beating them to the punch......

[budroe69moni]

does anyone have any idea of what the spec's
are for asplund when clearing lines. how far away
do the branchs have to be from the lines to be
considered a safe distance????
i ask this question because the tree nazi's are
in my neighborhood and i want to beat them to
the punch!!! i spent 1/2 the day yesterday up in
a live oak on my property. it was butchered about 2.5
years ago so i prunned it out away from the lines. i figure
that i can make better (proper) cuts than the saw
swinging tree killers!
let me know,
budroe

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Wow! "Tree nazis" is pretty harsh. do we need to take the discussion back into the old familiar arena of power transmission? Line clearance trimmers have specs to follow that are way different than the ones we can follow. You should understand that.

Rather than being an adversary, contact your local utility and talk with them as a co-worker. More of the line clearance trimmers that I've met are tree friendly than not. Rather than ranting to the choir, find the choir leader. Your time should be more productive.

In the mean time, you could make up some signs to let the line clearance crew know that they need to talk with you before doing any pruning. Post them near the tree while you're in the process of talking with a supervisor.

Tom

 

[Greg]

Trees Inc. does the LC in my area (N. FL) and I think it is 10ft that they trim. I also have done extensive work in the 2 liveoaks in my yard that come close to the power, 1 more season of pruning and I think it will be just right.
I also used to consider them butchers, but some lively discussions (here or somewhere) has changed my perception somewhat. No they don't do perfect cuts, but like Tom mentioned, they are on a different mission than we are.
A few points that had an impact on me:
-Why is the wrong type of tree under the lines in the first place?
-Why should the city pay to continually have a tree trimmed that I am too stubborned or cheap to have removed?
-Who should really be responsible for the line clearance? My trees my expense?

I have gone away from my hard and fast opinions of LC guys to where I am floating around in a grey area not sure of the right or wrong answer to the many questions related to line clearance... Too many points to argue, so why bother.
Greg

 

[Don McQuilliams]

I hear allot about line clearance trimmming being considered as "butchering". I spent 5 years of my career working within the utility line clearance industry and I have to tell you, your way off base by calling them "butchers" and "tree nazis". In fact, I take offense to those terms. Out here where I live (Seattle), the local utillity company has done allot to manage the trees under and around the lines the best they can.

First, its not Asplundh that sets the specs for the clearance around the lines, that is determined by a larger commission that manages the safety of the lines. Ten feet for roadside lines is a good rule of thumb. In regard to making inappropriate cuts, I have always felt that the Asplundh and other line clearance crews try to do the best they can given what they have to work with. They have to move down the road as quick as possible and achieve thier clearance requirements, so sorry if your tree only gets trimmed on one side but it's not thier responsibility to manage YOUR tree. They are trying to prevent power outages by keeping the growth away from the lines.

To continue on that note, Asplundh probably has more certified arborists than any other company out there. They are always generous contributors to our ISA functions and they provide a great way for new people to get involved in the industry. They are willing to take a novice trimmer and show them how to do it the right way. They try to make proper cuts but sometimes when you work around power lines, proper cuts are not always feasible because people like you won't let them do any more work than what they are allowed to do under the laws.

Why is your large tree planted next to powerlines anyway, seems pretty stupid to plant a large growing tree under or around lines when you know that it will get trimmed or removed as it grows.

Why don't you try to work with your utility company rather than fight them. Call them up and ask for the utility forester, sometimes found in the vegetation management division. Also, if you are working around utility lines and you are not properly trained (line clearance certified) and do not have the appropriate tools, then you are seriously putting yourself at risk for getting shocked or killed. Please stay away from the powerlines and let the pros handle it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[rbtree]

Well said, Don.

Yes, LC work always has the look of being pretty bad, but there is not much else to be done.

Often, tho, they are a little careless and could make better cuts. Also, especially in recent years, they have been trimming to below all lines, including the lower non electric utilities, so many trees have really been buthered. Lots of old oaks, in and near Ballard especially, have been hammered.

Budroe, you know, neither you or any part of a tree you work on should come within 10 feet (or more with bigger transmission lines) of the lines. To work by the book means call the utility company to clear it first. Not that we always do that....

 

[treetop]

line clearance specs.

The Utility Companies set the specs . All are different. Where I Work it's 6ft below 8ft side clearance 12ft above.That is what they want.I try to work with the customers.It 's tough sometimes . I work for Asplundh in new jersey.

 

[xander9727]

Well as luck would have it I noticed the big orange convict carrier at the end of my street today. They were starting as I headed to take finals. On my way home I observed the carnage. There were alot of unnecessary internodal cuts and 8"-24" stubs. If you can cut 8" away, why can't you cut next to the branch collar? I am sure that there are good arborist that work for Asplundh. I am also sure that clearance is all that most of their employees care about. No, I can't read their minds but I can observe the end result of their work.

Don,
FYI the majority of the trees on my street near the power lines are mature growth 40+ years old. The oldest house on the street is 27 years old. So I guess its the power company that put the lines to close to the trees in this instance. Additionally why am I forced to respect their lines and they can disregard my tree? What about a mutual respect. Is it really fair for them to be allow to damage a tree that the homeowner will have to pay to have removed? If they own the tree than they should take full responsibility for the tree. If they won't take responsibility for the tree than they should respect the owners wishes. You can't have it both ways.

My$.02

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Xander,

Like I wrote before, now that you're done preaching to the choir, take the time to talk to the utility company. Instead of venting here, take that energy and your knowledge, and put it to good use educating the utility company in a positive manner.

Railing on discussion forums is a safe place. Doing something in person is a little more dangerous because of the personal interaction that's required. In the end, that's where change will take place though.

You analysis of the employees is out of line too. Even if the climbers did prison time, in our society, their debt has been paid. Have you ever made a mistake and learned better? I'm sure that you have. How would you expect that former prisoners make a change in their lives if they can't get a job?

Tom

 

[xander9727]

I guess I am being a little coarse lately. I don't feel that felons shouldn't be given a chance. I was refering more to the company more than the employees. I know alot of felons that are employed don't get much of a choice. They get forced into taking jobs that don't interest them or that they can't do well. They have to stay employed and I feel quite often they are exploited. This may be one of the reasons I have stubs up and down my street. I hold the company liable for the actions of the employees. After all they set the standard.

I have no problem dealing with people, I am definately a type A personality. I trim the trees in my yard myself. I don't feel it is my place or responsibility to make sure every tree on my street is trimmed properly. I'll gladly do it if they'll contract with me. As most of us know taking care of our own responsibilties keeps us employed full time.

When I talked to the utility company they put me into contact with Asplundh who said they have to follow the utility companies standards. The finger pointing never ends. Unless I have what they feel is a legitamate complaint (one that cost them money) they blow me off.

For sake of arguement I'll call them again tomorrow and let you know how it turns out.

 

[rwilk]

My utility company (SWEPCO) said that the trees are actually on a untiliy easement, and the trees were there problem. They would trim them as they saw fit. If I wanted to cut the tree down that was fine with them, but I had to pay (or do) and don't hit there lines.

Now, I don't care what the tree looks like and when it dies and falls, I hope it takes out their line.

Just my thoughts

rwilk

 

[Tom Dunlap]

So, the only time that you're going to worry about what happens in the world is when it effects YOU personally. That's a terrible attitude.

When the tree falls on "their" lines, "your" service will be gone. Are you guys really concerned about trees or not?

Tom

 

[Don McQuilliams]

I understand that many of the line clearance companies out there are still not up to par with what we consider proper pruning. I just wanted to point out that most of these companies are trying to improve thier practices so give them a chance and understand what they have to work with.

Ask your utility company if they are interested in becoming a "Tree Line USA" sponsered company. This is a new program, associated to Tree City USA I think, that is promoting good pruning and tree care practices around utility lines. A large part of this program is the "right tree, right place" theory. Removal and replanting is a good long term solution to this problem. I also agree that many of these lines where built with little to no respect for the trees but most of the lines were built in the 60's and 70's when tree care was not a real concern.

So let's work with our fellow utility arborists and help them to educate the crews that actually do the work. Why fight with them, after all, they are arborists too. We can find a common ground here. They have a difficult job to do, maybe we can help them do it better.

Happy Holidays everyone.

 

[budroe69moni]

tom,
thanks for the idea! i made up a couple of signs and posted
them next to my live oak. next step is to speak to the forman
when he starts down my street.

for those of you interested, the live oak in question is at least
30 yrs old and the neighborhood that i live in is about 15 yrs
so my live oak was there 1st. so mc quilliams, seems pretty
stupid to plant large trees under or around lines huh? , well i didn't. the tree was there long before the lines came in.
seems that you are getting pretty defensive about this topic.
subject hitting to close to home????

i'm taking on the resposibility of keeping my trees cleared from our neighborhood's lines, you would think that the orange boys would be psyched about this! or are they getting paid by the cut????

budroe

p.s. if i can figure out how, i'll post some pictures of the carnage
going on around this part of florida. it's hard to believe an
arborist made these cuts!!!!

 

[Don McQuilliams]

Budroe,

Nothing personal and I don't mean to sound defensive. I just don't like to see people or companies badmouthed until they have had an opportunity to make the situation right.

I hope all goes well with your discussions with the utility company. I encourage you to contact them before they come to trim the tree. The crews in the field are just following orders and may not have the ability to authorize the work the way you want it done.

Good luck!

 

[Matt Follett]

Well, That was an entertaining string

I add my two cents

First I don't beleive all LC crews are butchers, but with the time constraints and the industry guidelines they must work within, this often leads to over pruning or poor workmanship. Many are not Tree people first, which is not all bad, unless you are viewing it through an arborist eyes...

Secondly I guess I have varing opinions on the right tree, right place thought, particulary with the advent of the directional boring equipment we have today... If we pehaps looked at how much is spent maintaining LC over say 50 yrs, and balanced that against the cost of putting many of our above ground utilities below ground in these sensitive areas (read: old neibourhoods, big trees) we might find that for the hassle of maintaing, keeping the piece and so forth, these would be offset, bla bla bla (I think I'm losing my train of thought.)


I guess what I'm trying to say is wouldn't it be easier not to have overhead wires that have trees fall on them, cars drive into their support poles, and ice break them down???

But then we would be eliminating an entire industry...opps,

but then again somtimes I wonder, does what I'm doing really make a difference either???? or should we just stay the @#$@ out of trees untill they fall down.

Besides trees that 'really' fit under wires are usally shrubs, or understory plants that prefer partial shade, or good soil, or grass lands, or ... so where does the 'right place' part fit in

Oh but I guess we shouldn't plant big trees either cause they might fall down some day and that won't be good either...hum.

Just trying to make sense of my own thoughts and adding fuel

 

[TREETX]

Underground utilities - good idea. It works in other parts of the world. End of pt, end of debate - it works. The problem is the costs are on the front end.

Big orange convict carrier?? Guessing you wouldn't say that face to face. The jail house tats say it all. I agree, a debt to society has been paid at least they are working now.

We all make mistakes - learning from them is the key.

Remember - just because you learn from the stupid stuff you do when you drink beer, doesn't mean beer makes you smarter.

I see a lot of power lines through 150yr old oaks - those must be old power lines for the trees to have been planted underneath them.

.02

 

[geofore]

punch

You may find as we do here that you will have the utility co. cut just 8' of clearance from the electric line then tell you if you want more removed you need to speak to the cable co. and telephone co. (The other wires on the poles; to come cut more.) It all depends on what their contract says gets cut. The power co. differs on prices as to does the tree get trimmed back or removed. I'm trying to say that it may not just one entity you need to deal with on the trimming. They do have the right to remove any tree on the right- of- way if it is needed. Then if the town or city has the right- of- way for the street to be X feet wide you have to deal with them also. Had that come up this year, Homeownner does not want the tree cut, utility has 9' right of way but tree is 10' in, town has 20' right- of- way for street, homeownner has no say so if town says utility is to remove tree on street right- of- way to clear line and tree is 10' from utility line. The tree is gone. If there is a right-of-way issue, you need to deal with it if you want to save tree.

 

[xander9727]

Originally posted by TREETX
Big orange convict carrier?? Guessing you wouldn't say that face to face.

Why not, I got the term from an Asplundh employee that did time. If he's ok with it than so am I.