Alaskan vs Big Mill

[prickettwood]

I am new to this site, BUt I was wanting your opinion on which one is better. I have and Alaskan 36" for about 4 years. But their are some things I don't really like about it and was thinking about buying a Logosol Big Mill. The one thing I don't like about the Alaskan is when your cutting wide logs you seem to get alot of friction with the rail contact, which means alot of pushing(I was using the baileys rip chain but went to the granburg skip tooth chain which helped some but with rffer lumber). And sometimes I find it difficult to change to different thickness when cutting for grade.
I did order the Logosol DVD, and with the Big Mill, capping the log seems to be faster and easier, with not knowing how really easy it is to attach the jig to the log. It does seem easier and fater to adjust for thickness. But the flyer I got, says it will only cut 31" diameter logs? I'm not sure why since the length of your bar should determine that, unless it would couse scant? Any thoughts or should I just be happy with my Alaskan, or maybe move on to the Big Mill?
Matt

 

[stipes]

Wish I could help ya out...

I kinda just got started into this,,and sometimes when goin tru a big cut I start to feel some resistance,,but I will take a break for a min,,and let my saw cool down too...I guess it's more into if you want alot of production...I never seen or ran a Logosol,,so I'm sorry,,I cant say what the diffrence would be..To me,,and money wize,,I'm happy with my Alaskan...I'm a machinist by trade,,and used to workin with close tolerances,,but workin with wood,,ther are so many diffrent factors comin into it...How it gonna dry,,warp,,,the ends crack...If I was to lose 1/4 a inch of thickness on a board,,I's be tickled to death,,but I been cutin mine at least 1/2 over,,and hoping for the best...Like I said,,I'm learning too.... Good luck and hope all works out!!!!!

 

[oldsaw]

I'd stick with the Alaskan. If I didn't already have it, I'd consider the Logosol, but I don't think you will see a huge difference in performance. That said, if you want more speed, go to a .325 chain. Logosol sells bar tips so you can adapt a long bar. Do a search on "aggiewoodbutcher", he uses that set-up and it has worked well for him.

Mark

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

I use the BigMill basicto quarter larger logs with so I'll give my opion. First, I use the sled from the M7 instead of the TimberJig. This is so I can use the crank and not have to push. I found with the "basic model" on large logs, I have to rerig after each cut. This is with quarter cutting. If I was cutting boards, I could get five or six 4/4 without rerigging. Logosol does sell an extension kit that takes care of this problem or if I cut a cant, I could change over to the TimberJig. Thats what they have on the disk you got.

I guess over all the Big Mill is a step up from the Alaskan and the biggest thing about it is, you can keep adding stuff to it until you end up with a M7.

Hope this helps
Rodney

 

[Brmorgan]

Since you've been doing this a couple years longer than me, this may well be a moot point, but have you been elevating one end of the log so that you're milling downhill? If you haven't been, try it, even if you only get one end a few inches higher than the other. Letting gravity do some of the work makes all the difference in the world, but if you're trying to push the mill uphill it's like pushing a car with the E-Brake engaged. If the log's on a steep enough angle, I've heard of people locking the throttle on the saw and just letting it pull itself down through the log while they go have a coffee or whatever. Just a thought, because I also have a 36" Alaskan that I've maxed out a few times in 30"+ wood, and I haven't really found rail friction to be a problem yet. As for the Logosol, never used one so I can't really say. Sounds like having both would make a good team though - one to quarter/cant, the other to slab.

 

[BobL]

The one thing I don't like about the Alaskan is when your cutting wide logs you seem to get alot of friction with the rail contact, which means alot of pushing(I was using the baileys rip chain but went to the granburg skip tooth chain which helped some but with rffer lumber). And sometimes I find it difficult to change to different thickness when cutting for grade.

Are you sure you have log rail friction, or maybe the chain is biting more on the underside of the bar than on the top? This will pull the bar down into the log and make it seem like you have a lot of friction. This will be more significant on wider than narrower logs. See comment below.

Anyway, for rail friction I recommend this solution.

These make the mill skate around on the logging rails so it is much easier to identify if you have a chain setting problem

Changing thickness accurately and quickly using a threaded rod adjustment is just so easy I don't know why it is standard on all mills. And I know some of you must be sick about hearing this but cam-locks make it even easier. Here's the complete thread that explains the mechanics of this if you haven't seen it.

The most critical thing with wider logs is accurate chain sharpening/setting. I found there was nothing like having to mill a couple of big logs to hone my chain sharpening/setting skills. Then going back to smaller logs I apply the same principles and found a significantly increased milling speed.

 

[woodshop]

...The most critical thing with wider logs is accurate chain sharpening/setting. I found there was nothing like having to mill a couple of big logs to hone my chain sharpening/setting skills. Then going back to smaller logs I apply the same principles and found a significantly increased milling speed.

ditto ditto ditto... after all the talk about chain types and friction between mill and rail/ladder/whatever, all that goes into the milling speed equation of course, but from the milling I've done over the years I've come to the conclusion that the MOST important aspect of milling is a super sharp chain.... period. If it starts to get dull and you keep putting it back into the cant you're going to be frustrated, besides the fact that you're putting a lot of extra wear and tear on that mill and powerhead working it that much harder. Same principle as in my woodshop when working with tools. Technique and equipment aside, if you're working with dull or inferior blades, all the rest is academic.

 

[Brmorgan]

And to add my 2¢ to what Bob and Woodshop said, I've found it just as important to make sure that all the cutters on the chain are the same length. For a while I tried just making sure that each depth raker was set equally relative to its cutter. This is what I'd always done for cutting firewood for years, and it worked fine for that. But then I got one of those Oregon clamp-on sharpening jigs and started setting each cutter at exactly the same length and each raker to exactly the same depth, and ever since then both my cut time and quality of cut have improved noticeably.

 

[woodshop]

And to add my 2¢ to what Bob and Woodshop said, I've found it just as important to make sure that all the cutters on the chain are the same length. For a while I tried just making sure that each depth raker was set equally relative to its cutter. This is what I'd always done for cutting firewood for years, and it worked fine for that. But then I got one of those Oregon clamp-on sharpening jigs and started setting each cutter at exactly the same length and each raker to exactly the same depth, and ever since then both my cut time and quality of cut have improved noticeably.

yup, I agree... I sharpen with a Maxx grinder now, but for years I sharpened by hand (I actually enjoyed it, and sorta miss it but to lazy to take the time now) and I got real good at getting angle dead on, but I had a tendency to sharpen the left cutters just a tad deeper than the right. For the first 4-5 sharpening that wasn't even noticed, but eventually as the chain got worn and the rakers were filed at least once, sure enough that chain would pull to the right ever so slightly. When cutting firewood or bucking trunks into 8ft logs that was no big deal. But when felling trees, and especially when milling, that's a recipe for disaster as the bar is pulled out of it's plane going down the cant. So... sharp chain consistently filed same angle etc and you're already 3/4 on the way to enjoyable frustration free milling. Gee... all that's important now are a powerful chainsaw and a dead flat guide

 

[prickettwood]

Actually the chain is not the problem, That has been throughly investigated and is why I switch to the the granburg chain, which did improve the situation especially when the log is green. Although I did change the bar and went to a .063, other reasons where involved for going to that size, That did make the saw very aggressive, But the mill still seems to bit in abit. Now I do like the Idea of adding a smoother surface to the bottom, and I will explore that. But watching the logosol I do think I want to go to the .325. I'm not sure what to about the way it adjust for depth yet but I will explore an alternitive method. Now that link I went to that I think Bobl had I'm not sure how that is like an alaskan, I have a short attention span, But I like how wide it was and have always believed this to be the problem, I think during the pushing, alot of the pressure is applied to the front edge of the rail. So I think I may try to expand the front of the sled. And I that extention ladder it was running on, gave me a great idea for a superfast set-up rail.
Matt

 

[Brmorgan]

If you're thinking of going to .325 in that .063 bar, don't bother. I did it, and I couldn't really notice any improvement over the 3/8 .063. I have three 33" bars for my 395, one each of .325, .375, and .404, and so far the best all-around seems to be the 3/8 with either a 7-pin sprocket in big wood or an 8-pin in smaller stuff. Tried .325 9-pin and it turned that big saw into a gutless wonder on the mill, though worked beautifully crosscutting firewood. Plus, the 3/8 chain is cheaper due to fewer drive links, and will last longer due to larger cutters. Having said that, by far the best I've found yet is semi-round 3/8 .050 low-profile chain. I have that on my 660's 25" bar with an 8-pin sprocket, and use it for taking boards off cants. I was cutting spruce 2X4s almost as fast as I could walk the saw down the cant. Even maxed out near 20" it cuts very fast and leaves the smoothest surface of any chain I've used. And since I never use it for squaring logs, it never sees dirty bark or mishaps with guide rail hardware, so it rarely needs sharpening in the softwoods I work with.

Back to the pushing difficulties though... I like Bob's idea of putting UHMW strips on the bottom of his guide rails. I might do it myself if I can find some cheap enough. What you're looking at in that picture is the bottom of his mill, which is turned on its side. All the rigging in the foreground is (I believe) his auxiliary nose oiler setup. I think he also has a magnetic bar holder to prevent sagging with long bars, so it might be that too. Whatever you do to your front mill rail, keep the front edge square to the wood, don't taper or round it any more than putting maybe a 1/16" bevel on it. This square edge helps scrape sawdust off the top of the cut so the mill has a nice clean surface to ride on. Rounded rails just want to ride up and over any small obstacles, which can make a rougher cut.

I agree that when pushing with the standard handle included with the mill, too much force tends to be directed to the front. I especially find this to be a problem near the end of a cut, as I've noticed the rear rail of the mill wanting to lift up off the guide board. So at that point I usually push from where the crossmember meets the rear rail and keep more pressure down on the back of the mill. Through the cut, I generally find myself pushing from either the top stabilizer pipe (I actually fitted a foam handle over it to relieve vibration), or the nose-end depth post. I quite like pushing from the end post as it gives me a lot more leverage on the mill, though with long bars and big logs it can be awkward.

One other thing, after re-reading your first post I noticed you said you had difficulty changing depths. Not sure exactly what you mean, but I can tell you how I made it easier for me anyway. First, I swapped out ALL the 5/16"-threaded nuts on the entire mill - depth post U-bolt nuts AND the rail assembly nuts - and replaced them with 2" long 5/16" coupling nuts, the ones that are used to couple two pieces of threaded rod together. It's worth mentioning that the OEM nuts are 1" long by 7/16" OD, while the replacement ones are 1/2" OD. This is why I replaced all the other nuts on the mill too, so that everything was a single wrench size. These nuts protrude far enough out from the depth post mounts etc. that you can then use a normal wrench to easily adjust them. I carry a dual-ended ratcheting box wrench in my toolbox specifically for this purpose - the 1/2" end does everything on my Alaskan, and the 9/16" end does all the 3/8" bolts on my vertical squaring mill. Maybe I should take a picture of it tomorrow, at least it would give me an excuse to go fiddle with the mill in the dead of winter. Maybe Bob would fly me down south to work with him for a bit!

Oh, and one more question which I'm surprised nobody else has asked:

What saw(s) are you milling with? :chainsawguy: :greenchainsaw:

 

[BobL]

Although I did change the bar and went to a .063, other reasons where involved for going to that size, That did make the saw very aggressive, But the mill still seems to bit in abit.

I can't see how changing to 063 would make any difference in aggressiveness - I assume you were using 10º top plate even on the granberg chain? But the fact that the biting in improve is a major hint to my following suggestion

What I would do now is check your bar is parallel with the mill rails. If you have been pushing for other reasons, or the mill has been dropped or worn the vertical supports may be bent or twisted so they are no longer accurately perpendicular to the bar. Checking is not easy to do but you could try the following.

This picture represents a cross section of the mill across the bar. Get a piece of accurately parallel sided steel or ally and set it up as shown then look for a gap under then bar. If the mill is bent or twisted so the cross section of the bar is not parallel to the mill rails the bar will dive into the wood faster than the chain can compensate for this. You only need 1/32" difference between the back and front of the bar to cause the problems you are having - the problem will be less apparent going to bigger chains because bigger chains can compensate for small differences. Make sure you check this at a number of points all the way along the bar

If the chain is set right the amount of push should be minimal and if the log is on a steep enough slope the mill should cut under its own weight. If the log is too long I can't always get much slope on it so a certain amount of forward pressure is required but I would say I lean on the mill rather than push it.

Like this;

My elbows are locked straight and it's just my leaning weight that drives the mill. Sometimes for a change I lean on the mill or the saw with my hip or knee - I also finish cuts pushind the saw rather than the mill to minimise the problem Brmorgan refers to.

Here you can see how far apart my arms are - the aux throttle handle on the wrap handle narrows the angle that my arms make so it is much more comfortable than holding onto the trigger. I need as much comfort as I can get especially when milling those bigger slabs.

On the 60" version I added an extra handle onto the mill. Like this.

This extra handle is not used much but it comes in handy to help steer the mill around branches and crotches etc.

I use the unistrut log rails for nearly every slab cut because I find they reduce error magnifications and I can adjust for any slight twisting arising from the previous cut. The HDPE skid edges do have curved edges so they can slide even easier on the log rails.

 

[woodshop]

So Bob... that blue container of yours back there has got to be packed full of pretty slabs by now, no? What are you going to do after that, get another one maybe? I can't be the only one here running out of room to sticker/store milled lumber.

 

[Brmorgan]

Bob, good point re: the out-of-parallel theory. I used to have that problem on occasion just because I didn't know what I was doing or wasn't being really careful setting up the mill. There were a couple times that I KNOW this was making me work a lot harder than I should have had to. Since then I've gotten a process down to make sure everything's square. And it's important to be sure that the bolts on the depth posts that clamp them to the bar are tightened equally from front to back; if one is tighter than the other it can throw the bar off parallel.

 

[BobL]

Bob, good point re: the out-of-parallel theory. I used to have that problem on occasion just because I didn't know what I was doing or wasn't being really careful setting up the mill. There were a couple times that I KNOW this was making me work a lot harder than I should have had to. Since then I've gotten a process down to make sure everything's square. And it's important to be sure that the bolts on the depth posts that clamp them to the bar are tightened equally from front to back; if one is tighter than the other it can throw the bar off parallel.

Yep - "bin der don dat" as they say. If the milling verticals are bent this will also explain why Matt is finding it hard to adjust the depth of his cuts.

 

[BobL]

So Bob... that blue container of yours back there has got to be packed full of pretty slabs by now, no? What are you going to do after that, get another one maybe? I can't be the only one here running out of room to sticker/store milled lumber.

Ws, the blue container was full from about May of this year. There are 2 big and 2 small Lemon Scented gums, a cedar, 3 Jarrah and a redgum inside the big green shed. Outside awaiting transfer into the big shed are 2 more Lemon Scented gums, a sugar gum, a rose gum and a marri. We basically have slabs coming out of our ears.

I have bought a 19" bandsaw to resaw some of these into lumber, we also have bought a 8 ft wide door sander. It uses a 6" wide x 8 ' long sanding belt and a huge sliding/roller tray that can hold a slab. The belt is fixed and the slab is moved underneath the belt. It needs some (er . . . a lot) of work before we can use it.

Gotta go - my coffee making skills are called for.

 

[Brmorgan]

Way to go on the bandsaw and sander. Right now I'm working on building a resaw sled for the bandsaw and tablesaw so I can cut up firewood-sized log chunks. I have lots of nice spalted birch shorts and small crotches lying around and splitting them up with the chainsaw is both wasteful and difficult. Hoping to turn some of them into pens or knife handles.

How much did you pay for that sander, if you don't mind me asking? I went to look at a lathe a guy had for sale out at a ranch this summer, and he also had an 8' edge belt sander from a window & door factory, and wanted $350 for it. It would have been nice to have, but I really had no use for it at the time, and it also had a 3-phase motor, so it would have cost me even more to swap that over. On a similar note, last week someone had a 30" drum sander in the paper for $200!! Too bad we've been cut back at work for the last couple months, I just didn't have the money no matter how much I wanted it.

 

[BobL]

How much did you pay for that sander, if you don't mind me asking?

It was about US$500. It also has built in dust extraction and the motors are 3 phase but that is not a problem as we have 3 Phase power in the shed. The sliding tray frame is bent and it has a lot of surface rusty but it's nothing BIL, the yard owner (Jeff) and myself can't tackle. BIL and Jeff are very handy guys. Jeff is an ex carpenter but like BIL he's pretty good at metal work as well. BIL is a boilermaker turned ally boat builder - he is incredibly inventive - even more than me - and is a great problem solver.

I went to look at a lathe a guy had for sale out at a ranch this summer, and he also had an 8' edge belt sander from a window & door factory, and wanted $350 for it.

That would have been a steal!

On a similar note, last week someone had a 30" drum sander in the paper for $200!! Too bad we've been cut back at work for the last couple months, I just didn't have the money no matter how much I wanted it.

That's also a steal!

 

[prickettwood]

Alright, I ahave checked out the Alaskan, and the bar was good but the whole fram was out of square. And I modified the the adjustments on it and and seems like it will be easier to adjust. Although I still want to make it a screw adjustment. I am going to make a Unistrut rail system, But am having difficult on finding some around here, Lowe's here doesn't carry it. tommorow I'll go over to the nest town, where their is more options. I do believe the unistrut is going to make me alot happier with it.

 

[BobL]

Alright, I ahave checked out the Alaskan, and the bar was good but the whole fram was out of square.

That will do it.

And I modified the the adjustments on it and and seems like it will be easier to adjust. Although I still want to make it a screw adjustment

I think depth screw adjustment is the way to go unless you change the cutting depth often and by a significant amount.

I am going to make a Unistrut rail system, But am having difficult on finding some around here, Lowe's here doesn't carry it. tommorow I'll go over to the nest town, where their is more options. I do believe the unistrut is going to make me alot happier with it.

I reckon it will.

Cheers