Chainsaw kickback.

[03USMC51]

Having done Log Home work for a number of years before my current employment I'm fairly familiar with kickback. Window and door openings require alot of end cutting and bore cutting/notching in order to insert flat steel to keep the logs from shifting during normal settling. As you can imagine this is usually done in fairly confined spaces, depending on the size of the window/door creating a less than ideal cutting situation. My advice, IF you MUST cut something where there is a potential for kickback, make damn sure you are prepared; stiff front arm, ultimate concentration, take your time, and have someone else on site to call the medics in case of the worst. I should also mention we always used the smallest saw required for the the task, this was not a situation where P=Plenty. Stay safe!

 

[bobster1]

Take a look at member Oregon Engineer's posts. He has posted a lot of good information.

kickback video

kickback injury

chain shot slideshow

chainsaw injury locations

Thanks, opened all but the kickback vid. I read a lot and understand the mechanics of a kickback.
I used a die grinder expanding a hole with a burr tip. If you loose firm grip..the tip hits the inner circumference and the die grinder rides around the hole with serious power shaking the living crap from your hands.
I assume kickback is something like that, but with a 20 pounder saw with cutting blades aiming for your head or upper body. I currently use an ms460 with a 28" bar and very aware of the tip location at all times. I am mostly bucking with the saw. I pray to God that I would never experience a kickback. I hope it's not a motorcycle thing..... "It's not if you got down, but it's when you go down...." I rode motorcylce for 2 years and thankfully I have never gone down. Hope my luck is same with my chain saw.... (MS 460 for sale in 2 years... LOL)

 

[spacemule]

Thanks, opened all but the kickback vid. I read a lot and understand the mechanics of a kickback.
I used a die grinder expanding a hole with a burr tip. If you loose firm grip..the tip hits the inner circumference and the die grinder rides around the hole with serious power shaking the living crap from your hands.
I assume kickback is something like that, but with a 20 pounder saw with cutting blades aiming for your head or upper body. I currently use an ms460 with a 28" bar and very aware of the tip location at all times. I am mostly bucking with the saw. I pray to God that I would never experience a kickback. I hope it's not a motorcycle thing..... "It's not if you got down, but it's when you go down...." I rode motorcylce for 2 years and thankfully I have never gone down. Hope my luck is same with my chain saw.... (MS 460 for sale in 2 years... LOL)

The kickback video is in a controlled test situation without a person involved--it just illustrates the forces. There's nothing gory if that is what you were afraid of. Also, kickback can get you in the feet and legs if you're making an undercut when it happens. Note the most common injury locations on that link.

 

[sILlogger]

the worst kickback i've ever had was a 395 husky at 13000 grand when the tip of the bar hit a railroad spike that was inbedded in the tree. that is always fun

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Dont Bore Into The End Grain!!

Wrap you thumb is the number one safety rule when running a saw, it will help prevent many injuries, but not kickback.

NO :monkey: THUMB!!!!!!



I would occasionally catch myself using a monkey thumb grip with my left hand when cutting, until I tried my 1st bore cut.



I was helping a neighbor cut up a 32" ash he had taken down and discovered one of the trunk pieces had a weird chunk of wood holding on below where the back cut was made. While thinking what to do I remembered having recently read about how to make a bore cut, so I figured I would give it a try and see if I could nip off this piece using this technique.


So I got all lined up and revved the saw (no blipping this time) and no one ever mentioned not boring into the end grain!!


As soon as the saw touched the wood it Jerked violently back and up almost coming to head height (the power head that is) and set me back a step. Now I'm not large guy (6' 265lbs) but I did have a death grip on the saw expecting something to happen, so at least I were prepared.


And of course, thinking I had done something wrong, I tried the same thing again with similar (but more shocking) Results.



I then tried making a bore cut into the side of the log and have had much better results ever since. umpkin2:



Ever since then I'm always conscious of two things.


#1: NO MONKEY THUMB!

#2 Beware of kickback situations.




Thats my .02c


.

 

[Fuzly]

the worst kickback i've ever had was a 395 husky at 13000 grand when the tip of the bar hit a railroad spike that was inbedded in the tree. that is always fun

Wow! How did that turn out? It probably did peg your fun meter.

Good advice so far. I would add don't cut like you're afraid of the saw, if that makes any sense. What I mean is lock the top arm out, but keep the saw close to you where you are stronger and can see where the bar tip is, and try to stay to the side a little bit. Your face doesn't have to be directly over the bar to see what's going on.

Also, I know many of us poo poo them or throw them in the garbage, but the safety chains do work. Properly set up (sharp and rakers set at proper height) they cut pretty good. They are still slower than standard chain but may be an acceptable compromise depending on what you are doing.

As others have mentioned, watch the bar tip, wrap the thumb, and take your time.

 

[sILlogger]

Wow! How did that turn out? It probably did peg your fun meter.

Good advice so far. I would add don't cut like you're afraid of the saw, if that makes any sense. What I mean is lock the top arm out, but keep the saw close to you where you are stronger and can see where the bar tip is, and try to stay to the side a little bit. Your face doesn't have to be directly over the bar to see what's going on.

Also, I know many of us poo poo them or throw them in the garbage, but the safety chains do work. Properly set up (sharp and rakers set at proper height) they cut pretty good. They are still slower than standard chain but may be an acceptable compromise depending on what you are doing.

As others have mentioned, watch the bar tip, wrap the thumb, and take your time.

it worked out alright. snapped the chain in half. engaged the chain brake even though i was stumping(hand wasn't there to engage it-saw was on its side) tried to rip the saw out of my hand but i had a good hold on it. def will wake you up!!

 

[Brik]

The result is the bar flips back into your shoulder or head depending on where you are holding the saw.

Ouch! Thanks for the explanation!

 

[rguseman]

In high school I worked on a farm for a couple of summers. The farmer always said it is good to have a little fear of the equipment you are operating because a little fear breeds a healthy respect which leads to a healthy dose of caution (farmer used a little more colorful language). Never quite understood that until I started using chainsaws on a regular basis.

This thread has been real helpful and I have learned a lot. If nothing else it reinforces safety, proper technique and how the investment in safety gear is really minimal compared to the consequences of not having it.

 

[Crofter]

The straight on bucking kickback is about the easiest to handle. If your front elbow is locked you can soak it up pretty good, but the ones you can get when you have the saw in the felling position, the locked elbow does nothing as the saw rotates around it if somethin engages the kickback zone of the bar tip. You got no bone and muscle mass behind it. It likely will not engage the chain brake either. You can get into a ricochet kickback where the saw comes off one kickback into another. You cant prepare for that. Other than the straight on classic kickback, you probably just cannot react quick or powerfully enough to save your hide and juice. Touching something hidden in the leaves and brush it could be over before you saw it comeing.

 

[Sprig]

For the person asking what ta watch out for a couple of things I can think of in these wee hours. Bore cutting, I tend to avoid it if at all possible but if you must do it stay out of the KB zone, that means off to the side when doing a vertical bore and behind the saw when doing a horizontal one (a lesson I learned the hard way and wear the scar on my upper thigh, young and really dumb).
Don't cut into something without being aware of what is behind the object being cut, many injuries are a result of this and I have a spacer friend who almost died while clearing brush and hitting the tip on an old stump. Cutting into piles of small stuff that is wider than the bar ( past the end of it) is a sure recipe for danger too, pull the pile apart (applies to big stuff too), if you have to do alot of it then make yourself a cutting rack narrower than your bar, it won't stop all KBs but you won't be catching the tip either which is imho deadliest. Same thing goes when cutting into decked logs, always make sure your tip isn't going to hit the log behind the one you're on, I've had this happen several times recently and my ingrained habit of cutting to the side of my saw, firm grip, fully aware of the KB zone, is what kept me in one piece, it sure wakes ya up though. all I can think of right now. Work safe and have fun All!



Serge

 

[kurtty]

a couple weeks ago me and my brother where getting fire wood. he was bukcing up a log and his tip hit a branch whcih caused the saw to kick. the saw was a 371xp. he said that kick back had some jam behind it but nothing any man or woman couldn't handle, as long as the saw is being held properly. your front arm is easily strong enough and your reflexes quick enough to stop that bar from hiting you as long as your paying attention. the break on the saw kicked in before the saw even came out of the log. i always thought it was your front arm that hit the break and stoped the chain during a kick back. but its acually the sheer force of the kickback that pops the break on. in this case anyway.
i was right next to him when it happend and it made a weird bwop sound. i looked over at him and he had this stupid look on his face. im very glad that it happend the way it did, definatly a learning experience.

 

[litefoot]

For the person asking what ta watch out for a couple of things I can think of in these wee hours. Bore cutting, I tend to avoid it if at all possible but if you must do it stay out of the KB zone, that means off to the side when doing a vertical bore and behind the saw when doing a horizontal one (a lesson I learned the hard way and wear the scar on my upper thigh, young and really dumb).
Don't cut into something without being aware of what is behind the object being cut, many injuries are a result of this and I have a spacer friend who almost died while clearing brush and hitting the tip on an old stump. Cutting into piles of small stuff that is wider than the bar ( past the end of it) is a sure recipe for danger too, pull the pile apart (applies to big stuff too), if you have to do alot of it then make yourself a cutting rack narrower than your bar, it won't stop all KBs but you won't be catching the tip either which is imho deadliest. Same thing goes when cutting into decked logs, always make sure your tip isn't going to hit the log behind the one you're on, I've had this happen several times recently and my ingrained habit of cutting to the side of my saw, firm grip, fully aware of the KB zone, is what kept me in one piece, it sure wakes ya up though. all I can think of right now. Work safe and have fun All!



Serge

Lot of good stuff there. Rep coming...Thanks!

 

[Sprig]

a couple weeks ago me and my brother where getting fire wood. he was bukcing up a log and his tip hit a branch whcih caused the saw to kick. the saw was a 371xp. he said that kick back had some jam behind it but nothing any man or woman couldn't handle, as long as the saw is being held properly. your front arm is easily strong enough and your reflexes quick enough to stop that bar from hiting you as long as your paying attention. the break on the saw kicked in before the saw even came out of the log. i always thought it was your front arm that hit the break and stoped the chain during a kick back. but its acually the sheer force of the kickback that pops the break on. in this case anyway.
i was right next to him when it happend and it made a weird bwop sound. i looked over at him and he had this stupid look on his face. im very glad that it happend the way it did, definatly a learning experience.

Yup, another thing ta watch out for, branches and stubs of 'em, glad it worked out.
On chain brakes, usually it is the hand/wrist/forearm that engages the break but newer saws also have an 'inertia' system as well that will use momentem of the kicking saw to stop it (if I am not mistaken there is both mechanical inertia brake and electronic one, stand to be corrected though, Lake?). To test your inertia brake put the scabbard on your bar and then rap the tip on something hard (ground or stump, not yer dogs head ), it should engage without you touching the handle. Don't be fooled by a small KB btw, even a little saw WOT kicking can ruin the strongest person's day faster than you can blink, and electric saws, most of which do not even have breaks, deserve as much respect if not more than gas saws (I do not like them at all though used them lots when doing reno's).
My 0.02$ fer da morning, off to the woodpile



Serge

 

[Fuzly]

it worked out alright. snapped the chain in half.

O.K., that's one I haven't had happen.

What happens when the chain breaks? Do the hand guards/chain catcher work? Has anybody got whapped with a broken chain?

 

[sILlogger]

O.K., that's one I haven't had happen.

What happens when the chain breaks? Do the hand guards/chain catcher work? Has anybody got whapped with a broken chain?

when they have done it to me they usually shoot 10-15 ft off the top of the bar. i have been in a situation where when they broke they slapped me in the right thigh...just a lil tear in the jeans and leg...nothing big. i personally swear by a roller chain catcher...they are great and really help to control the chain when it breaks or gets thrown off. And as for what happens when i 24" chain breaks on a 13000 rpm 066, when it slapped around it did this

 

[bobster1]

Thanks sILlogger. That is a cool pic you posted up. Thank goodness for safety features. Glad you never got injured....