argh! stupid ethanol... ways to keep from blowing up small engines

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MMO has 1% to 3% chlorinated hydrocarbons.


also bad for barrels that throw lead around.

-OMB

Where did you read, or how did you find out that MMO has chlorinated hydrocarbons ??
Its chemical makeup is "secret"

Dont know about lead slinging, the forums have lots of gun dudes using MMO without any problems, some old timers have been using the stuff for more than 40 years on their barrels, and they still look new inside and out.
 
Why drill for oil a mile under the Gulf of Mexico? Why use expensive and dangerous fracking? Why are tar sands now profitable? Why is everyone all excited about drilling in the arctic? Why is the UK now an oil importer? Why are we fighting all over the world in every place that has oil?

Ethanol is stupid. It takes more energy to make than you get from it, drives up food prices, uses a lot of water in a time of drought and destroys equipment. But it makes a few well connected folks wealthy and helps the public ignore the obvious reality about oil.

Brazil has had a succesful ethanol program for 37 years using cheap sugar cane stock (long before obama)
Ethanol fuel in Brazil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

from the article: Since 2005, ethanol prices have been very competitive without subsidies,[4] even with gasoline prices kept constant in local currency since mid-2005,[127] at a time when oil was just approaching US$60 a barrel . However, Brazilian gasoline taxes are high, around 54 percent,[128] while ethanol fuel taxes are lower and vary between 12% to 30%, depending of the state.[129] As of October 2008 the average price of E25 gasoline was $4.39 per gallon[130] while the average price for ethanol was USD 2.69 per gallon.[
 
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This is a repost....

What I do..Make my own.. Basics...Alcohol is an octane booster,approx 2.5 points.Use 93...93-2.5=90.5 octane.
I use an old glass 5gal carboy.Put one qt of water..fresh!not salt.....Mark the spot where the water sits with a marking pen.Down to the station,put in 3gal of 93.This will mix the alcohol and water an instigate phase separation.Cover the container,let sit in a shady cool place.Have a few beers with the bros....Come back in a few hrs.Now you will notice that the water is cloudy and well above the line that was marked.So......Ya all still awake?.128fl oz in a gal x 3 =384oz 10% of that is 38.4 oz of removed alcohol....You've got straight 90.5 gas.
Can I tell the difference..not really..Better safe than sorry though...Local shop has 5gal pail of non E-10+MIX 96$.......

Problem is what to do with the grunge.????

cheers
 
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I've been going with the no ethanol in Shell "V-power" theory for about a year. I use sta-bil at the pump and rotate the stored fuel to my truck after about 2 months. Nothing scientific, just superstition.

Would be convenient if that were true, but I have my doubts.
 
Hi, Mike here. I saw "Forked River" mentioned and having spent the day there with a friend sorting through about 30 saws--mostly 372xp's, 200t's and a couple 290's, I now wonder if some of the "Non-Runners" have suffered from ethanol....we always used Silkolene Pro-2, and then Mx2-T until Mobil dropped it, but now I think that certain oils may have preserved saws (and bikes) that have sat idle for long periods. Silkolene in particular seems to prevent carb corrosion in a way that I've never seen with Bel-Ray or Stihl, Etc., So I'm wondering if anyone else has observed this with any other brand of 2T oil(?) regards, Mike
 
Brazil has had a succesful ethanol program for 37 years using cheap sugar cane stock (long before obama)
Ethanol fuel in Brazil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

from the article: Since 2005, ethanol prices have been very competitive without subsidies,[4] even with gasoline prices kept constant in local currency since mid-2005,[127] at a time when oil was just approaching US$60 a barrel . However, Brazilian gasoline taxes are high, around 54 percent,[128] while ethanol fuel taxes are lower and vary between 12% to 30%, depending of the state.[129] As of October 2008 the average price of E25 gasoline was $4.39 per gallon[130] while the average price for ethanol was USD 2.69 per gallon.[
Yes, but Brazil is not the US, in terms of growing conditions or anywhere near the amounts of fuel used. Ethanol here is net negative return on the fossil fuel inputs that go into it.
 
Oh yeah, joined in 2002, 1st post Today! 2hrs and 15 minutes until the 26,000 year convergence is officially over. If we make it, I will try to be a useful member--I think I have to post for a certain time before I can upload Pics(?), but when I can, I've got a few I think some folks will like! Regards, Mike
 
If you are looking for Non-Ethanol Gas in Boise ID Phillips 66 on Overland road just west of Cole RD is about the best, only 87 octane, but that can be fixed with the octane booster they also sell.
 
This is a repost....

What I do..Make my own.. Basics...Alcohol is an octane booster,approx 2.5 points.Use 93...93-2.5=90.5 octane.
I use an old glass 5gal carboy.Put one qt of water..fresh!not salt.....Mark the spot where the water sits with a marking pen.Down to the station,put in 3gal of 93.This will mix the alcohol and water an instigate phase separation.Cover the container,let sit in a shady cool place.Have a few beers with the bros....Come back in a few hrs.Now you will notice that the water is cloudy and well above the line that was marked.So......Ya all still awake?.128fl oz in a gal x 3 =384oz 10% of that is 38.4 oz of removed alcohol....You've got straight 90.5 gas.
Can I tell the difference..not really..Better safe than sorry though...Local shop has 5gal pail of non E-10+MIX 96$.......

Problem is what to do with the grunge.????

cheers

The grunge? Give it to the guys who say e10 causes no problems!

;)

You could always donate it to the nearest fireant hill (just fireants, not regular old ants...)

soak firewood with it, your two years away stash?

Basically, its ethanol and water, I would have no environmental qualms about drizzling it down the driveway or something on a sunny day.

Your plan is what I am going to do if my local non e station stops selling or being able to get non e. It seems real simple to do that.
 
Yes, but Brazil is not the US, in terms of growing conditions or anywhere near the amounts of fuel used. Ethanol here is net negative return on the fossil fuel inputs that go into it.

I dont disagree. I find it interesting that the article states not subsidized and yet is cheaper. It makes sense tho. I am fairly sure that gasoline would be about 8 dollars a gallon if usa government subsidized it.
 
I dont disagree. I find it interesting that the article states not subsidized and yet is cheaper. It makes sense tho. I am fairly sure that gasoline would be about 8 dollars a gallon if usa government subsidized it.

They pulled a LOT of acres out of sugar cane production in the US some years back. Various reasons there, but theroetically ethanol made from that if they went and used what land they could for it would blow corn ethanol outta the water for being cheaper to produce per acre/man power labor hours, etc. Roughly 2 to 3 times sugar per acre over corn, and because processing is easier into ethanol, actually about 7 times better.

The US was just setup for more corn production basically, thats it. They wanted an oxygenator and octane booster to replace lead and then MTBE for somewhat cleaner air, which was bad news once the tried it, so ethanol was the easiest replacement in mass quantities, its a liquid and by itself mixes well with gasoline (not commenting on water contamination, we all know what that does then), and we already were setup to make a lotta corn, so thats what happened.
 
Mornin..Nearest non E station is a 4+hr roundtrip..:msp_thumbdn:We're a bit out in the boonies and gas is......reg..5.68...pre...588...#2 diesal..5.75.Making homemade gas increases the price by 10%.Stll better and cheaper than canned gas.Was some noise about E-15,and I guess there are stations that are pushing it.I think AAA put the cabosh on that.Seems drivers were confused about what that meant...:laugh:
Hey! mike B....Spent my youth around south jersey.Crabbing,stripers.blues...women...:laugh:Loved the summers..winters?Hoo!Couldn't take it anymore

cheers
 
More ethanol hysteria...........

I've been burning regular unlead with ethanol in it since before the Dead Sea was getting sick. Use it in everything from cars to chainsaws. No snake oil additives.

I make sure the fuel is clean and not contaminated from the pump, store it in air tight containers, sometimes for five to six months over winter.

From my experience, I rate the ethanol scourage in the same category as the Mayan doomsday.

More B.S. than reality.
 
More ethanol hysteria...........

I've been burning regular unlead with ethanol in it since before the Dead Sea was getting sick. Use it in everything from cars to chainsaws. No snake oil additives.

I make sure the fuel is clean and not contaminated from the pump, store it in air tight containers, sometimes for five to six months over winter.

From my experience, I rate the ethanol scourage in the same category as the Mayan doomsday.

More B.S. than reality.

Just spend a hour or so in a busy saw or ope shop. You'll get an education on the matter in the first 5 minutes.
 
They pulled a LOT of acres out of sugar cane production in the US some years back. Various reasons there, but theroetically ethanol made from that if they went and used what land they could for it would blow corn ethanol outta the water for being cheaper to produce per acre/man power labor hours, etc. Roughly 2 to 3 times sugar per acre over corn, and because processing is easier into ethanol, actually about 7 times better.

The US was just setup for more corn production basically, thats it. They wanted an oxygenator and octane booster to replace lead and then MTBE for somewhat cleaner air, which was bad news once the tried it, so ethanol was the easiest replacement in mass quantities, its a liquid and by itself mixes well with gasoline (not commenting on water contamination, we all know what that does then), and we already were setup to make a lotta corn, so thats what happened.

Yep.....I worked at an oil refinery for a while. They had spent millions building a methanol conversion plant in the late eighties. The subsidies went away and the methanol plant was tore down. Our government at work then...and now!!!:msp_smile:
 
Just spend a hour or so in a busy saw or ope shop. You'll get an education on the matter in the first 5 minutes.

First off folks who work in a shop get saws and such that have been sitting with fuel in them since last season or the fuel has been stored in the can for gosh knows how long. Just remember these shops also think modding a saw is instant death to the saw. Stay there 5 min and they will do just about anything to get your money too. 99% of the folks that take there equipment there do no maintenence on there saws either. They run them till they stop or leave them in the shed with fuel in them for months and months if not years expecting them to run. Dump your e-gas in your vehicle when your done, if your not going to use it in the next month. Also dump the fuel out of your equipment when done with them or run them dry. Do you really believe the garbage your ope's tell you? :taped: Plus its getting more money into the shops and alot of small shops. Is that a bad thing? There are lots of folks on here who run e-gas and have never had a problem. You also tend to only hear about the bad experience's on the internet or shops.
 
First off folks who work in a shop get saws and such that have been sitting with fuel in them since last season or the fuel has been stored in the can for gosh knows how long. Just remember these shops also think modding a saw is instant death to the saw. Stay there 5 min and they will do just about anything to get your money too. 99% of the folks that take there equipment there do no maintenence on there saws either. They run them till they stop or leave them in the shed with fuel in them for months and months if not years expecting them to run. Dump your e-gas in your vehicle when your done, if your not going to use it in the next month. Also dump the fuel out of your equipment when done with them or run them dry. Do you really believe the garbage your ope's tell you? :taped: Plus its getting more money into the shops and alot of small shops. Is that a bad thing? There are lots of folks on here who run e-gas and have never had a problem. You also tend to only hear about the bad experience's on the internet or shops.

The ope independent shop, the husky shop and the stihl shop locally to me advise customers to not use ethanol fuel if they can avoid it. Seems if they wanted to drum up more business they wouldnt say that.

Just sayin..there a lot of different people who run shops, some more ethical than others. A good shop will do good business, ethanol fuel or not. Just like they did back in the day when there wasnt any ethanol fuel. some good and competent, look out for their customers, some dont give a squat, just want to take their money no matter how they do it.

Anyway, ethanol contaminated fuel (thats what I call it, contaminated), there are two things cant be argued, because it is just data: You cant argue the actual verified chemistry, that is not opinion, that is just hard verifiable act, and you cant argue that all the saw manufacturers have explicit warnings about not using anything above E 10, and as can be seen, plenty of folks can inadvertently get a higher % of ethanol in their fuel, even when the pump says 10%. And thats such a random crapshoot, no one can say that, that just because they can deal with it without apparent issues, that some other guy over in the next state who got a batch of too high is at fault when it borks his equipment. That guy could be doing the same level of care, only using fresh, etc, and still have a breakdown, and it isnt his fault.

This is why I say, if you CAN get non ethanol, do it, its just all around superior fuel with much less chance of causing problems.. just cheap insurance. I dont want to run a real cheap mix oil when for just a little more I can get quality good FD rated synthetic, and the same for gas, for a slight bit of pocket change extra per gallon I can get non E over ethanol contaminated.

To each their own!
 
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Just spend a hour or so in a busy saw or ope shop. You'll get an education on the matter in the first 5 minutes.

Why 5 minutes in an OPE shop?

I've got decades of my own personal experience owning/operating thirty five or more pieces of OPE, motorcycles, ATVs, riding mowers, outboard engines, diesel engine power plant etc. I do all of my own maintenance and ensure any seasonal equipment being stored get's the carb drained.

The only problems I've ever had with pump e-gas is water/dirt contamination. I've never had a problem with clean e-gas. Actually, up here in the north, we'd be in trouble without ethanol in the fuel. Since the introduction of e-gas some 12 to 15 years ago, I've never had a frozen fuel line. Prior to that, it was not uncommon to have fuel lines freeze up.

We tend to blame ethanol for much of our fuel related woes. Dirt and water in the gas as well as sloppy equipment/fuel management are far more likely the cause of many of the problems people have.
 
Why 5 minutes in an OPE shop?

We tend to blame ethanol for much of our fuel related woes. Dirt and water in the gas as well as sloppy equipment/fuel management are far more likely the cause of many of the problems people have.

You will see many carb and fuel line issues in all ages on equiptment. Many quite new, that have not sat for months unused with fuel in the tank. The fuel sucks, less power than E0, less fuel milage in vehicles, asorbs water like a sponge in humid climates, leaves fuel with less octane once it absorbs a liitle water, shortens life of fuel hose and rubber parts, ect. Not to mention a very short shelf life. Plenty is sold with more than 10% ethanol. Many new saws are burnt up with poor fresh E10 mix. We have no E0 here other than AV fuel. Good E10 works for users aware of it's problems, but inconsistent blending/quality will cause tunning changes that can burn up a high rpm 2stroke to the unaware user. The fuel wastes alot of time keeping track of it's age. draining tanks and running units dry if the don't get used for a month or more Sometimes retuning saws with each new batch of fuel.
 
Mornin..Nearest non E station is a 4+hr roundtrip..:msp_thumbdn:We're a bit out in the boonies and gas is......reg..5.68...pre...588...#2 diesal..5.75.Making homemade gas increases the price by 10%.Stll better and cheaper than canned gas.Was some noise about E-15,and I guess there are stations that are pushing it.I think AAA put the cabosh on that.Seems drivers were confused about what that meant...:laugh:
Hey! mike B....Spent my youth around south jersey.Crabbing,stripers.blues...women...:laugh:Loved the summers..winters?Hoo!Couldn't take it anymore

cheers

I hear Ya! But it's been warm the last 2--I'd love to live in Mendocino Co. but right now this is where the checks come from!
 

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