Central Boiler Temperature too high on furance

[LadyToysDream]

Hi

Not sure if my title explains my problem or not.

Furance installed summer 2008, started up Sept 1/08. First 2 months were rough till we fiqured out a wiring problem inside the house.
Since then things were going along good. Plenty of heat and inside
thermostat set at 78 most of the time. Far end of house where no
register is in the new room, is at 70 degrees.

Well a few days ago, he notices the furnace is staying between 196 and 200, and won't drop down. Makes sure to check everything. Set point is 185 which is a factory setting. Call the dealer and he says make sure door and damper are okay. Yup, they are. Then he thinks it's because we are not using a lot of our heat...it's going back to the furance, still hot, and each time it runs through again, it keeps building more heat. Culmative effect. Tells me to tell him to put less wood in the furnace. Keep the coals down, etc.
Okay. So after putting no wood in it for a day, he sees the temp drop down. All good. So he puts only a few sticks in the furnace at a time.
Yesterday he tells me we are at high temps again. This morning, we are at 200 and he tells me to to fill the washer load with hot water only. To draw down some of the heat.
Just over 1250 sq ft here. Central NY. Cold weather. Two adults in the house. And it appears maybe our furance is too efficent ?
The furnace is set up for a second run for the garage but we don't have that line laid yet. Should we be doing that ?

Any one else with a smiliar problem ?

 

[projectsho89]

Then he thinks it's because we are not using a lot of our heat...it's going back to the furance, still hot, and each time it runs through again, it keeps building more heat. Culmative effect.

Impossible. You can't get more heat into the boiler because you didn't extract enough on the load side. Time to wave the BS flag on him. They don't work that way and he was blowing you off either because he didn't want to mess with it or he didn't know how to diagnose the problem. Additional heat only comes from the combustion of additional fuel.

Either you have an air leak that is allowing uncontrolled air to enter the firebox or the temperature controller has failed.

Load up stuff you know will smoke like crazy initially, let if fire a few minutes then shut down the damper and blower (if equipped), and watch the smoke plume. If there is any air getting into the firebox the smoke plume will have noticeable upward velocity. It should just meander out the stack if there is no additional draw.

If that doesn't indicate a problem, then the problem is likely the controller. Perhaps the sensor has become mispositioned. Otherwise, the unit has gone "south" and is not properly regulating the damper relative to the water temp.

Have you turned the unit down to 175 or so and see ift is gone out of calibration by 10-15 degrees?

This should give a few things to look at.

Steve

 

[LadyToysDream]

He did quiz me quite a bit about the door.
Tells me it takes 2 hands to close it, especially for a female.
Well we both can close the door one handed.
And it appears to be a solid snug fit.
The damper seems to be working.

Furnace has a 25 yr warranty.

Guess I need to be calling the dealer back again.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Might have a couple of things to look at for you.

I have a Central Boiler as well so at least we have that in common. I had mine ramp up in temps about 3 years ago and that time it ended up being the damper door. It had warped, just slightly and you could see it when taken of and set on a flat piece of steel. When I smashed it flat it still would not close tightly and noticed the attachment holes had "wallered" out. Called the dealer and they replaced it for free. Problem solved.

This year on start up it started acting funny and ramping up in temp again. Difference this time was that the temp went up and down FAST. Faster than I'd ever seen and didn't make any sense as it went down even when no zone valves opened, just sitting idle it did it. Called the dealer and he said it's either a bad board or loose/bad contact wire connection. I shut the furncae down and loosened and tightened every wire on the board on the inside panel(on stove) NONE seemed loose but did them all anyway. Turned it back on and it was fixed. Again, I'd only suspect this IF your temp on the gauge moved up and down fatser than it had in years past. I'm talking a degree every 30 seconds or so. Hope this helps and you can get an "easy" fix.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

My problem has been the damper door solenoid...sticks open!..lubricated it well, checked door fit. The solenoid does not want to let loose and release sometimes. I also have a 5036, small house/shop. I've seen mine ramp up high, around 195-200, when it is packed full, low load, like yesterday, with 57 deg. temps. Check the damper door / lip on main door for any creosote or crud buildup.

 

[November Wolf]

Its has got to be either:

1.Bad door seal
2.Damper not shutting all the way
3.Solenoid
4.Bad temp controller

 

[blakey]

My problem has been the damper door solenoid...sticks open!..lubricated it well, checked door fit. The solenoid does not want to let loose and release sometimes. I also have a 5036, small house/shop. I've seen mine ramp up high, around 195-200, when it is packed full, low load, like yesterday, with 57 deg. temps. Check the damper door / lip on main door for any creosote or crud buildup.

What did you lubricate it with? Central Boiler calls for using WD40, I actually don't lubricate mine at all and it seems to work fine. I did have to replace my solenoid after about 5 yrs but that was because it wouldn't open and was blowing the fuse. Never had it stick open.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Started with WD-40, ended up using 3-in-one

 

[LadyToysDream]

Update,
Well hubby did what the dealer suggested.
He put less wood in, took out the coals, let the furnace calm down.
Furnace worked okay. Then again, it started steaming.
Calmed down. Yesterday he tells me it's acting really good.
Whew, I say. This morning, he comes home from work to get his
breakfast, and tells me the furnace has been steaming since 3 am
when he got up to get ready for work.
So I get on the phone and am waiting for the dealer to call me back.
This is getting real old. We don't think it is the door, but anything is
possible. We think it might be the controller for the heat.
He did take the hot coals out before he went back to work. He was
not happy.

 

[LadyToysDream]

So can I use the information from this thread ?

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=78593

 

[LadyToysDream]

Okay, I just got off the phone with a factory tech.
He tells me it's either the selenoid gone bad which they replace for free, but we have to pay the dealer labor because it's something the homeowner can do himself. But first time doing something, it does take a few minutes to fiqure it out and find where things are, etc.
Other problem it can be he tells me is that the temp controller has gone bad. That they will replace for free if under 2 yrs old, and labor will not cost us anything. There is a probe behind that if it is not in correct position he tells me will give a error reading.
So yes it's under a year old. I think the dealer should come here and fiqure it out for us. I don't want to void our warranty if hubby accidently does something wrong.
Very frustrating waiting on the dealer to call back. A father and son operation and one of them needs to at least call me back real soon.
This is getting so old, so fast.
My hubby is very good with electric stuff, but he should not have to in this situation.
Yes we have a propane furnace we can use for back up, but I so don't want to go there. I want to downsize them next month, and get them gone. Buy our own tank/s instead.

 

[Scootermsp]

cleanout?

Did you check the round chimney cleanout on the back of the unit to be sure it's on tight? If it's loose or missing it could allow excessive air into the firebox.

 

[John D]

Your hubby is goingto have to take some time,and diagnose the problem,sit by the furnace,and watch the damper door,as it hits shut off temp,is it shutting? If so is it sealing off. There is no way the boiler is going to overheat if it isnt getting air! You have an air leak somewhere.Dont feel bad,it could be worse,you could have Shaver like me,I wish I only had your problem with mine.I spent the better part of the first 2 weeks babysitting this OWB,and working on it,even though it was brand new.

 

[Zodiac45]

Hi

Central Boiler Temperature too high on furance

Not sure if my title explains my problem or not.

:monkey: Well.....Blaming it on France is.....er.....not the problem. Then again...if "furance" is a new "OWB designer drug" cleverly blended into your fuel supply, then you may have too send your boiler too rehab. At rehab, I'm guessing that you'll have (as most the others have stated) an air leak problem of the gasket or damper (controller, solenoid, etc).. type. I think Kevin in O is right on the money. Let us know when it's fixed what the deal was. Good Luck and here's hoping it's a cheap and easy fix.

 

[Marklambert61]

Find a new dealer

You have an air leak....

After the first call you dealer should have been out to solve your problem not just giving you lip service on the phone.

Mark

 

[pipe76]

Are you sure your pumps are circulating all the time, and not just when the house is calling for heat? If you don't circulate the pumps all the time, the temp will get to 196 to 200 when sitting idle(heat builds up , water's not moving, and when the house calls for heat, the temp will drop down to below 175, and solinoid will kick open and give it more air to burn. the solinoid will shut off at 185, and the temp will rise again.

 

[Slick]

That's a good point about the pumps....the one steaming incident I had with my CB 5036 was after leaving for xmas this year, being a new OWB user (it had been running for like a week) I loaded it full and turn off all the heat exchangers other than one and that room is really insulated.... the system coudln't get rid of the heat fast enough and it got to 200 and was steaming when got back 3 days later..luckily not enough water was gone to hurt anything...I turned on the furnaces and water temp came right down but that's a good point...you either have an air leak so your making lots of heat or you just not getting enough heat out of the water and it's overshooting the set temp...

 

[LadyToysDream]

I don't seem to be saying the right words to the dealer to get him out here to help us with this problem. He seems to think we can fiqure it out by ourselves.
The guy who helped hubby with the inside the house, part of this installation called and talked to hubby this morning. He seems to think now, the furnace is too big for our house. We should have gotten the size smaller than this one. Which is what I questioned when we bought this furnace.
We did mention that we might want to heat the garage when we bought the furnace and the furnace does have the right parts on it so when and if we run the second line, all we need is some pex pipe, and the heater to hang in the garage.
Only thing we have come up with , was hubby finally dropped the temperature this morning, to 175 instead of the factory setting of 185. The last few days the furnace is behaving again.
I don't think it's the door, because as I mentioned to the husband, if it was the door, it would seem the problem would be getting worse.
I am thinking it might be that controller. My understanding is that the probe behind it if not seated in place correctly, might be giving a error reading to the temp controller.
Since Sept the furnace has boiled over once, and has had a episode of steaming at least once and now this past week, had been acting up again.

The run for the pex pipe is only 26' before it goes into the heat exchanger on the hot water heater, and then into the exchanger for the inside furnace and then back out to the outside furnace 26', so a very short run.

I fiqure when I get mad again, the dealer will be getting a call from the factory about our problem. The factory told me, we should be dealing with the dealer. But if the dealer is too busy to fit us into his schedule, then maybe the factory can light a fire under him.

Thanks for all the replies

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

I don't seem to be saying the right words to the dealer to get him out here to help us with this problem. He seems to think we can fiqure it out by ourselves.
The guy who helped hubby with the inside the house, part of this installation called and talked to hubby this morning. He seems to think now, the furnace is too big for our house. We should have gotten the size smaller than this one. Which is what I questioned when we bought this furnace.
We did mention that we might want to heat the garage when we bought the furnace and the furnace does have the right parts on it so when and if we run the second line, all we need is some pex pipe, and the heater to hang in the garage.
Only thing we have come up with , was hubby finally dropped the temperature this morning, to 175 instead of the factory setting of 185. The last few days the furnace is behaving again.
I don't think it's the door, because as I mentioned to the husband, if it was the door, it would seem the problem would be getting worse.
I am thinking it might be that controller. My understanding is that the probe behind it if not seated in place correctly, might be giving a error reading to the temp controller.
Since Sept the furnace has boiled over once, and has had a episode of steaming at least once and now this past week, had been acting up again.

The run for the pex pipe is only 26' before it goes into the heat exchanger on the hot water heater, and then into the exchanger for the inside furnace and then back out to the outside furnace 26', so a very short run.

I fiqure when I get mad again, the dealer will be getting a call from the factory about our problem. The factory told me, we should be dealing with the dealer. But if the dealer is too busy to fit us into his schedule, then maybe the factory can light a fire under him.

Thanks for all the replies

Sounds like you found yourself a BAGA dealer, Buy And Go Away. Got his payday and he's done with the sale. I'm glad my dealer isn't like that as he's smart enough to know his buyers are HIS best salesmen he'll get.

Yes, you need to show him the above paragraph.

Your furnace being too big is NOT the problem. The only thing bad about a bigger unit if you didn't need it is the added price. It Should NOT go up in temp even if you have it loaded completely with wood. It chokes air off to not allow it.

My boiler can have a raging fire and it fill shut down and at MOST go up one degree. It will NOT go up if sealed up. Sounds like you ruled that out but setting the temp lower is not a solution. I'd still shut it down and loosen and retighten wires on control. If a wire isn't making good contact it can give a bad/intermitant reading that can cause things to act wierd at different times, just as you describe. You do have a good ground for the unit don't you? That can make electrics do odd things too.

 

[LadyToysDream]

When the furnace was set up, hubby grounded it yes.
One of the things he was extra fussy about.

The dealer has been doing this for quite a few years. Burns wood himself, and knows this stuff backwards and forward.
He just is taking the lazy route this time because he thinks we are going to fiqure it out ourselves, and save him from making a trip here.
I would be setting out there myself and tracking the furnace, but the cold air really bothers me. I have arthuritis and some days it really hurts a lot.
I also have sleep apnea so the smoke bothers my breathing a lot.
The big reason we went with a OWB was to keep the smoke and any other smells outside.
If and when we ever get this problem solved, I will bring this thread back to page 1 with our solution.
The other thing I keep telling the hubby is to put less wood in it.
He can put the wood in, more than 2x in a 24 hour period.

Hubby likes burning wood.....he likes cutting wood. We just bought a tri axle, load of logs tuesday, for next winter supply's, and he has most of it cut already and is splitting with a ax. Today his parents come for a visit, and Dad decides he wants a load of logs delivered here. Hubby will cut it up for him, and then truck it to his house somehow. Hubby also bought a second sthl saw, this week. A used one so it would fit our budget plans. He needs a splitter but probably will end up borrowing one this year. Maybe next year we can get one