"Certified Arborist" on your Rigs, not just Ads

[M.D. Vaden]

Maybe someone has signs on their trucks or chpper gates in Portland with "Certified Arborist", but I don't recall seeing them. Likewise in Medford of Southern Oregon.

Anyway, for the first time, I put big letters "Certified Arborist" across the back window of my own vehicle recently, with the website address below. (ISA # too of course)

I've mentioned it in flyers and advertisements - just wasn't sure why I never put it on my truck lettering before.

 

[AlpineJesus]

I have the ISA Cert. arborist stickers on all my hardhats....they make me look more professional

 

[Stihl User]

I know a few guys here that are certified, they put it on all their trucks as well as all their adds.

 

[jrparbor04]

i have my stickers C.A. and member stickers on my hard hat,,,i want the public(i work for a government agency) to know that they have highly skilled people doing the tree work,,,now for the ads and truck decals,,,follow the laws that are in the I.S.A. website for that,,,there are really laws for ads and stuff

 

[ropensaddle]

Around here you would be better of just
puttin topping in big letters
Not kidding 85 percent of ads proclaim it
and they get a lot of work most around here
kaint even spell arborist bwth.

 

[clearance]

There is an add for a tree company in the Okanagan (B.C.) that says how they have ISA arborists on staff and do excellent work, blah, blah, the usual. No big deal, maybe so, the thing that made me howl was "we have a 60'? bucket truck for topping".

 

[treeseer]

There is an add for a tree company in the Okanagan (B.C.) that says how they have ISA arborists on staff and do excellent work, blah, blah, the usual. No big deal, maybe so, the thing that made me howl was "we have a 60'? bucket truck for topping".

Jim I agree that this shows an inconsistency in terms--topping a tree is bad, but making a topping cut in the course of a removal or a severe reduction is not bad, according to the Glossary. I tried to get "topping cut" out of the Glossary but was voted down. Again.

If the certifed arborist in Okanagan is truly advertising topping, chalk up another one for hypocrisy. :taped:

O and btw I have BCMA, muni and Utility certs all displayed in all advertising, and CA on magnetic signs for the vehicles. Say it loud and say it proud!

The regs for display are not laws per se and not that stringent; easy to follow.

 

[jrparbor04]

if people would only learn not to top,,,thats a shame to this industry,,,i agree on the term "drop crotch pruning" to a point,,,but not the topping cut

 

[M.D. Vaden]

if people would only learn not to top,,,thats a shame to this industry,,,i agree on the term "drop crotch pruning" to a point,,,but not the topping cut

Don't work for me. I provide service to people. My company's goal is to provide science, knowledge and skill, to provide the best potential for tree growth, to meed customer needs.

Last week, I topped 8 ponderosa pine trees that were blocking half of a valley view for some people who are moving from Maine to the Applegate Valley. If I didn't top the trees, they would be removed and there would be nothing left, including no customer service provided.

I told them that if they waited more years and topped the trees, the cuts would be very big and the decay would be very bad. But explained that if the 18 foot trees were reduced by 5' to 6' with small 3" to 4" diameter cuts, the new growth and tissue would envelop the wound. And all they need to do is have yearly pruning done with small pruning cuts to maintain the tree height for the view.

Your suggestion would only mean removal of the trees entirely - since they want the view - rather than preservation. Extreme statements "cull" a lot of tree preservation. Not to mention withdrawing an opportunity to show how arborist training and education can produce something. Now there are these 5 or 6 pines, and the owners can see how I'm relying on the auxins to stretch the plant cells in the upper limbs, curving them a little. And now they can see crown reduction done yearly in the preferred fashion.

That's why extremists who say "never top" are more limited in providing benefits. And in many cases, open the door to tree climbers who have even less knowledge. Topping is absolutely acceptible in certain circumstances, if experience and knowledge can allow the arborist to determine the appropriate diameter.

12" is too big. But 1" is absolutely fine. In fact, I purposely top 1" diameter trees when I "need" to force two limbs into a double leader tree just for the effect. I'm glad I'm not constrained by extremism, and have the experience to be versatile.Bonsai also employs topping.

People who don't know the stem size limits for topping, probably won't ever know until they receive additional training or the experience.

 

[treeseer]

Mario you are confusing reduction with topping. Do you have the ANSI Pruning standards or the isa bmp's to refer to? I reduce leyland cypress all the time, using 6" cuts sometimes but always at the best location (buds or laterals) and angle possible for the tree.

I'll reduce pines when I have to but I would rather window them.

 

[jrparbor04]

i am truly sorry for the pines that you have topped,,,they will never live to their full potential,,,topping kills,,,for many reasons

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Mario you are confusing reduction with topping. Do you have the ANSI Pruning standards or the isa bmp's to refer to? I reduce leyland cypress all the time, using 6" cuts sometimes but always at the best location (buds or laterals) and angle possible for the tree.

I'll reduce pines when I have to but I would rather window them.

No...

No confusion. No way that "crown reduction" or any other word describes it, nor would any other technique have worked. Other than removing the trees, and if the homeowners did remove the row of small ponderosas for a view, I wouldn't blame them.

They already had "window" pruning like you mentioned in Maine, but they agreed it was not good here. The trees just started to block out the valley, and to let them grow upward for "windows" would have allowed them to block out the mountains.

IT'S NOT IDENTICAL, BUT CLOSE. I'LL ATTACH AN IMAGE OF THE KIND OF MOUNTAINS WE HAVE HERE, TO SHOW WHAT WOULD GET BLOCKED TO ALLOW GROWTH FOR A WINDOW.

am truly sorry for the pines that you have topped,,,they will never live to their full potential,,,topping kills,,,for many reasons

They will do fine. In fact, there are pines that orientals have topped to train and kept under good care for hundreds of years. In fact, the shorter yearly pruned trees won't be up in the wind, and in this case, could out-live most local Ponderosa pines if maintained long enough.

I'm not sure if you are getting confused about this, thinking that some of us can't provide many styles of pruning and gardens for people.

Arborists who "never top" are crippled in the skills or services. One or the other - provided they don't "believe" it's a reasonable option in a percentage of cases.

Just so happens, I went outside tonight and topped a shore pine. I've been waiting for a month. It was given to me free and I transplanted it a couple of months ago.

I was planning to cut the main stem, to train it into what people mistakenly call "oriental" pruning sometimes. Brokers are coming to see our house tomorrow since its on the market, so as I was fine-tuning pruning, I clipped the 1.5" stem so the whorl of limbs will produce a round crown.

The reason I can do this, is I'm not crippled in my ability to perform it. Therefore, I can train big trees WITHOUT ever topping, and also do custom pruning WITH topping on small trees, providing a more rounded and complete range of services.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

See this apple tree?

I let it get to 12' tall, then TOPPED it for a narrow pyramidal stem.

No other word than "topped" fits the procedure.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

See this pine tree?

I didn't top this, nor train this, but trees like this topiary (or hand pruned) are very frequently trained to look like this in no other way than including some topping with some other pruning and possible some manipulation.

The man paid like $9,000 for this tree back in the 80s... and he's happy with it. Likes is more than his building next to it.

I kept-up with this tree for about 7 years for the Engineer who owns it, until we moved. It did marvelously until some "Consulting Arborist" in Portland took over one year and cut-into the clouds too deeply. Odd that he wouldn't know that shore pine only produce new buds on the green candles before the leave matured. He shaved off some candles entirely and into a few twigs. Fortunately a few interior candles escaped his pruning equipment...

(and the guy teaches classes)

One of the better known Portand arborists. Maybe he visits this board and will recognize the tree.

 

[treeseer]

Nice view, I would want to keep it, too--or enhance it with a well-pruned tree.

The pine you cut to the whorl was "headed". Nothing wrong with "orientalizing" pines to fit a space, jparbor. The tree may fit a new and higher potential for its owner.

The apple tree was "reduced" to small laterals. Standard procedure for fruit trees.

You confuse this work with "topping", a fundamental foulup, conceptually.
"And this guy teaches classes"?
Please refer to the ANSI standards or the ISA BMP's, or the Glossary, so we can speak the same language.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Nice view, I would want to keep it, too--or enhance it with a well-pruned tree.

The pine you cut to the whorl was "headed". Nothing wrong with "orientalizing" pines to fit a space, jparbor. The tree may fit a new and higher potential for its owner.

The apple tree was "reduced" to small laterals. Standard procedure for fruit trees.

You confuse this work with "topping", a fundamental foulup, conceptually.
"And this guy teaches classes"?
Please refer to the ANSI standards or the ISA BMP's, or the Glossary, so we can speak the same language.

I like you treeseer !!....

You communicate well - LOL

Seems we have several phrases that are close to overlapping.

I did reduce the apple to small laterals. And on the top, I cross-cut the main stem at a couple of sideways aimed twigs, which were also topping.

Seems that any commoner would say the the tree was topped. But if "reducing to laterals" works, sounds good to me. I typically refer to reducing to laterals when the subordinate laterals are angled upward and "cloak" the reduction so that it looks like it wasn't even pruned.

When the laterals are ninety degrees sideways and the tree is flat-topped, I've always called that topping.

ANSI may do better to list that kind of reduction as "topping" so that arborists don't seem to be misleading the public.

What happens, is that a Certified Arborist TOPS a tree at laterals, and tells the customer that it's reducing to laterals (and to beware of the tree service that TOPS). Then that person sees some other butcher do the same thing to another tree, and gets confused, because arborists say "never top", but should explain that there is a "type of topping" that can be done called "reducing to laterals".

Consider this and see what you think....

We arborists seem to try to make it easy to communicate amongst ourselves - that's not too hard. But it seems like our professional standards and terminology don't work in many cases for our customers. If we are trained, its the customers who we need to communicate on the same wavelength with. They understand "bark" better than "cambium" or "phloem". So its likely that phrases that arborists may not prefer, would be ideal to communicate with clients in several situations.

 

[beowulf343]

If you are going to preach to the masses, you need to speak the language of the masses.

 

[Lumberjacked]

I have always found that if you explain to customers why they shouldn't "TOP," and they understand the consequences of this, most have always strayed from topping as an option to reduce height. 9 times out of 10 they are only worried about the strength of their tall tree and afraid its going to fall onto the house.

As a cert Arborist I too agree that "topping" in some situations is absolutely necessary. For instance when some landscape architect designs a bunch of white pine trees into a landscape and the homeowner calls us to reduce height and maintain the original "look." When you shape these trees are you "topping" the entire thing. Yeah....I know they shouldnt have been planted there but thats a different thread.

I dont NOT approve of "topping" a 80 foot tree in your front yard because you want to see more of the ???????. I never have done this and never will. I know a lot of guys will say "Ha! I'll top that tree and in 5 years when it dies they'll call me back to take it out." Well in the 5 year span you could have pruned that tree a little each year and made just as much or more and had a tree to maintain for another 20 years.