Building Up Dumper for Chips: What are must have features?

[GoodFellers]

New Owner/Operator and just upgraded to a 1 ton dumper. The back gate does fold down like a regular pick up. I'm still shopping for a chipper and have never owned an industrial one before so I'm not sure how much height matters or how adjustable chippers output height is. Weight is also a big factor unfortunately. I want the biggest chipper possible for big ash removals and very limited help, but I also wont have a CDL any time soon and keeping GCW under 26K is going to be cutting it close with a decent size chipper. With 1 board on bed: (10ft'L*7.5'W*2')/27 is roughly 5.5 yards * 550lbs/cu yard chips = 3,055 lbs current chip load +16k lbs truck leaves me +/- 6,945lbs for chipper + chip bed mods + additional chips.

-The dump bed has slots to put a 2x12 in but I am assuming I want it higher?
-Would sheet metal sides be lighter than dimensional lumber?
-How important is it to have a roof or tarp?
-If I drive with the bed full of chips and its not fully enclosed will chips be flying all over the road?
-Equipment storage or racks for chipper maintenance, blowers, rakes..etc?
-Any other features that may improve productivity/safety?

I'd really appreciate any insights!

 

[jblnut]

Sharp looking rig !

Most chip trucks have taller sides and a roof to help contain the chips when they come flying out of the chipper at Mach 7. A couple vents in the front of the chip box with screen mounted on them will help the air escape without blowing everything back out the rear of the box.

Unless you intend to use the back seat for transporting humans I'd gut the rear seat area and use it to store your tools and valuables. Easy to make some shelves back there to hold chainsaws and blowers and such. Not so sure about the gas stink it'd create but at least you'll have stuff inside

It should also be relatively easy to add under box storage with some toolboxes to keep tools/gear in as well.

Without trying to sound like a broken record ..... Go get your CDL ! Dragging that setup around without a CDL is asking for trouble. Go through the CDL process and it'll open up a lot of possibilities for a larger truck and chipper for similar cost to what you'll have in a pickup based setup.

 

[TRTermite]

Sharp looking rig !

Most chip trucks have taller sides and a roof to help contain the chips when they come flying out of the chipper at Mach 7. A couple vents in the front of the chip box with screen mounted on them will help the air escape without blowing everything back out the rear of the box.

Unless you intend to use the back seat for transporting humans I'd gut the rear seat area and use it to store your tools and valuables. Easy to make some shelves back there to hold chainsaws and blowers and such. Not so sure about the gas stink it'd create but at least you'll have stuff inside

It should also be relatively easy to add under box storage with some toolboxes to keep tools/gear in as well.

Without trying to sound like a broken record ..... Go get your CDL ! Dragging that setup around without a CDL is asking for trouble. Go through the CDL process and it'll open up a lot of possibilities for a larger truck and chipper for similar cost to what you'll have in a pickup based setup.

The Government won't allow people like me to have a CDL anymore. MONOCULAR vision is an automatic disqualification/discrimination "UNLESS YOU WORK FOR THE COUNTY or STATE". Double Standard in my Book. I lost an eye in the '70s. The USPS wouldn't hire me in the late '70's because of it. Class action suit changed that but by then I was leaning hard to be self employed at Sawmilling and Logging. I Still Can't drive my own Truck Legally and Maybe OP or others are in similar situations, like wanting to Grow Slowly and not go "Tail, Tallow, Hyde. and Hocks into Debt. The system wants a small business to be BIG and require a Crew, Workmans Comp, Insurances. Truck Driver, Bookkeeper, Banker all be intrinsic in the Business. Kind of starts Dictating How one does one's business. Small Ain't bad if that is how you want to start or be.

 

[ATH]

Yes, sheet metal will be lighter than lumber. Aluminum lighter than steel..but also a lot more. A tarp on top will be lighter than a solid top and will allow for the air to escape as @jblnut suggested is helpful.

As to the CDL issue, remember it is what the truck and trailer are rated for, not actual weight. So check GVWR of your truck, then you'll know what kind of trailer you can get. Each state can be more restrictive, but the federal standard is:
*Single vehicle rated over 26,000 needs CDL
*Truck + trailer over 26,000 needs CDL only if the trailer is over 10,000.

So, if the F350 is 14,000lbs (the heaviest rating, I believe), you can have a 12,000 rated trailer (I'd look for 11,900 - heard too many stories of law enforcement thinking it is 26,000, instead of 26,001). But that also means you can't have a truck total weight over 14,000 including chips.

 

[pdqdl]

The Government won't allow people like me to have a CDL anymore. MONOCULAR vision is an automatic disqualification/discrimination

Close, but not quite true.

Can I Pass the DOT Physical Eye Exam with Monocular Vision?​

You cannot pass the DOT physical eye exam with monocular vision, but if you pass the physical in all other aspects, then you can apply for a Federal Vision Exemption. To be applicable for the Federal Vision Exemption, you need to have at least 20/40 vision in your good eye, and 70 degrees peripheral vision in that eye too.​

https://www.foleyservices.com/news/dot-physical-eye-chart-exam/​

 

[pdqdl]

Yes, sheet metal will be lighter than lumber. Aluminum lighter than steel..but also a lot more. A tarp on top will be lighter than a solid top and will allow for the air to escape as @jblnut suggested is helpful.

As to the CDL issue, remember it is what the truck and trailer are rated for, not actual weight. So check GVWR of your truck, then you'll know what kind of trailer you can get. Each state can be more restrictive, but the federal standard is:
*Single vehicle rated over 26,000 needs CDL
*Truck + trailer over 26,000 needs CDL only if the trailer is over 10,000.

So, if the F350 is 14,000lbs (the heaviest rating, I believe), you can have a 12,000 rated trailer (I'd look for 11,900 - heard too many stories of law enforcement thinking it is 26,000, instead of 26,001). But that also means you can't have a truck total weight over 14,000 including chips.

Unfortunately, any commercial driver is required to pass the DOT physical, whether or not a CDL is required.

You are a bit mistaken about the 12k trailer rating and the total weight involvement. The moment a trailer GVWR reaches 10k+1, the driver must have a class A cdl. Even if it is being pulled by an F-150 with a 6k GVWR.

Many years ago I used to beat that little rule by removing the GVRW tag on my 20k trailer. Then they were only guessing about the 10K rule, and I got away with not having a CDL for a long time. They eventually wised up, and made me get it.​

And enforcement by the DOT units doesn't even care what the vehicles weigh, except for excess weight tickets, which would be enforced during the same stop. For example, you might be towing a 10k GVWR dumping trailer with your 14k GVWR one ton truck. Your combined GVWR is 24,000lbs, and you can easily tip the scales at 20k with a full load. Providing none of your axles or tires are overloaded, Mr.Dot won't care if you happen to exceed the GVWR of your truck by 3000lbs. And he still won't be concerned about your lack of a Class A CDL, either.

Now if you have a Class F license with that load, you are still ok, legally, until such time as he can prove that you are driving for hire. THEN you must have a valid DOT physical, and monocular vision makes that particularly problematic. Not impossible, but difficult, as well as less likely.

Now please don't argue with me about that gross vehicle weight exceeding the GVWR of your truck. Exceeding the GVWR isn't a ticket situation. My trucks have been pulled over many times with our 20k rated trailer, and we often exceed the GVWR of the truck. They have never said a peep about it. They did give us a ticket for exceeding our licensed weight, though. So now all my 17,000 GVWR trucks are licensed for 30k, because they might easily end up toting a gross weight over 24k (the next lower weight available). I've gone over 30k with it, too, but then it is ticket time if caught.
9.2k truck +10k skid steer loader + 4.5k trailer weight + 14k in gravel+tools & men=over 38k.

 

[ATH]

Unfortunately, any commercial driver is required to pass the DOT physical, whether or not a CDL is required.

You are a bit mistaken about the 12k trailer rating and the total weight involvement. The moment a trailer GVWR reaches 10k+1, the driver must have a class A cdl. Even if it is being pulled by an F-150 with a 6k GVWR.

Many years ago I used to beat that little rule by removing the GVRW tag on my 20k trailer. Then they were only guessing about the 10K rule, and I got away with not having a CDL for a long time. They eventually wised up, and made me get it.​

.....

from Federal DOT:

Class A*: Any combination of vehicles which has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) whichever is greater.

Class B*: Any single vehicle which has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight that does not exceed 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).


So if you don't get over 26,000 with the combined GVWR total you don't need a CDL (based on weight...obviously passenger numbers or hazmat are different stories not applicable to the conversation at hand). Again, state laws may vary (more restrictive, they cannot be less restrictive than federal law and still get federal highway funding), so MO may require a CDL for any trailer over 10,000lbs, but that is not the federal requirement.

Again, it may vary by state, but in Ohio a DOT physical is only required if you are going to participate in interstate travel with a Class A or Class B CDL. At least as of last February. That is still the Federal Standard too... If you are going to stay in state with the commercial vehicle, no med form required.

 

[pdqdl]

You know what? That is always the way I read it, too. That statement is clearly a "conjunction" meaning that both conditions must be true to require the class A CDL. I damn sure fought with the local DOT enforcement vehicles for years about that. They'd pull out the book, read the rules, and start writing the ticket.

It's been a long time since one of my guys got caught out of license. I tend to be the only one that tows the heavy trailer. In the intervening years, maybe the DOT goons got re-educated about how that law reads.

I'll take that correction with a big smile.

 

[pdqdl]

Again, it may vary by state, but in Ohio a DOT physical is only required if you are going to participate in interstate travel with a Class A or Class B CDL

You are right about that, too. I forgot about the interstate aspect of that. Except...

From the FMCA regulations you linked to, we have this quote:

Am I required to have a medical certificate if I only operate a CMV in my home State (intrastate commerce)? ​

​

Intrastate drivers are subject to the physical qualification regulations of their States. All 50 States have adapted their regulations based on some of the Federal requirements. Many states grant waivers for certain medical conditions.​

NOTE: FedEx, UPS and DHL drivers usually do not leave the state but are subject to interstate regulations.​

Last Updated : April 1, 2014​

​

Missouri even makes the non-CDL drivers get a physical. Yeah. Class F, but driving a work truck. Damned DOT vans pull over a pickup truck with a company sign on the side, and they start asking for your medical card.

They didn't use to do that, either. Years ago, they would ask you crafty questions, trying to prove that you ever drove across the state line. After which they got to write another ticket. I trained all my guys to tell them that we never go into Kansas, only a few miles away. More recently, they don't give a damn, they just ask for the medical card and start writing you up.

Of course, I have all that stuff, but not all my drivers do.


NOTE: I've been reading the Mo. Drivers manual, and I haven't yet found any excuse for the medical card requests to the non-CDL drivers. I'm starting to think we have a bunch of legal-pirates in this area. They do have an extremely complex set of rules that are clearly written so that almost everyone that thinks they are driving only within their state still has to have a medical card. To avoid the medical card, you must certify that you will only be driving intrastate exclusively within a very small set of "excepted" occupations.

 

[ATH]

I don't doubt that there are some who either don't know or don't care what the actual laws are. Fortunately they are the few. Unfortunately, those few still have ticket books.

 

[pdqdl]

Now: back to the original question.

I built a top for my F-550 and have been very pleased with it. I wasn't concerned with weight, so I chose timber for my sideboards because the dump bed is built with slots that allow timbers to be dropped in place. Then I added two boards above that, anchored them with bolts and crossbars to the headache rack of the dump body, and I have some sturdy sideboards.

After that, we built 7 hoops out of fencing top-rails that allow me to cover the whole top with a mesh tarp from Harbor Freight. This traps all the wood chips, allows the discharge to blow huge volumes of dusty air out the top, and it can be disassembled quickly and thrown in a corrner at the shop. It does take a good quantity of rubber straps to hold the tarp down.

I built my hoops with these two items:

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-32888.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/tubing-roller-99736.html
The hoop cover looks good going down the road, and allows us to quickly pop it off, drop the sideboards, and install a salt spreader. I can also use those tools to build other stuff. Ever dent a fence top rail, and then have to find a matching one? That tubing roller does an excellent job of straightening the top rails that get bent when you are careless cutting down the trees. Seriously worth the money if you are a sloppy enough to need fixing fences.

I do some fence repair, and tree branches are all the time falling on a customer's fence. Why walk past an obvious source of revenue if you are already there picking up the branches?

 

[TRTermite]

Close, but not quite true.

Can I Pass the DOT Physical Eye Exam with Monocular Vision?​

You cannot pass the DOT physical eye exam with monocular vision, but if you pass the physical in all other aspects, then you can apply for a Federal Vision Exemption. To be applicable for the Federal Vision Exemption, you need to have at least 20/40 vision in your good eye, and 70 degrees peripheral vision in that eye too.​

https://www.foleyservices.com/news/dot-physical-eye-chart-exam/​

Wish I had been aware of that 25 years ago, I was told in Colorado by a CDL official what I replied in post #3and silly me took that POS's word for fact. Thanks for filling in the real facts.. Now at my age and stage in life I need to ponder if I need a CDL.

 

[TRTermite]

ANOTHER unknown to me about CDLs I was told I couldn't affix a ?GVW" rating on a home built trailer, probably a bogus thought as well.

 

[pdqdl]

ANOTHER unknown to me about CDLs I was told I couldn't affix a ?GVW" rating on a home built trailer, probably a bogus thought as well.

As maker of the trailer, you can do what the Highway Patrol would do if they were trying to give you a ticket: just identify the weight rating of the axles you bought or the tires on the trailer.

I rather doubt that you will have built a trailer with a 10k+ GVWR, so that probably won't matter whether or not it has a proper rating. They don't give tickets for exceeding your GVWR unless perhaps it is tied to exceeding a tire's weight rating. And it won't matter whether you call it a 6k trailer or a 10k trailer.

 

[capetrees]

New Owner/Operator and just upgraded to a 1 ton dumper. The back gate does fold down like a regular pick up. I'm still shopping for a chipper and have never owned an industrial one before so I'm not sure how much height matters or how adjustable chippers output height is. Weight is also a big factor unfortunately. I want the biggest chipper possible for big ash removals and very limited help, but I also wont have a CDL any time soon and keeping GCW under 26K is going to be cutting it close with a decent size chipper. With 1 board on bed: (10ft'L*7.5'W*2')/27 is roughly 5.5 yards * 550lbs/cu yard chips = 3,055 lbs current chip load +16k lbs truck leaves me +/- 6,945lbs for chipper + chip bed mods + additional chips.

-The dump bed has slots to put a 2x12 in but I am assuming I want it higher?
-Would sheet metal sides be lighter than dimensional lumber?
-How important is it to have a roof or tarp?
-If I drive with the bed full of chips and its not fully enclosed will chips be flying all over the road?
-Equipment storage or racks for chipper maintenance, blowers, rakes..etc?
-Any other features that may improve productivity/safety?

I'd really appreciate any insights!

2 x 12 for the side rails, pressure treated as they'll be in the weather all the time. Bolt them to the bed. On top of that, you'll need 4 sheets of 1/2" plywood (or 5/8", a bit heavier) and a number of 2x4s. As the bed is 10' long, you'll first take a sheet of plywood and cut it in half long way, 2 wide by 8 long, two pieces. Take one of the strips and cut it in half, two pieces 2' wide by 4' long. Now build a box on top of the 2x12s. The 2x4s will act as the frame and the plywood covering it. 1 sheet of plywood stands up and behind the headboard, the cut 2' x 4' strips first and then a full sheet of plywood for each side and the top it all off with the other cut strip of plywood 2' x 8' and an additional sheet of plywood for the roof. Screw it all together.
The volume, if completely filled to capacity will be 7.5' wide, sides will be 24" and then 4' more for a total of 72" tall and the square box 6' = 10 yds. Then add the sloped area starting at the roof. still 7.5' wide, 24" tall and 4' back to the tailgate = 2.2 yds . Then add the angled area 7.5' wide, 4' to the tailgate and 4' tall divided by two (triangle) = 2.2 yds. your total yardage will be 14 yards.

 

[ATH]

Now: back to the original question.

I built a top for my F-550 and have been very pleased with it. I wasn't concerned with weight, so I chose timber for my sideboards because the dump bed is built with slots that allow timbers to be dropped in place. Then I added two boards above that, anchored them with bolts and crossbars to the headache rack of the dump body, and I have some sturdy sideboards.

After that, we built 7 hoops out of fencing top-rails that allow me to cover the whole top with a mesh tarp from Harbor Freight. This traps all the wood chips, allows the discharge to blow huge volumes of dusty air out the top, and it can be disassembled quickly and thrown in a corrner at the shop. It does take a good quantity of rubber straps to hold the tarp down.

I built my hoops with these two items:

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-32888.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/tubing-roller-99736.html
The hoop cover looks good going down the road, and allows us to quickly pop it off, drop the sideboards, and install a salt spreader. I can also use those tools to build other stuff. Ever dent a fence top rail, and then have to find a matching one? That tubing roller does an excellent job of straightening the top rails that get bent when you are careless cutting down the trees. Seriously worth the money if you are a sloppy enough to need fixing fences.

I do some fence repair, and tree branches are all the time falling on a customer's fence. Why walk past an obvious source of revenue if you are already there picking up the branches?

A) Now I need the pipe bender...so thanks for that LOL

B) I've gotten really nice tarps from Tarp Nation. Their "high strength mesh" tarps hold up covering a dump trailer load of brush several times per week with no tears and no lost grommets. I think I've have the current tarp for 17 months. Custom sizes. Very reasonable price. I had one that didn't stay glued at the seam and they fixed it (including sending shipping label) in very short order. I called to ask about their recommendation to repair it and they said they'd take care it.

 

[TRTermite]

As maker of the trailer, you can do what the Highway Patrol would do if they were trying to give you a ticket: just identify the weight rating of the axles you bought or the tires on the trailer.

I rather doubt that you will have built a trailer with a 10k+ GVWR, so that probably won't matter whether or not it has a proper rating. They don't give tickets for exceeding your GVWR unless perhaps it is tied to exceeding a tire's weight rating. And it won't matter whether you call it a 6k trailer or a 10k trailer.

I built the trailer in '84. 20 FT 3axle 6 wheel 4K springs (4x6=24K) . Axles were/are 3/4 ton Ford. Surge brake hitch. I used it to haul a 4500 Ford Hoe. A 450 JD with the Mobark sheer taken off and on the Dodge 700 (800 package & air brakes) log bed. Trailer was a Tongue Type Tilt trailer. Then a IH Hoe and 350 JD crawler loader and older 955 Cat crawler loader. Lots of other odd loads. Pulled most of the time with a Ford 4x4 diesel. Only time I got stopped was Tail lights were not visible enough. I assume the tongue type trailer wasn't scrutinized as closely.

 

[pdqdl]

Find out the weight ratings of your original axles, add 'em up, then de-rate it a bit for rust, weld integrity, etc. As I recall, the average axle rating on a 3/4 ton pickup will be somewhere around 3500 lbs. Sounds like a 10k GVWR trailer to me.

A better engineering approach would be to investigate the steel that forms the frame. Most folks with pickup axles are cobbing the trailer together with the truck bodies to make a single axle utility trailer. Yours sounds considerably different.

My 3 axle trailer was factory built with 7k trailer axles and has a 20k GVWR from the factory. We have routinely loaded it with 12-14,000 lbs of equipment and the trailer itself weighs about 4500 lbs.

So far, we've never broken it.

 

[GoodFellers]

Now: back to the original question.

I built a top for my F-550 and have been very pleased with it. I wasn't concerned with weight, so I chose timber for my sideboards because the dump bed is built with slots that allow timbers to be dropped in place. Then I added two boards above that, anchored them with bolts and crossbars to the headache rack of the dump body, and I have some sturdy sideboards.

After that, we built 7 hoops out of fencing top-rails that allow me to cover the whole top with a mesh tarp from Harbor Freight. This traps all the wood chips, allows the discharge to blow huge volumes of dusty air out the top, and it can be disassembled quickly and thrown in a corrner at the shop. It does take a good quantity of rubber straps to hold the tarp down.

I built my hoops with these two items:

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-32888.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/tubing-roller-99736.html
The hoop cover looks good going down the road, and allows us to quickly pop it off, drop the sideboards, and install a salt spreader. I can also use those tools to build other stuff. Ever dent a fence top rail, and then have to find a matching one? That tubing roller does an excellent job of straightening the top rails that get bent when you are careless cutting down the trees. Seriously worth the money if you are a sloppy enough to need fixing fences.

I do some fence repair, and tree branches are all the time falling on a customer's fence. Why walk past an obvious source of revenue if you are already there picking up the branches?

Great way to add another revenue stream! It was very minor and by rotating it you actually cant tell its bent unless your up in the tree that no longer stands... but none the less, I do have a fence rail to straighten!

All the CDL business is a real PITA. I fully want to comply but how much is a ticket usually? Also, is there a place I can kind of get audited to see my weight with cab full of saws, tools ropes chains gas... chips/logs...etc. without being subjected to a ticket if I'm running on the chubby side of 26k? I had my bed 3/4 full of 10ft logs yesterday and she was riding low. Leaf springs were looking close to their max.

Thank you all for the chip bed features too! I have this current big job to wrap up then a decent size land clearing job the next week and then hopefully bang out this project. Lots of snow on its way and with less leads coming in I'm planning to have time to mill live edge slabs for sides on the dumper and then I really like the mesh tarp idea. I'm still young and dumb enough to enjoy wrestling the biggest wood I can but I'll prob need to engineer something to be able to pick the slab sides with my grapple bucket when I want to take them off and load logs over the side into the bed, then put back on for chipping.

I like the sound of the arching fence pole hoops to give it some height... butt also have a tough time picturing it. I like those rolling covers and thinking a make shift one of those or maybe garage door cable and the tarp can slide through its grommets or something?

I'm excited to get to this and definitely checking out the HF and Tarp Nation options!

 

[pdqdl]

Our hoop structure isn't up right now as we are expecting some snow. Then we drop in the salt spreader and the covered top would obviously interfere with loading it. The idea behind the hoops & tarp cover is that it holds a lot of mulch while still letting the high volume of air from the chipper escape. It doesn't add a lot of weight, but can still be detached easily from the truck.

I hang each of the 7 hoops on two little conduit anchors like this:
(two on each side each hoop, that is)

I buy a size that allows the hoop to be dropped through the anchors on each side without any tightening tools, so there is nothing to do except lift each hoop out of its position when taking it apart. Each of these little brackets makes an excellent spot for attaching the rubber bungees that keep the tarp tight.

We anchor the top at the front of the bed nice and secure, run it over the hoops, around the last hoop, and then back forward towards the front. If the tarp is 4 feet longer than my hoop array? So what! I just stretch the tail of the tarp tight with bungees to a hoop closer to the front and it makes a very tidy & professional-looking cover. Easy to take down and put back up. although I keep the hoops numbered as to their position on the truck. I have about 16 inches between each hoop, and the front two hoops are built a bit shorter than the rear ones, so that the whole structure tapers into the wind a bit at the front. Same arch... just shorter legs.

To get your hoops all the same size, start in the middle of a straight section of top-rail. Then keep adding curvature to your hoop with the rail roller I posted previously.
https://www.harborfreight.com/tubing-roller-99736.html
When you get a sufficient arch built into the hoop that is at 7 1/2 feet wide, then you take the bender and form a roughly 120° angle that points straight down for attachment to the sideboards. 7.5' wide = about 9 feet of tubing, add say 4 feet of height to the arch on each side= 9' arch+4' on each side = 17' of tube for each hoop. 1 3/8ths top rail is usually purchased in 21' sections so there isn't too much waste material on each hoop. The extra length on each side can be notched and used to weld onto the other pieces as struts if you are inclined to overbuild your projects. With a great deal of confidence, you can cut the tube to length, then roll and bend to the right shape. With caution: use all 21 feet, then cut the ends off at the desired height when you install it in the truck.

My hooped truck cover has never needed any bracing, and it probably saved a bit of trouble when the guys drove it into a big branch and bent hell out of the front hoops. If I had over-braced it, then it would have damaged a lot more of the truck than just the top-rail hoops.

I'd guess that it takes us about 15-20 minutes on each hoop to roll them out, and about the same to bend the corners for the final shape.