Can't seem to get safety chain to cut

[nomad_archer]

So when I got my saw a year and a half ago I got several 20" loops of RM safety chain with it not knowing any better. Last year I picked of a few loops of 16" yellow RM chain for the saw. I cant seem to figure out what I am doing wrong. The 20" loops of safety chain give me a pile of saw dust with a few assorted big chips after sharpening and doesn't seem to self feed at all. The cutters top and side are sharp to the touch. I have been sharpening now with the NT grinder. Last year I did the harbor freight grinder experiment that didn't workout. The 20" loops of chain are at about 1/2 to 3/4 life left and I have kept up with the raker maintenance using the stihl gauge. On the other hand I have just started using the loops of 16" yellow chain and after one sharpening the 16" yellow chain is throwing nice chips with very little saw dust and is self feeding.

So my question is what could be causing this? I don't think it is technique since I am getting different results doing the same thing. Is this something that could be solved using a progressive depth gauge? Or is this just what I can expect with resharpened safety chain?

I am running an MS271. I would like to figure out how to continue to use the 20" loops since I have 4 of them and would like to use them up instead of tossing them. This fall I plain to get a few loops of yellow 20" when the local dealer has his buy 2 get one free sale on loops of chain. I just want to make it through the cutting season with what I have. Any ideas or help is very welcome.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

when you're taking your rakers down are you also taking the safety links down? if the cutters can't get to the wood they can't cut. got any pix?

 

[nomad_archer]

 

[nomad_archer]

 

[nomad_archer]

That chain above has 3 cuts on it and the cutters are still very much on the sharp side. When I take the rakers down I take both the raker and the saftey bumper down. The grinder angles I am using are 30/60/0

 

[XSKIER]

That sharpen job doesn't look too good. I don't use a grinder, so I can't help with your technique. The top plate appears quite blunt from here. I use exclusively the cheesy little file guides from stihl, and have to be careful not to take too much Raker because my teeth are so sharp. It works the same on PM, PS3, RM1, RM3, RM, and RS for me.

 

[Str8six]

It's safety chain. It's not supposed to cut. It's for suburbanite men to hold against crepe myrtles while revving the engine so they can feel like real men, like this!

 

[cat-face timber]

When did you come to my house and take a picture of me?

 

[Philbert]

My first thought was also the depth gauges.

It can be hard to see from the photos, however, I have to agree that those cutters don't look sharp to me. The cutting edges look blunt.

Your 'yellow' chain will also cut poorly if sharpened like this.

If you cover postage both ways, send me one or two loops and I will show you what I think they should look like.

If you like what you get back we can discuss technique.

Philbert

 

[cat-face timber]

My first thought was also the depth gauges.

It can be hard to see from the photos, however, I have to agree that those cutters don't look sharp to me. The cutting edges look blunt.

Your 'yellow' chain will also cut poorly if sharpened like this.

If you cover postage both ways, send me one or two loops and I will show you what I think they should look like.

If you like what you get back we can discuss technique.

Philbert

Philbert, such a generous offer....
Good on you!

 

[Trx250r180]

that chain looks like a bunch of upside down spoons like it has been rocked ,you need to file past the curved off part to get into good cutter again

 

[nomad_archer]

This chain is now the donor loop. I took this chain to my local dealer to see what he said. The good is I am doing the rakers properly and I didnt blue or discolor the cutters. He said the cutters where semi sharp but not how he likes them. He recommended that I try a different angle on the grinder. 90* is vertical on my grinder NT grinder so he suggested I try 55* so the grinding wheel is laying a little flatter. What I realized is I haven't had a chance to sharpen my other chain to the point of getting similar results.

Philbert lets talk technique now and I will give it a shot if it doesnt work for me then by all means a few loops will be coming your way. I realize now I have a lot to learn. Thanks for all the help and direction guys little did I know sharpening correctly is an art form

 

[nomad_archer]

Wow did i make a mess out of that chain. So I just colored the cutters with a sharpie and ran a round file through using a file guide. It took 11-14 strokes on the 2 cutters I did to remove all of the sharpie and reshape the cutter. The cutters I did are really sharp now. Using the grinder it looks like an angle around 50 matches up well. I want to do the rest of the chain by hand and see how it cuts. This is my first attempt at hand filing. I need to start some where. Wish me luck.

 

[xtremez]

You'll get it figured out, it just takes time. Some guys talk **** on safety chain for whatever reason but when sharpened properly it'll cut just as good as regular chains. Ive got a handful of safety mixed in with my other chains because I got a good deal on them. Never bothered me and they still put plenty of wood on the ground.

 

[Philbert]

Philbert lets talk technique now and I will give it a shot if it doesnt work for me then by all means a few loops will be coming your way.

Here is my approach (along with some discussion): http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/chain-filing-height.252582/

Also: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philbert-meets-the-stihl-rs3.202969/

And: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-chain-salvage-challenge.245369/

Some guys talk **** on safety chain for whatever reason but when sharpened properly it'll cut just as good as regular chains.

+1 for most situations. Unless you are bore cutting, or using a really long bar, or doing high volume performance cutting. For most guys bucking firewood, low-kickback, semi-chisel chain works fine if properly sharpened.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

he suggested I try 55* so the grinding wheel is laying a little flatter.

Using the grinder it looks like an angle around 50 matches up well.

'Standard' angles have traditionally been 30/60/0 for semi chisel chain. Oregon's current charts seem to lean more towards a 55 degree grinder head tilt. 50 degrees is pretty extreme - chains with shallower edges may be 'sharper' and cut faster, but will dull quicker too.

I would stick with the 55 or 60 degrees and focus on: dressing your wheels; and deciding what you want your cutters to look like before you shape/grind them. If you are not getting that shape, figure out what you have to do.

Philbert

 

[CapitaineHaddoc]

I HATE Stihl safety chain. I do not know why, but these chains are just crap. For cons, I love Oregon LPX.

 

[lfnh]

Chain pic on the post looks dry as a bone.
Know nothing bout that saw model, but seeems it could stand more oiling.

 

[nomad_archer]

'Standard' angles have traditionally been 30/60/0 for semi chisel chain. Oregon's current charts seem to lean more towards a 55 degree grinder head tilt. 50 degrees is pretty extreme - chains with shallower edges may be 'sharper' and cut faster, but will dull quicker too.

I would stick with the 55 or 60 degrees and focus on: dressing your wheels; and deciding what you want your cutters to look like before you shape/grind them. If you are not getting that shape, figure out what you have to do.

Philbert

So I will try 55 degrees. I want to get an angle finder to make sure what is marked on the grinder as 60 degrees or 55 degrees is actually 60 or 55 degrees. Now that I have hand filed a few cutters I like what they look like after the round file when through them so that is what I want to shoot for with the grinder.

 

[longbowch]

Unless you have a lot of chains to do why don't you stick with hand filing? Not telling you what to do just thinking out loud.
Usually when I'm done cutting I will clean up the saw(s) and sharpen the chains so its ready to go for the next time.