Another Saw Comparison and questions about an HD Makita - CAD

[angelo c]

I don't think so but am unsure if there are any mods you could do yourself to increase oil output. If there is I'd like to know about it



What do you class as big bars? I have had 3 Makita/Dolmar 6400-7900's and all have failed to put out enough oil to sufficiently lubricate a bar over 32". In fact in dead hardwood where bars really get a good workout (and get very very hot) they are marginal even on a 32" bar. Even the Chinese Husky 365 copies I've got will pump out way more oil than a 7900 as long as the oiler is maxed out.
To be honest though if you need to run a bar over 32" the 7900 series is probably not the saw you should have been buying anyway.

Another thing too, the Dolmar 9010 or your Solo 694 is not the same oiler setup as the 6400-7900 model Dolmar/Makitas and the fuel tank to oil use ratio is not a good indicator of how much oil a saw puts out. The 9010/694 are meant to run long bars and are tough saws.

Matt,
I've seen enough of your vids to know that you cut green verticle poles of concrete, not trees. Around these parts Hickory gives us a tough time. You would giggle at Hickory. That Red Gum crap you guys cut up should be measured in Nuclear Half-life and not years or rings. The stuff that gets big enough for a 36" bar around here is poplar and oak, the Dolkita oilers are fine for that stuff if green and 32" er so. Sometimes we forget how much "hard"wood varies from region to region.

I'm thinkin you and your mates might wanna fix the makita oiler problem and get rich selling it to us silly yanks !!!!

 

[Andyshine77]

I've seen the stuff Matt cuts, it's incredibly hard and dry. I run a 32" bar on my ported 7900 almost exclusively and I've never had any oil output issues, but running anything bigger than 32" would be pushing the oil pump to it's limit.

I personally would take the Dolmar over a Husky or a Stihl no matter the price.:msp_glare:

 

[angelo c]

I personally would take the Dolmar over a Husky or a Stihl no matter the price.:msp_glare:

I personally see no reason to limit yourself to one or the other...it's like wine or women...no reason to force yourself to choosing only one...unless her daddy has a shotgun :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Tim Carroll]

I nearly bought a 9010 In softer woods I'm sure a 32" bar gets more than enough oil and I suppose I may have higher expectations than some people as to how much oil is enough. I've seized a couple of nose sprockets through a lack of oil and in hardwood with the oiler maxed out I've had nose sprockets on 32" GB Pro Tops way too hot for comfort on the 7900's after sustained cuts

MCW,

I think the conditions and the wood that you run into are way more demanding than most people are going to run into back in the States. That would probably be the difference and you probably need way more oil output.

 

[2stroked2smoke]

Ok curiosity got the best of me. I had a makita 6401 apart to repair a stud, so I went ahead and dissassembled the bar oiler pump along with a spare 372 oil pump that I had. I measure the stroke and bore of the pump pistons at there maximum setting and they are identical. the fluid chamber or whatever you call it on the piston where it holds the oil is the same size too. This pic shows the dolmar piston on the left and the husky piston on the right

Now the difference is in the teeth on the drive gear and piston teeth. The husky has thirteen teeth on the piston and the dolmar has 12. I assembled the pumps and ran the drive gears and counted the revolutions of the drive gear to one revolution of the pump. It takes 13rpm of the motors crank to get one pump stroke on the husky, and it takes 12 rpm of the crank to get a pump stroke on the dolmar. These pics are the rest of the pump parts.Husky left and Dolmar right.

By my calculation that means if both saws are running 9000 rpm in the wood then the husky is getting 692 pump strokes a minute. The dolmar is getting 750!

 

[angelo c]

THAT'S IT I'm selling my 372 now...58 less strokes ...that's junk I'm so peeved !!!


J/K :hmm3grin2orange:

thanks for posting that..not too many guys will go to that extreem to prove a point.

 

[K.C.]

Great Info 2Stroke! Thanks for taking the time. The one thing I have to wonder is the diameter of the oil passages and the adjustment screw itself. If the passages won't hold the capacity of the pump you are only going to get what is able to flow through them regardless of the pump capacity.

I want to go back & look but I remember there was a post about modifying the oiler adjustment screw on a Stihl. I wonder if something similar would work here?

 

[2stroked2smoke]

I didn't just measure the slant on the end of the piston to come up with the stroke. i actually measured the piston travel with the screws at the max position. I didn't measure hose inside diameters and such though.

 

[Jtheo]

I personally see no reason to limit yourself to one or the other...it's like wine or women...no reason to force yourself to choosing only one...unless her daddy has a shotgun :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

:agree2::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[MCW]

Matt,
I've seen enough of your vids to know that you cut green verticle poles of concrete, not trees. Around these parts Hickory gives us a tough time. You would giggle at Hickory. That Red Gum crap you guys cut up should be measured in Nuclear Half-life and not years or rings. The stuff that gets big enough for a 36" bar around here is poplar and oak, the Dolkita oilers are fine for that stuff if green and 32" er so. Sometimes we forget how much "hard"wood varies from region to region.

I'm thinkin you and your mates might wanna fix the makita oiler problem and get rich selling it to us silly yanks !!!!

Sadly Redgum is way off being the hardest wood we have The dust is the worst though...

I've seen the stuff Matt cuts, it's incredibly hard and dry. I run a 32" bar on my ported 7900 almost exclusively and I've never had any oil output issues, but running anything bigger than 32" would be pushing the oil pump to it's limit.

I personally would take the Dolmar over a Husky or a Stihl no matter the price.:msp_glare:

MCW,

I think the conditions and the wood that you run into are way more demanding than most people are going to run into back in the States. That would probably be the difference and you probably need way more oil output.

Thanks for the replies guys and I agree that we see some stupid wood here I suppose I've had the luxury (if you can call it that!) of running 32" bars on the 7900's for hours and hours on end only stopping for fueling and oiling. This has been in green hardish wood such as Casuarina. Not overly dry and not overly hard - I'm sure some of your guy's Oak etc would be as hard or harder. This is where I've come to the conclusion that more oil would be a bonus and that the Dolmars really can't (or shouldn't) sustain any cuts for long periods with bars over 32". This gets even worse when actually cutting compared to just throwing some oil off the end prior to cutting. The ability of oil to make it around the whole bar is majorly affected once a bit of wood dust and chips come into it. I've never damaged a bar or nose sprocket in my 32" bars on the 7900's but the other factor some people need to consider is tie strap wear. Apart from seizing or smoking up a bar this tells you just how much oil you need and a maxed out oiler on the 7900 is "just" enough. Running the same length bar on the 390's with maxed oilers results in half the amount of tiestrap wear.

By my calculation that means if both saws are running 9000 rpm in the wood then the husky is getting 692 pump strokes a minute. The dolmar is getting 750!

Thumbs up on the piccys and calculations
For some reason though the Dolmars still won't pump out as much oil onto the actual bar as any of the Huskys I've run/owned Maybe it is simply hose size or something?

 

[SkippyKtm]

The 7900 does not put out enough bar oil to suit me.

If there is a high output oiler kit, I would like to know about it.

I just got in a 2009 372XPW and it is an impressive saw.

I can see where you are coming from on the Makita with a BB. I would kind of like one of those myself.

I don't know why everyone is saying the dolmars don't oil the big bars well. All my dolmars oil better than any 372 I've owned. My dolmar saw will run one tank of fuel to about 3/4 tank of oil. All my 372's would never use more than a half a tank of oil to one tank of fuel. My Solo 694 wich is just a 9010 with a different paint job, slobbers oil off the bar.

I nearly bought a 9010 In softer woods I'm sure a 32" bar gets more than enough oil and I suppose I may have higher expectations than some people as to how much oil is enough. I've seized a couple of nose sprockets through a lack of oil and in hardwood with the oiler maxed out I've had nose sprockets on 32" GB Pro Tops way too hot for comfort on the 7900's after sustained cuts

Here's the answer to all the problems concerning the Makita 6401, Dolmar 7900, Solo 681 lack of oil output. I've worked on the 6401's and Solo 681's and they all share the same oilers :

<a href="http://s518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/?action=view&amp;current=PICT4731.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/PICT4731.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

The plastic "nub" wears away on the bar oil adjuster (and it doesn't take long at all), the Husky and Stihl oilers use a steel adjuster and for good reason- because it doesn't wear away nearly as fast. I've called Solo tech support to see if they offered a improved adjuster or at least an individual adjuster without having to buy another entire oiler for $89. But their answer was no on both counts. So I figured out a repair, it lasts a heckuva lot longer than the original, and I've been able to remove the replacement "nub" and install a new one when it wears as well. Here's a photo of the repair:

<a href="http://s518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/?action=view&amp;current=PICT4733.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/PICT4733.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[AUSSIE1]

All my 372's would never use more than a half a tank of oil to one tank of fuel.

Both my 365 and 371 area running ported BB's and can consume fuel quite readily.
They will still consume a tank of oil to a tank of fuel.

The 371BB will pull 32" fine in our hardwood and naturally will supply the oil, but it must be considered that even though we can get these 70cc class saws to cut so large it isn't good practice in the long term. Long term it's just asking too much for powerheads built for less.

As for the OP, he states it won't be often he will cut such large wood and as we've seen with Matt's experience with the Makita's, it looks as though occasional use should be ok.

32" will cut 48" from one side.

 

[2stroked2smoke]

My answer on the original question is , your gonna come out a winner on either saw you choose. They are both fine saws! If you get CAD as often as I do you'll end up eventually buying the other one too! Win! Win!

 

[K.C.]

Here's the answer to all the problems concerning the Makita 6401, Dolmar 7900, Solo 681 lack of oil output.... So I figured out a repair, it lasts a heckuva lot longer than the original, and I've been able to remove the replacement "nub" and install a new one when it wears as well. Here's a photo of the repair:

<a href="http://s518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/?action=view&amp;current=PICT4733.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/PICT4733.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Great pics Skippy, can you describe how you make this mod? It looks like maybe a small machine screw with head cut off??? How is the performance of the oiler after "the fix" - noticably better or is it still "marginal"?

Thanks 2stroke & Skippy for all the pics! Saves me time having to tear-down to see what's going on. Rep Sent to Both!

My answer on the original question is , your gonna come out a winner on either saw you choose. They are both fine saws! If you get CAD as often as I do you'll end up eventually buying the other one too! Win! Win!

Tee-Hee!:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:

 

[Andyshine77]

Skip I'm not doubting your findings, but the 7900's have been out a looong time now and this is the first I've heard about the oilers on the 7900's going bad. Maybe this was caused by dirty oil? I sure would like to see this part from Matt's 7900 that would tell the story, as the one from my 7900 looks new. Look at all the rental saws out there, My buddy Nik has one and it oils like mad. Have you had this happen to other saws or just the one?

 

[Jtheo]

I bought two new 7900s about 2 years ago, and neither saw would oil the bar worth anything, and a 20 inch bar at that.

There is not much adjustment on the oil pump, and I just figured Dolmar had caved in to the EPA, and let it go.

I did buy a new Makita with a BB from a member here, and that saw oiled just fine. I did wonder why the Makita oiled so much better.

Maybe I just got two 7900s with oiler problems.

Can't complain about the way they run though.

 

[Andyshine77]

I bought two new 7900s about 2 years ago, and neither saw would oil the bar worth anything, and a 20 inch bar at that.

There is not much adjustment on the oil pump, and I just figured Dolmar had caved in to the EPA, and let it go.

I did buy a new Makita with a BB from a member here, and that saw oiled just fine. I did wonder why the Makita oiled so much better.

Maybe I just got two 7900s with oiler problems.

Can't complain about the way they run though.

We'll see, one would think if it was as common as some suggest we'd know about it. I know quite a few guys using theses saws every day and this has never came up.

I actually took mine a part just to see if there was any ware. From the look of the part I can say it's not plastic, but teflon. Teflon is actually pretty durable and slick. The nob it's self rides on the polished end of the pump shaft, as long as the bar oil is clean I don't see it as a problem.

I've had a hard time lately with people assuming something that if something malfunctioned on them it must be the part product. Things that move break, and just because it did doesn't mean they all will.

This is the control bolt from my four year old 7900.

 

[Deer Assassin]

my hd rental mak 6401 oils dang good

 

[K.C.]

Greenhorn question here - how do you pop that adjuster out? I have not disassembled one before. I can see it there behind the clutch, but how do I get it out to check? The saw I just bought has virtually zero oil output!

 

[SkippyKtm]

Skip I'm not doubting your findings, but the 7900's have been out a looong time now and this is the first I've heard about the oilers on the 7900's going bad. Maybe this was caused by dirty oil? I sure would like to see this part from Matt's 7900 that would tell the story, as the one from my 7900 looks new. Look at all the rental saws out there, My buddy Nik has one and it oils like mad. Have you had this happen to other saws or just the one?

This part you see the picture from came out of a Solo 681, and they are used hard by a logging crew. This past year they are using 2 2171's, a 372xpw, and 3 Solo 681's (Solo just replaced 1 of the 681's [the crank failed] with a 675 now). All 3 of the 681's this year have had the oilers fail and had this mod done to them. In comparison, the oilers on the Huskys are holding up much better.

All the saws get used hard and long, Karl says they run their saws about 5 hours a day, 5 days a week. The entire Solo chainsaws don't last for maybe 6 months tops, they usually have a failure with the crankshaft, or sometimes the mufflers crack around the mounts, the saw goes lean and the top end fries. The starters break very often as well. Some of the Solos don't even go for 3 months, but The solos have a 2 year warranty and so far they have been honoring it, (except they no longer are making the 681, and are substituting the 675 for it). There are some differences between the Solos and the Dolmars though, for one thing the starter is a different design, and probably more robust. The crank failures are possibly being caused by the bigger top end- who knows for sure though- that's just a theory.
The 2171's are now nearly a year old, (the 372 is 6 months old), the 2171's are real tired though, but he figures if he gets a year from a saw, he's happy. He bought the Solos mostly because of their power to weight ratio and the 2 year warranty. He plans on buying more XPW's when the time comes, (yes, His supplier still has some left). Once the warranty is used up on the Solos, he doesn't plan on getting any more, especially now that the 681 is gone.
He used to run Stihl, and they held up well, but He gets the Huskys and Jonsereds for quite a bit less $$ than the 046/460's he used to run, and the Huskys so far have been holding up like the Stihls have been.