Can you use the crane hook as your t.i.p.and rigging point?

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GIZROID

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My partner took me to look at a job that we are doing next week. It is a 36" dbh Tulip Poplar with significant lightning damage from 2 yrs. ago. There is a strip of bark missing that is 2ft. wide and 20ft. tall. There is rot visible from the ground. The five large leaders that grow off the main stem appear very healthy from the ground. My fear is that when one of these large leaders is removed with the crane that the top will be out of balance and one of the others may fail. I am trying to avoid being tied into the tree. There are no other trees to place my t.i.p. We are going to have to park the crane in the neighbors yard and there is no room for a bucket truck or a second crane.
There is a 12" horizontal crack in the area where the bark is missing 24" below where these leaders branch out. There is no central stem in this tree above this point. Please help with any suggestions.
 
That is a VERY dangerous and avoidable set up. Staying tied into the hook/boom while making a pick is not advisable nor is it acceptable by ANSI in 99% of situations.

You cant get a lift, bucket, or second crane to the tree?
 
If your tying into the load line it should not be into the hook itself, but to an attachment point above the ball that cannot slip off(as in the case of the hook). I would consider tying into the boom of the crane in this case. There is usually a place at the tip of the boom, where the jib gets pinned on, that you could set up a shakle with a pulley for your life line tip. Plan to cut smaller pieces. Make a nice snapcut that the crane operator can definitly break off and drop to the ground before he fully takes the piece. Ride the boom back up and piece it out evenly.

Corey
 
There is just enough room for the crane in the neighbors back yard. The yard where the tree is located has a small gate and is so heavily landscaped that it is difficult to walk through. I knew that this was a bad idea. My partner spoke with another climber here in town that said he uses this technique on occasion.
 
Use a carabiner and false crotch for secure tie-in to the cable above the ball.

ANSI Z 133 allows this, but specifically forbids using the actual hook for TIP. This is because there is no way to secure your rope from rolling off.

If it is the only safe way to take the tree apart, you can tie in and remove wood, but you need to factor your weight into the load before the pick, with all equipment. If you are on a big crane with the boom short this is not a big deal, but full extention, gibbed out can really effect the loading.
 
It's been done. Tie in above the ball. Sling the chunk. Snap cut. Rapell down and unhook. The crane makes the pick. Footlock back up, repeat.

It's my understanding that you can ride the crane back up..as long as you are tied in above the hook.
 
I recommend using a clevis shackle above the ball with a frictionsaver through the shackle for your lifeline.
 
Maybe I see it wrong but I don't understand why you
don't just piece it out small from the crane. Instead of taking
out huge pieces just use the crane to position for cuts and cut
and chunk down! The rigging time and pucker factor will be less
as will ground work crane time a little more but safety is number1
 
Thanks for all of the great input and advice. I feel much better about this job. I am also concerned about releasing the tension in the main stem from the lightning damage. I plan to tie in to the crane as illustrated in the posts, chain or strap the stem and use a climb line tied in a running bowline around the stem as a safety for positioning . Is this prudent?
 
There is more than one way.......

I tie into a Masterlink, which is attached DIRECTLY to the hook. I put the ML on first, then my sling(s), then close the gate of the hook and put a clevis pin through the hooks gate. We use shackles on our slings, so there is NO opening the gate on the hook, and have never had even a close call with this set-up. And yes it is ANSI and OSHA approved method for tie in!
 
There is no way to chunk anything down due to a fence on two sides and ornamentals and damage to the neighbors property.
 
Any other tall trees around? If so you could tie a line between the two, then tie into the line with your climbing line. Then you could use the crane as normal.........just a thought.
 
If you can, get some photos of the job and post them. Sounds like an interesting tree.

:popcorn:
 
one idea i've had before was to use sections of 2" steel pipe for a tie in point.
dig a deep hole next to the tree. set up the pipe like a flagpole. tie in to the pipe, use the crane for the tree parts. i think it would work good.
 
I've got to admit, this thread provided me an excellent little Sunday morning chuckle!

Of the thousands of tree removals done with cranes that I've been in charge of as the climber, 99% of them were either single picks or stable enough for me to safely tie off into and remain in the tree as the pick was made.

But on dozens of occassions and for varying reasons I found myself completely untrusting of the stability of the tree to be removed, and rather than looking to ANSI, OSHA, ISA or any other regulatory agency for advice on methods or techniques to keep me safe and alive in these situations, I chose a combination of good old fashioned common sense along with close and in depth planning with the crane operator himself on the technique best suited to safely remove the tree in question.

The unstable or questionable target tree is an unknown, the crane, it's reach and capacities, as well as it's operator's abilities, are known. The smart foreman/climber will always choose to tie off to, and remain with the known/crane in these scenarios.

I've already had my go round here with accepted TIP's on the crane, and will stubbornly repeat that because because a crane's hook is the only load bearing point that also has 360 degree swivel, as long as that hook has a lockable gate and precautions are made to separate the load rigging from from your lifeline/bodyline, say by using two heavy duty locked clevis' on the hook for each, the load and you, then the hook with a locked gate is the smart place to risk your life from. My being here to post this after 34 years in this business would seem to confirm my opinion's validity on this point.

ANSI's boneheaded directions of tying off above the craneball will have you spinning around the load on the hook (which has a swivel) as the crane ball and line spin under load (as they always do) in situations where you have chosen to stay with the load being picked as the only known safe TIP.

Having enough common sense to take moderate picks that are well under the crane's known capacity at any given reach while you are attached to it is a no brainer for anyone experienced in crane removals. Common sense also dictates that any unnecessary shaking or dynamic unbalancing of the tree be avoided at all costs, a little off one side a little off the other, very gently.

In situations like this where I'm taking crane picks and staying with the load being picked, I like to adjust either my rigging choker or the length of my body line (which is always coiled compactly and attached to my saddle on either side) so that as the release cut is made, I am firmly positioned on the piece being picked, kind of like the dumb guy that crawls out on a branch and cuts the branch behind him, but rather than falling with the branch to the ground, he floats away as one with the branch, both safely supported and lowered by the crane.

These unstable tree removal situations, while rare, if they are not recognised as hazards and removal techniques properly planned between crane operator and climber, can often result in unnecessary death or injury for the climber, as well as property damage.

Again, this is simply the humble opinions of an old very experienced climber, that's still very much alive, and loves to put em safely on the ground.

Work safe, and know your crane operator's experience level, you're putting your life in his hands!

jomoco
 
Jomoco ... it sounds like you are saying that you should not tie in above the hook because you will spin around the load line. Will the spinning stop if you are tied to the hook?
 
Jomoco ... it sounds like you are saying that you should not tie in above the hook because you will spin around the load line. Will the spinning stop if you are tied to the hook?


Hey there Wood chux,

I have strenuously argued this point with not only many members here at AS, but also the very experts sitting on the ANSI committee responsible for it's current guide lines.

On the phone with these experts, each of them concede the logic of my technique over their written guide lines, it seems that a few of them have seen or experienced first hand the direct results tying in above the ball when the crane line comes under load, spun tangled climbing lines in relation to nice straight rigging load lines attached on the hook.

It all boils down to the committee members being afraid that the average joe climber doesn't possess enough experience to ensure that the crane hook has a locking gate, number 1, or that he has the sense to use heavy duty locked clevis' on the hook to ensure separation (damage or severing) between rigging load line from the vulnerable body line attachment.

Below is the actual letter I sent to each ANSI committee member that deals with crane use guide lines in the tree industry, with the names redacted.


My fellow tree industry associates,

The ambiguity of the current ANSI Z133 standards for crane use in the tree industry are in my opinion unnecessarily confusing and frustrating to a large degree.

Current OSHA standards for cranes that lift personnel in man baskets located in the rigging section of 5004 clearly state that all crane hooks shall have a positive locking device on the hook gate to prevent accidents.

This is a clearly stated easy to understand Osha regulation that warrants emulation in the ANSI Z133 section for safe crane use in the tree industry.

The current Z standards fuzzy language about tying in above the ball with a shackle for the climbing line and a lanyard in the hook is in effect impractical, frustrating and to some degree hazardous.

Crane hook and block assemblies incorporate a swivel mechanism for a very good reason, to keep their loads from spinning when the twisted wire rope cable comes under any degree of load as they always do. The swivel mechanisn prevents this spinning action from transferring to the hook and load being lifted to a large degree.

If a climber is tied in above the ball and snugs up the rigging he sets on the pick, the ball and cable will spin, this results in his climbing line tangling at that point, he loses time and experiences frustration untangling his primary support line.

By adopting the current OSHA standard for man basket attachment that requires a positive locking hook gate, and applying it to the ANSI Z standard with the simple proviso that a locking shackle or closed solid loop ( both of which are currently available on the market ) be used on the locked hook to seperate his primary support line from any possible damage by the rigging hardware on the hook.

Adopting this method and putting it in clear ( shall ) language in the Z standards will enhance safety, facilitate easy understanding and lessen frustration for the professionals in our industry that go out of their way to play by the rules.

It is further my opinion that any crane being used in tree operations, whether hoisting personnel or not shall have a locking hook gate to prevent rigging hardware from inadvertently coming off the hook and injuring personnel below, be it climber or groundmen.

Your thoughts and feedback on adopting these safety measures would be greatly appreciated.

Respectfully,

XXX XXXXXXX
33 year tree industry veteran


Think about it for a bit, I'm very interested in the opinions of my fellow arborists on this apparently highly debatable issue.

jomoco
 
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