cable vrs grapple for firewood business

[Barnie]

I operate a firewood business and currently operate a John Deere 540 E cable skidder to haul out my log to be processed, I am thinking of upgrading my skidder to a grapple a 95 648E to be exact, It seems like every year its getting harder to run the chokers. I would cut and limb the trees then chock them and haul them out but this year i hired a feller buncher to do the felling and i plan on hiring the feller for future jobs. my question is "is the 648 grapple to much skidder" for an operation like mine, I cut approximately 1,000-1,200 cord per year.
The 648's engine has recently been redone along with the trans and centre pins and the 540 is to me a ticking time bomb, the 540 has had the water pump, hydraulic pump and the winch rebuilt in the last year and I'm kind of worried that the motor or transmission is next.

 

[zogger]

Wow, hard core firewooder there!

I'm game, I'll spend your money, get the grapple! Less dirt in the bark for one.

 

[nathon918]

get the 648... you'll never know how you did it for so long without a grapple!
started here on a 440c then a 640 dual arch, still have that but it usually just sits, and have 648GIII dual arch now, so much nicer than a cable!!
if your just doing firewood, in the future id look into a hydroax buncher, its a bit slower than a hot saw, but definetly faster than a chain saw...

 

[Hddnis]

Grapple is best for everything but steep ground, and then you just need a crawler with a grapple.



Mr. HE

 

[nathon918]

Grapple is best for everything but steep ground, and then you just need a crawler with a grapple.



Mr. HE

thats why they have a winch too

 

[Barnie]

thats why they have a winch too

The 648 I'm looking at has a winch also, along with a one way highway snowplow attachment. I'm supposed to be showing my 540 to a potential buyer tomorrow and I'm kind of wondering if I'm making the right decision as i never operated a grapple

 

[Barnie]

Wow, hard core firewooder there!

I'm game, I'll spend your money, get the grapple! Less dirt in the bark for one.

Yeah I seen how high that grapple would hold the wood off the ground a benefit for sure.

 

[mainewoods]

I'm cheap. I would rebuild the engine and tranny in the JD and hire a tender.

 

[nathon918]

I'm cheap. I would rebuild the engine and tranny in the JD and hire a tender.

thats the expensive way...
that 648 will pull more wood a hell of a lot faster than that 540, and its a one time cost! unlike hiring someone which is a weekly cost...
he'd have to hire 2 guys to pull more wood, one to choke logs, then someone to un-choke tham at the landing, even then hes not saving much time, as he'd just be sitting in the skidder doing nothing while logs are choked, and cable is pulled out to the logs, the only real time he'd save is the time it takes to get on and off the skidder
cable skidders are very time consuming, lot of back and fourth from logs to skidder.
now if he got that grapple and hired someone to limb/buck logs he could easily double production.
a grapple is the way to go!

 

[mainewoods]

He didn't state he wanted to be faster, just tired of climbing in and out of a skidder. That "one time cost" of a grapple isn't exactly chicken scratch. And without a feller buncher, he still has to chase and pile trees to grapple. Either way he could unhook on the landing himself and hire 1 tender, with a skidder. Or hire 2 guys , spend more $$ on the grapple and just operate the equipment. I didn't see anywhere in his post where he said he is looking to haul more wood, just that it was getting harder to pull cable. If he was looking to increase production and do it faster, then a grapple would be the way to go. JMO

 

[treeslayer2003]

you'll cus that grapple till ya get used to it. it is faster and ya don't get off but you will be gathering up a pull instead of just pulling out and hooking chokers.

 

[nathon918]

He didn't state he wanted to be faster, just tired of climbing in and out of a skidder. That "one time cost" of a grapple isn't exactly chicken scratch. And without a feller buncher, he still has to chase and pile trees to grapple. Either way he could unhook on the landing himself and hire 1 tender, with a skidder. Or hire 2 guys , spend more $$ on the grapple and just operate the equipment. I didn't see anywhere in his post where he said he is looking to haul more wood, just that it was getting harder to pull cable. If he was looking to increase production and do it faster, then a grapple would be the way to go. JMO

i know that skidder aint cheap but its definetly cheaper than hiring someone...
also what do you think he's going to do if he gets this skidder, screw off, drive slow, because it can pull more wood at a faster rate?
no hes going to run that skidder like it was meant, he may not be looking to increase production, but it's automatic, he'll get wood out faster, jobs done faster, then on to the next job, Thats how it works.
also never met a logger that didnt want more/faster production, usually the limiting factors are machinery, available lots to cut/competition...
unless its a hobby/his own land, both land owners, and loggers want to get paid!

 

[mainewoods]

Like I said, he did not state that increased production, or speed, was a determining factor in considering going to a grapple. He said pulling cable was getting harder to do. I don't need a condescending explanation of how a logging operation works either.

 

[nathon918]

Like I said, he did not state that increased production, or speed, was a determining factor in considering going to a grapple. He said pulling cable was getting harder to do. I don't need a condescending explanation of how a logging operation works either.

ok well, lets say he keeps the 540, rebuilds it, and hires someone to choke logs/pull cable/ stand around, with only increasing production <5% where exactly would the $40K+ of yearly increased overhead come from???
now he has hired a buncher, but that increases production 30%+ and thats paid for in time savings, so that makes sense.
so tell me how a one time $30-40k skidder thats in better shape, can pull more wood and do it faster, would be a bad choice?

even if he didnt run it to its full potential (not increasing production) it would still be money well spent, to not be burnt out all the time!

 

[mainewoods]

I never said it would be a bad choice. Your words not mine.

 

[Barnie]

As a firewood provider production is key for sure but cutting and limbing and choking logs are a massive drain, I plan on hiring a feller for every cutting patch i get from now on, I have three crew members processing the wood while I cut and skid and i can't keep up to them. so I'm hopping that the grapple will let me get ahead a few loads a day or at least one load. Im going to buy the grapple i think, it comes with two spare tires ,a oneway highway snow plow and the blade has a clam for moving single logs. I'm going to look at the 648 this Friday.

 

[mr.finn]

i think being something new(the grapple) it may be a bit awkward at first but after some time in the seat and on the controls it will become second nature to you.

 

[Barnie]

 

[Barnie]

pretty good shape

 

[nathon918]

you'll never want to run an open cab machine again