Barber Chair

[MCW]

Strange, we have had this rule ever since I started tree work, more than 40 years ago. TOP HANDLE SAW ARE NEVER USED ON THE GROUND PERIOD.

Why you ask? Because they are not designed to be used on the ground. The chain will always be sharp. I think it might just be plain laziness.

After seeing and handling some of the top handled saws from many moons ago I can see why those saws shouldn't be used on the ground. In my case using my 200T at ground level was a case of efficiency.
I'd really like to know why people think top handled saws are for tree work only? It's probably because most Arborists think they are the only ones skilled enough to use them safely. Many have created this illusion that they are more skilled in saw operation than ground based qualified fallers.
As far as thinking I'm lazy for using a top handled saw at ground level, think again. All that comment shows is that you have no idea of what I was doing or how I was doing it. The biggest market for top handled saws in Australia is ground based fruit tree pruning such as almonds etc and their uses extend far beyond in tree work.
As far as not being designed for use on the ground I'm betting you heard that from an arborist and not Stihl, Husky, Echo etc.
I'd love to get you out to Australia to see how I run these saws at ground level with some of the jobs I do - you'd change your tune pretty quickly.

 

[Stihl 041S]

Thanks for this thread.

Without the drama.

I do relief work after hurricanes.

Will only work with a trusted friend. Knows his stuff.

Yeah. Lots of scary folks wanna help.

Got to know your limits.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Naked Arborist]

Guess I forgot to mention the 120 shot of line around the corner from the hanger. Oh, btw I was rigging tow trucks, roll backs and wreckers at 14 so I know my stuff and then some. Were talking roll overs, off bridges, in lakes, quarries you name it. Trucks, buses, equipment rolled or buried in mud, sand and just plain old hanging off a tree or two after the accident. If it has motor I can drive, tow it or fix it. One of the best riggers I know. Cable, chain or rope. I've worked in scrap yards and was taught much more by crane operators and long shore-men among a few. I dought anything will be dragging my PU with lockers in it. When you know what your doing you just know, if you don't ask an expert.

Had a 3/8 hook pin snap one night on a woods recovery for OSHA via NJ Forest Rangers. The cable snapped right back so I took the chain in my far-head :msp_smile: one long night. Yea it hurt and the head ache lasted for days. Eight stitches. My ass stays out of the way now and always. Know your limits. So what if it takes the truck, jump. Nuf said.

 

[JanThorCro]

I can't tell from here, but I hope you guys been putting dollar bills in my tip jar.

:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[northmanlogging]

I can't tell from here, but I hope you guys been putting dollar bills in my tip jar.

:hmm3grin2orange:

Oh ah I thought that was my tip jar...

 

[CJ1]

Thanks for this thread.

Without the drama.

I do relief work after hurricanes.

Will only work with a trusted friend. Knows his stuff.

Yeah. Lots of scary folks wanna help.

Got to know your limits.

Thanks for the info.

A storm damaged tree can/is the most dangerous thing I have been around. Please be carefull. Learn well from your friend, it really does mean your life.


I have chaired a few trees I am sure but only 1 I remember. A 40+" Oak leaning into a farmers field with a couple of deadmans hung in the top. I was there to cut firewood so the biggest bar I had was 24" on my 372. Made a deep face cut and bore then started my felling cut. The second the tree moved I chickened out because of the 8-10" deadmans hung in the tree. About 2 seconds later sounded like a gun went off by that time I was on my way out of there!! The tree fell into the field and the butt of the tree was 10' or better off the ground with a 4" thick strip holding it. That was fun to cut down. No equipment but I doubt anything I own would have moved it. Oh and the deadmans never moved. I really wish I would have got some pictures. CJ

 

[Stihl 041S]

CJ1;

I plan for what's wrong, or could be wrong.

Still the unexpected that gets ya.

It sure is interesting. Been doing it since the 60s but not as a job. But around experts that were GREAT to watch.

When experts make it look easy, it usually isn't.

Part of my job is turning things over with cranes.

Slow and easy........till you make the move. Then DO IT.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

After seeing and handling some of the top handled saws from many moons ago I can see why those saws shouldn't be used on the ground. In my case using my 200T at ground level was a case of efficiency.
I'd really like to know why people think top handled saws are for tree work only? It's probably because most Arborists think they are the only ones skilled enough to use them safely. Many have created this illusion that they are more skilled in saw operation than ground based qualified fallers.
As far as thinking I'm lazy for using a top handled saw at ground level, think again. All that comment shows is that you have no idea of what I was doing or how I was doing it. The biggest market for top handled saws in Australia is ground based fruit tree pruning such as almonds etc and their uses extend far beyond in tree work.
As far as not being designed for use on the ground I'm betting you heard that from an arborist and not Stihl, Husky, Echo etc.
I'd love to get you out to Australia to see how I run these saws at ground level with some of the jobs I do - you'd change your tune pretty quickly.

All 200t's are extremely dangerous and should immediately be turned in to the nearest climber.


WTH, it's worth a shot....

 

[Taxmantoo]

Some of you guys are scaring me talking about using skidsteers,tractors and pickup trucks to finish off some of these situations.It doesn't take much of a tree to drag anyone of those pieces of equipment around or a smaller tree can come right back at you.

 

[JanThorCro]

If only he had hooked that chain to the radiator cap, he could have gotten an Oscar for landing on his roof.

 

[JanThorCro]

View attachment 300111 View attachment 300112[/QUOTE]

Alright I'm trying to understand both of these pictures, here goes.

The photo on the right makes sense to me and the left photo looks off. There not photos of the same tree right?

I’ll reference the cut to the face of a clock, 12 at top and 6 at bottom...

I’m assuming in the photo on the right the tree is leaning towards 6:00 and the apex of the two open face notches is at 6:00. The left notch is 6:00 to 11:00 and the right notch is 6:00 to 1:30. I’m betting these are done 1st, one notch at a time. Then your 3rd and final cut is from about 4:00 to 11:00 with the operator standing (in the “Run For Your Life” position) at about 3:00.

With the back cut on a diagonal, is it on a diagonal to help steer the tree away from the operator and or, to create the back cut so that it is NOT paralell to the lean of the tree and help prevent barber chairing? I’d happily accept any and all trash talk for a bit of clarification.

And while I’m asking are the cuts done correctly in the Left photo and thrown in as a test to see whose asleep at the wheel...? If it’s legit, what’s the sequence of cuts and wheres the lean?

Every where I look around here we have plenty of birches, 4" to 8" that are still live but leaning with a passion, it’s only a matter of time before I need to drop one or several.

Thanks for the photo’s.

 

[bucknfeller]

There is no one proven method that's going to work for every leaner. In my opinion, it's not something you can learn on an internet forum.

 

[Trx250r180]

The photo on left is the top part ,flip ot over it fits on the one to the right,ijust set them side by side to show the fibre pull,just make a face cut 6 oclock pn the lean side direction tree is going to fall. Then make the side triangle cuts 12 and 4 and 12 and 8 ,at this point you have took the barber stress away,now make last cut a normal back cut,mke sure to leave some holding wood,when hear holding wood starting to go ,thats when get out of the way and it should slowly go over ,

 

[treeslayer2003]

There is no one proven method that's going to work for every leaner. In my opinion, it's not something you can learn on an internet forum.

Very well said.

 

[MCW]

I get very nervous when people start giving falling advice over the internet, particularly with potentially dangerous trees. No matter how many videos you've watched and how many falling books you've studied etc there is no guarantee that those taking this advice can even line the felling cuts up properly to begin with. I've seen a lot of people who know it all in theory whack the bar tip straight through the hinge and have trees come back over their head (in saying that I've even done it myself a few times!).
All the theoretical knowledge on earth does not make a person more proficient when using a saw.

 

[Karl Robbers]

I get very nervous when people start giving falling advice over the internet, particularly with potentially dangerous trees. No matter how many videos you've watched and how many falling books you've studied etc there is no guarantee that those taking this advice can even line the felling cuts up properly to begin with. I've seen a lot of people who know it all in theory whack the bar tip straight through the hinge and have trees come back over their head (in saying that I've even done it myself a few times!).
All the theoretical knowledge on earth does not make a person more proficient when using a saw.

Proficiency can only be gained by saw time and a gradual progression. Every person that I have taught to fall trees has been given the advice "you don't have to cut the tree. If your belly doesn't feel right when you walk up to the tree and you have second thoughts. Walk away. Either come back another day, or not at all." Some fear is good, (an appreciation of the task if you like), it heightens the senses and focuses the mind, but too much sets you up for failure.
A great many people perceive a 12" tree as being safer or easier to fall than a 36" tree. I'll take the 36" any day - you have room to work and room to wedge, anyway, a 12" tree makes a damn good club, so it's not going to hurt a whole lot less
My property backs on to a State Forest. Some of the stumps left by weekend warriors and wood poachers leave me cold. One thing was certain, the tree was coming down. The choice of direction could have been any one of 360! I have even found standing trees that had been part felled and left swinging in the breeze. Yes I did finish them off in the interests of safety - the same area is utilised by trail bike riders and horse riders, so half cut trees swaying in the breeze spells potential disaster.

 

[CJ1]

View attachment 300111 View attachment 300112

Alright I'm trying to understand both of these pictures, here goes.

The photo on the right makes sense to me and the left photo looks off. There not photos of the same tree right?

I’ll reference the cut to the face of a clock, 12 at top and 6 at bottom...

I’m assuming in the photo on the right the tree is leaning towards 6:00 and the apex of the two open face notches is at 6:00. The left notch is 6:00 to 11:00 and the right notch is 6:00 to 1:30. I’m betting these are done 1st, one notch at a time. Then your 3rd and final cut is from about 4:00 to 11:00 with the operator standing (in the “Run For Your Life” position) at about 3:00.

With the back cut on a diagonal, is it on a diagonal to help steer the tree away from the operator and or, to create the back cut so that it is NOT paralell to the lean of the tree and help prevent barber chairing? I’d happily accept any and all trash talk for a bit of clarification.

And while I’m asking are the cuts done correctly in the Left photo and thrown in as a test to see whose asleep at the wheel...? If it’s legit, what’s the sequence of cuts and wheres the lean?

Every where I look around here we have plenty of birches, 4" to 8" that are still live but leaning with a passion, it’s only a matter of time before I need to drop one or several.

Thanks for the photo’s.[/QUOTE]




Just look up Coos bay cut on Google. That should help explain it better. I used the angle cut [same as your pics] on 1 of my bad leaners a 28"+ maple and it worked very well. I was surprised how long the tree held on before falling. I am guessing the 2 angle cuts to the back, break the plane of the hinge so the tree does not chair. CJ

 

[slowp]

I get very nervous when people start giving falling advice over the internet, particularly with potentially dangerous trees. No matter how many videos you've watched and how many falling books you've studied etc there is no guarantee that those taking this advice can even line the felling cuts up properly to begin with. I've seen a lot of people who know it all in theory whack the bar tip straight through the hinge and have trees come back over their head (in saying that I've even done it myself a few times!).
All the theoretical knowledge on earth does not make a person more proficient when using a saw.

I learned this particular cut on the internet and have used it a couple of times. Perhaps we should add a warning label? When I try some unfamiliar type cut, I make sure I'm standing in a safe place and have a safe place to go to. Looks like the tree in the picture is an alder and they are notorious for splitting. Also, be aware that they will barberchair/split actually pop open when temperatures are cold.

Unfortunately, snow causes them to bend over and block our roads, which means lots of alders are cut when it is cold.

 

[rwoods]

Did anyone else see the episode of Dual Survivors where they came upon a frozen dead beaver under the small tree it apparently felled? Even the world's best woodcutters have things go unexpectantly. You gotten to be on your toes at all times.

Also IMHO you need to have both experience and an understanding of the forces at work. Many have cut with poor and/or dangerous methods for years and gotten by. Many have cut trees they had no business cutting due to lack of experience/skills and have gotten by. Both are ticking timebombs. In my 40 years of cutting I have found myself doing both. I am most thankful for what I have learned on AS in the last few years. Ron

 

[old-cat]

Well, hoping that I'd get some firewood cutting work, I hung out my shingle. What do ya know, the first call, a guy wanted me to cut down a half dozen problem trees. First was a 3' dia. Cedar growing on the edge of a 15' straight down bluff. I could only cut from one side, so I made a 30 degree cut down, put a wedge in and it went over. Then there were some Alders about 8" to 12" growing by the river leaning over, some 10 degree some 45 degree and one was split wide open, like Slowp said. So I plunge cut the center then down to about 1" from the side then up and out the top, easy peasy!
My first ever 30 degree leaner, I totally screwed up. It was about a 12" dia., I thought I'd make a face cut first then cut the top and watch it fall. Wrong! I got the bar about half way in and it stuck, solid! So I used another saw on the top and it barber chaired. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get that tree apart. We finally pushed it over with the excavator.