Air Knife? / Auger? / Casualties? / Cost?

[M.D. Vaden]

After reading input from the Sanbornmiester, and others, in "shaving tree roots" and "help with radial trenching," my interest for more equipment is gaining momentum.

T...165 suggested looking in "Help with radial trenching." But I did not notice a post in that thread that seemed to help me nail down an average cost on this AIR KNIFE issue.

One question - how much is the tool?

Also - in general, how long does it take to improve 100 square foot increments?

What is an appropriate cost per 100 square foot increments?

How much above ground mess is generated?

Yesterday, while getting a lube gun at Tree Tools, a supplier here, I was informed they had a tool which fit the description of this air knife.

They said it was the only asset they could salvage from the Large Pruett Tree Service that "went under" recently.

Tree Tools said they heard that the tool was so effective in loosening soil, that Pruett Tree Service had even experienced one tree toppling over.

Was that bad timing? Or over-use?

There is this one tool - used - available at $750. It requires compressed air and a water source. If J. Sanborn replies here - does it sound like the same nature of beast you were talking about?

Tree Tools said that the market for this here is dwindling, because the market here is skyrocketing for a reversable mini-auger that bores 2" to 3" diameter holes.

By the way, thats the largerst Climbing Industry supplier in this area. They even ship to other countries. Its not a bargain basement, but may of the better tree services here like doing business with them.

Their site is: www.treetools.com

Anyway, what do you think? Airknife? - if so, what does a basic one cost? Can it be acquired easily? What if it needs repair? The compressor - sounded big - are they better to rent than buy?

Any casualties that you have heard of?

Anyone tried the auger method?

Mario Vaden
Designer / Arborist
Beaverton, Oregon

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

http://www.air-spade.com/air-spad.htm
Is probably the most well known unit.
We don't have one but a local service made one out of pipe. Then the bought a used compressor to run it. The used compressor is junk, leaks oil, broken muffler, ect. but it gets the job done.
The time it takes to do a job depends on the soil, but in any case it's a dirty job. You'll be findind dirt in places you didn't know dirt could get into, for days.
Time is best spent doing shallow radial trenchs starting away from the trunk. With most of the trees root in the top foot of the soil, and most of those growing up, it doesn't make sense to dig 1.5 or 2 feet deep.

 

[Eric E.]

Mario,

What type of work do you want to do with an air type tool? I get the idea that you are looking for a way to relieve soil compaction before a landscape install, is that correct?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by M.D. Vaden
After reading [snip]seemed to help me nail down an average cost on this AIR KNIFE issue.

One question - how much is the tool?

under $1200, most of the cost is in the engineered and machineed tip that gives a shaped column of air.

Also - in general, how long does it take to improve 100 square foot increments?

depends on depth intended,soil composition and tree/turf roots. Most of the real work is in the amending prosses, hand mixing and whatnot. 10x10 less then an hour.

What is an appropriate cost per 100 square foot increments?

Time and materials. You never know what you will run into.

How much above ground mess is generated?

Lots, expect about 1/3 loss of native soil due to drift. If no amendment then some settling will occure and maybe a depression. I know some who will do the trenching in the fall and then schedule a spring return for topdress.

that Pruett Tree Service had even experienced one tree toppling over.

Was that bad timing? Or over-use?

Over use, even old radial trenching standards caustion about compromising the integrity of the rootplate.

I could see how overuse, super-saturated soils and high wind could come together with catastrophic results. ISA recomends never removing more then half of the soil in the dripline.

on mature trees do a full excavation a few feet out from the flair to inspect the zone of rapid taper for any defects then do your trenching outwards and a way from the heaviset roots. No need to stimulate development around them.

There is this one tool - used - available at $750. It requires compressed air and a water source.

The tools that I have used (Spade and Knife) need on water, just a high vol compressor and hose.

[imghttp://www.air-spade.com/images/NewToolagainstwall.jpg[/img]

this is a picture of the AIR-SPADE® it is heavier them my airkinfe, but dielectric.

The Knife people make higher volume tools too. Both have vacume products, though Im not too impressed with them.

Tree Tools said that the market for this here is dwindling, because the market here is skyrocketing for a reversable mini-auger that bores 2" to 3" diameter holes.

The auger method is oldschool for vert mulch. People have been doing that for years. Good for budget work, but the effect is very loaclized.

here are some of the uses I know of so far

1. basal exam of older trees
2. excavating deep plantings
3. radial trenching
4. utility trenching in the root zone
5. moving small trees
6. irregation repair
7. removing samm trees and stumps
8. clearing basal areas for macro fusion injections
9. edging hardscape
   [/list=1]
   
   

   Anyway, what do you think? Can it be acquired easily? What if it needs repair? The compressor - sounded big - are they better to rent than buy?

   
   I think it is worth the investment, I'm a minimicro company and dropped the $$ on one. Both companies deliver fast and I've seen good customer service.
   
   http://www.air-spade.com/index.html
   http://andrew.hartman.tripod.com/main.html
   
   I get the compressor at $85/day and do a few jobs to spread it out. I may have access to an associates next year. If you use the tool frequently, used compressors run around 3-4k. I've heard of them going cheaper if you fix them youeself. new, anything Diesel is expensive.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Mike, Deeper is better in that you can cause roots tto colonize the deeper soils and get deeper water penetration/holding which will increase the value of localized irrigation in drought.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Thanks Mike, Eric, John !

Eric, for your question, yes soil compaction is a big one.

We also have areas that are not compacted that could be improved. There are many creek areas around here that have the kind of clay soil that is blue streaked or speckled due to extreme density and poor porosity.

Overall, don't get the impression this whole area is a quagmire.

This Willamette Valley is one of the greatest farming areas of the world.

A leading producer of hops if you like beer too!

But we do get quite a bit of rain, and frequent non-extreme wind/rain storms - 20 - 50 mile per hour winds.

If you ever read the book Undaunted Courage, about Lewis and Clark, it mentions how they got pinned down by weather about 1 hour west of here at the coast during a winter.

Its understandable when you live here. But I suppose I'd rather take this climate to extreme cold winters in the NE USA.

When I get a chance this week, I am going to copy and paste all the texts from this thread and another for a file.

Mario Vaden
Beaverton, Oregon

 

[Eric E.]

Mario,

If you are looking to remediate compaction before plant installation then the air tools would probably not be your best option. Most recommendations are to break the area up with the possible addition of soil conditioners such as compost, etc.. I usually dig the bed areas up with a backhoe before planting. The key is to dig enough of an area for furture root expansion. This is usually not fesiable for a large tree. In that case I usually break up an area about 3x's the drip line and mulch that area. Hopefully the mulch area will expand with the tree growth.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You know what else works good, is a stumper.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I do like the stumper, it can be real fast, but they don't like rocks. I understand there are a few big ones in to Oconomorock area.

I wont say that air tools are the endall to equipment needs, but they are very usefull in tight spaces or where more brute force options are not desired.

If I remember my camera next time I move some green ash around a yard, I'll post soemthing.