are gone over all the time & truly is the responsibility of ones own self, Equipment training should be given by a Mfg rep or equivalant who knows about all facets of the equip. being used!

honestly...who is the ISA gonna have proctor the Aerial lift program, chances are many on here including myself will know more than them.

these certs/credentials being drummed up will in my opinion make certain things worse, OK now these are starting standards, you know the ISA wants things regulated to make the field more proffesional (I agree in some ways), only problem is.....people entering this field may need to procure these credentials & at whos expense? If their own...why? the $$$$ a CO. will offer will not offset their time, effort or $$$ spent to obtain it, If the CO. pays for it you know they arent going to give a payraise....they just spent x# of dollars training you!!

this field is having a hard time finding people, adding ridiculous credentials that may one day be a mandate to have will only lessen the want to explore this field......then they`ll de-regulate it to try to attract newcomers, all the while the payrate will not change! just my IMO


LXT.............

 

[treevet]

And we have reason to doubt your reasons, and your reasoning: 1, the BCMA test is 150 questions not 100. 2, the first time it was offered all seats were filled with folks who earned a "bye" if anyone could. Which they can't, if the cert is to be credible.

I went up to Ohio State University to take the first Certified Arborist test in 1992. Never was much into the schmoozing with the Ohio Arb Assoc. as most of it happened north of here and because I don't have the time.

I was standing in a room with (not good in guessing but this approx) 200 guys and girls. It got near the time to take this first exam in the area and maybe the first or one of the first in the country. Nobody was sitting down and no one seemed concerned. Finally at the hour, I asked the guy standing next to me, "why is no one sitting for the exam". His response was, "We are not taking the exam, it is in the other room". I went in the other room where approx 20 or 30 people were sitting with an exam in front of them.

I found out from someone that they (in the big room) were all granted credentials without taking the exam. I called after returning home and finally got the director on the phone and got a lot of hedging and said he would follow up on it. I called over and over again and finally gave up. Fairness...not a big priority here.

I had not taken the NJ Cert test prior to this as back to 1970 I knew and worked with guys that were grandfathered into the cert. credential that could not even read or write when I worked for the Big B. Then after that Hort grad friends of mine could not pass the test that I knew.

 

[treeseer]

dave ihave heard of other very holders being grandfathered in

European technician certification holders are qualified as bcma but no others I know of

Like you I don't get the whole concept of grandfathering
Why can't all take the same test if the other cert is equivalent then just prove it!!

 

[Scots Climber]

The main reason I'm still an ISA member is people recognise the name, a universal badge that people seem to trust. Don't get me wrong the ISA is a valuable organisation, but it is increasingly difficult to justify the cost of membership; IMHO.

 

[B-Edwards]

The main reason I'm still an ISA member is people recognise the name, a universal badge that people seem to trust. Don't get me wrong the ISA is a valuable organisation, but it is increasingly difficult to justify the cost of membership; IMHO.

I agree. It is a recognized organization that alot of high end clients respect. I learned things through being affiliated with them that I may not have otherwise. I will say I am tired of hearing about the conferences that I am never able to attend. I don't care who got promoted to what job , spend the money on training and teaching people how to maintain equipment and stop putting feathers in each others hats.