big wood.

[treeman82]

I have been thinking about most of the removal jobs I do. I find that with most of them, I wind up spending a LOT of time messing around with the wood. I have worked on a couple of jobs where it took a day or two, with several people to move the wood around on a property, first bucking it up. On most of these jobs, a log truck would be able to get to the logs, with some minor finessing. I am starting to think that it might be more profitable on a removal job to just take the wood away with some form of wood truck (with grapple or crane). I think that would increase productivity, because you don't have to mess around with bucking up wood for all that time, and instead just load it up and go.... much less mess as well. I was thinking that with a properly sized yard 4 options for log disposal are feisable (1) sell any good logs to a mill after a good pile has been built up (2) split anything that is not good enough to go to the mill, but is good burning wood (3) bring in a tub grinder with excavator a few times a year for $4,000 a day and grind up any crap, then turning around and selling the mulch to customers (4) with options 1 & 2 being implemented... to take any garbage wood and cut it up on rain days and run it through an 18" chipper. I figure by handling wood in this manner, it would not only make the jobs go faster, but it would also keep guys busy on rain days when trees are too slippery to climb, or if work is slow. There would of course be a small added fee to the customer's invoice...

Ok, now feel free to rip that up.

 

[kf_tree]

1) where is the closest mill to you? how often do you get mill quality logs? 2) puts you in the fire wood business which is a lost cause. 3) if you need to bring in a tub grinder naow and then where are you storing all that crap? is the high yard rent worth it? just get a big chipper and a bunch of big husky's and chip the crap. even on huge removals all the wood should be cut up by the second day.

the idea i like is the log loader trailers. the ins is cheaper. plus easier to maintain. plus their alot cheaper, if it doesn't leave the yard every day its no big deal. once you buy the big equipment you'll have to bang out the big removals day in and day out to justify the exspense. i know some guys in new jersey that have a big peterbuilt 10 wheeler wood truck they load with a crane. after hauling a load out to pennsylvania and having it rejected they never tried the mill route again. they need the truck at the job to make money, not on the road out to PA.

 

[Greg]

Cutting up wood for fire wood, or stacking brush at the street for yard waste pick up is a loseing proposition every time. I know, I did that for about a year until I came to my senses. When you figure out how much you are handling the wood and how long it takes, and physically how much harder it is you just can't do that for too long.
You are always better off leaving everything as big as possible so you make as few trips as possible to get things out.
When people say --- no I don't want you to chip it up I'd rather have you cut it up in small peices so I can put it out with the trash (this is what they ask for right after I tell them that there is no way I am putting the debris out at the street) I add to the bill. I can take a 20ft long branch and walk it right into the chipper, 30 seconds after it hits the ground it is gone for good. Take that 20ft branch and cut it into 5-6 peices so the yard waste people can pick it up I'd have to do the cuts, and then drag out 5-6 peices and also try to stack it so there is still room for next 150 little peices that are still to come.
People that own big chippers, log trucks, bobcats, etc... like them to make money. You'd probably be shocked at how cheap they would be willing to work for you on a sub basis. The time consuming part is gettiing it to the ground. A bobcat can move a huge tree in large peices very fast. You can go from 1 removal that may take 1-2 days the hard way to 2 removals in 1 day with the right equipment on hand.
Greg

 

[Menchhofer]

Agree with kf, you will need to think about some of his questions.

It will all depend upon if your main work is toward removals and if you could get a larger truck or log truck to your location almost every day.

Since most of our work is residential and frt and back yards we opted to go with a small loader to help us move, load wood. This prevented us from hiring another person.

I am not sure about the xtra fee for the customer, how would you justify it?

Firewood is an option only when you can split many pcs per hour otherwise it is a waste of time

 

[treeman82]

Ken,

(1) There is actually a "mill" right up in Brewster which will buy logs. They will come out for a full truck load only though. There are places up north of there which will also come down for a full truck load, how many mill quality logs depends on how much work I am doing in the course of a year. When I was in the area all the time, I would have been able to fill a couple of logging trucks a year. However, because I am at school... my work load reflects my absense.

(2) I know that would put me into the firewood business however it would be a way to keep employees busy on bad weather days, and also it might be a way to land more customers... but that is doubtful.

(3) One of my good friends lets me keep whatever I need to on a property he "controls" which is several acres. It is right next to a HUGE horse farm... so the people over there are used to that kind of thing.

I am not thinking about a 10 wheel logging truck... more like what Brett is looking at... a 6 wheeler with a knuckleboom and a forrestry body on the back. I just see that as being so much faster than handling wood by hand, or by bringing in a clumsy backhoe or articulated loader to a residential property. Again though... this is just me having ideas.

 

[treeman82]

Mench, I guess you responded while I was responding.

The times when I work places that a log truck could not get into... is the same times that I work at places where you could not get a skid steer in due to septic systems, or retaining walls

I would justify the added charge as part of a "disposal fee" for when chips and wood goes... probably a percentage of the cost of the job. Mark Tobin had told us about this... why should you pay for finding a dump spot for chips, or why should you have to pay when you get caught for dumping illegally have the customers pay each time you do work for them. I think he called it as about 10% of the job.

I was thinking of saying to customers who want to keep the wood, that we will split it for them for an hourly rate... send two guys there on a rain day with a splitter and saw. That way I would make SOME money off of moving the logs around.

Also, I would use the truck for doing landscape work; ie lifting and positioning B&B trees, and other landscape materials.

 

[Treeman14]

One question, Matt. Where are you going to get the $90,000+ to buy this loader? I do a fair amount of large removals and after crunching the numbers, I find its more cost effective to sub out my loader work

 

[TREETX]

Know what you mean about wrestling the big wood. Downed a 30" post oak yesterday. The rigging was fairly light. Couldn't drop the tree but I could just flop off a bunch of 10" limbs. Didn't take long.

Flopped what was left of the spar leaving a minute divot in the asphalt.

The heart of my day was cut out by having to whittle this thing to where we could load it. The 4 inch slabs 30 inches in diameter were back breaking.

It is done now - going for the stump tommorrow.

Nate

 

[Menchhofer]

Sounds like you have a good deal with the land situation..

You might be able to get away with the disposal fee but I usually try and include something along that line when I estimate work. I just do not show it on paper. Seems like every estimate I have written in the past with a disposal fee did not turn into an invoice.
But this is just my experience

The other idea of having the customer keep the wood and pay you to return and split it for him for a price would not work around here..perhaps in your area it people will go for it.

I had thought at one time about keeping logs, but found out I could get more money out of the tree for the firewood.

While I realize firewood is not a big money maker, it can provide an indvidual(s) with income (not what we are accustomed) for a couple months.

Also seems as if you would be using the truck for other projects so this may become a viable venture for you.

Just think about it a while before you make your decision...

 

[treeman82]

Brett, for right now it is just a thought. I most certainly do not have that kind of money to spend at this time. I am just curious about this as a possible future investment. I just was thinking about how much time I waste moving wood around job sites and was wondering about the logistics of using a loader on jobs to remove all the wood, as opposed to cutting it up and moving it around the site.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

You don't need to go with a CDL truck for the loader, I know a couple of guys around here with small knuckle booms. One has a trailer too so he can haul a bit more with it on big loads. You can get the last few logs out without diceing them up on small jobs by skidding them to the truck.

Yes, any machine is not cheap, but if you add up what you are using in manhours and effort you will probably find you can still cost it out and not use it every day.

Say the truck costs 48K,
Using it saves you an average of $500
you use it 4 times a month 24000/annum savings

Hust make sure you have enough people to drive all the equipment

 

[treeclimber165]

I can buy a sharp, relatively low mileage knuckleboom truck for $30-40K. Less if you do not mind a little bit older truck or a few more miles. Some people insist on new, I find that a good used truck can pay for itself a lot faster.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Golden Oldie.

 

[sgreanbeans]

What is the weather like up there, keep getting told u guys are dealing with record highs?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

We got rain in Fairbanks Sunday. They moved the Iditarod start to here. If these warm temps keep up who knows what will happen with that.

 

[treecutterjr]

Your thinking is absolutely right. A Crane would come in Super handy. Its faster abs really easier than blocking the wood up for customers to keep. A 60' trunk turns in to 4 15' logs and you ate loaded up and hitting the trail in 30 minutes.
Cutting down to size uses more time and makes more sawdust to clean up.

You definitely won't regret it, " Oh I wish I was blocking all thisinto firewood and loading it by hand"

 

[arborjockey]