Chainsaw mill VS lucas mill SHOWDOWN!

[aesache]

Hi All

My work hired in a guy with a lucas mill to come in and mill up some walnut trees. I thought this would be a good time to do an apples to apples comparison of a lucas mill vs a chainsaw mill. Here are some pros and cons to each. Also this was my first expirience with both mills so this is a complete novice perspective.


1. The lucas mill
Here in canada the lucas mill used costs about 10 grand. It took 2hrs to set up and get ready (huge heavy power head). This is a real mill the cut took about 15 seconds to make and this is what it looks like.
View attachment 229961



2. Here is the sawmill I used a 3120 husky and a cobbled together alaskin (litterally 10 min to build and it is awfull because of it)
here is a pic of the jig and the board that it cut
View attachment 229962

This cut took about 45 seconds to make with the CS mill.

View attachment 229963


Conclusion:
The lucas mill was really big and clunky to set up. It had alot of trouble with nails in the wood as well that did some expensive damade to the cutter. It was however incredibley quick at making boards.

The chainsaw mill on the other hand took 10 min to set up and when a nail was hit it took only a few min to resharpen the chain.
The downside was that it was very noisy. Though i must say it was far faster cutting than what i had read online. As well it wasn't that much more labour intensive than the Lucas mill (if you work smarter not harder)

All in all i think i prefeered the chainsaw mill due to its low wait (relativly) and ease of use as well its cuts "wandered" far less than the lucas mill. I think that whatever was lost in kerf will be made up for when we plain the wood flat. The lucas mill wandered alot more than i thought it would (no better than a band mill). if you are doing under 500 board feet at a time the CS mill is the way to go.


anyway just thought i would post this as my .02 cents

 

[BobL]

A single cut is hardly a fair test since you haven't factored in the need to rotate logs or use different rail setups with minimills etc to make the edge cuts on boards etc.
Getting things square with a CS mill as a Lucas is also not so easy
By the time all this is taken into consideration a Lucas should out cut a CS mill by at least 5:1.

Also, try doing the same test on a 12 ft long, 45" wide Aussie hardwood cut and you will see the Lucas as a dedicated slabber easily out cut a CS mill.
The relative cut times will be similar but since the CS mill will take as long as 30 minutes to make the then 10 minutes with a Lucas is a big gain in production across the day.
Since they both use chains then nails issues are equitable and although it is not advisable, the Lucas can continue to cut even with a fairly blunt chain.

I like my CS mills but if I could rationalize the need for and have the space to store a four stroke slabber I'd have one (and keep my CS mills)

 

[hamish]

If you intent is to mill dimensional lumber remotely and be most efficent, the Lucas or Peterson are the route to go. Do do the same statically well a bsm is pretty much on par but dependant upon log size will need a csm to complement it. A CSM shines in remote applications.

All the fiddle fussing I need to do with my csm for the next cut equates to 3-4 more cuts already on my bsm.

my 0.03 cents

 

[aesache]

poorly written conclusion.

Hi i should have probably given more information and now reading through the conclusion could use some work as well. please see my comments below

- Bob i do agree that a single cut is hardly a fair test since you haven't factored in the need to rotate logs or use different rail setups with minimills etc. - That being said this was not the only board i cut i managed to cut 430 board feet of lumber that day. most 5/4 and 18 inches wide by 10 feet long i also did a few boards of hard maple ( that was slower)

- hamish If you intent is to mill dimensional lumber remotely and be most efficent, the Lucas or Peterson are the route to go. Do do the same statically well a bsm is pretty much on par but dependant upon log size will need a csm to complement it. A CSM shines in remote applications.

you said it perfectly i agree.



More or less what i was getting at is. these few points.
1. As a novice a chainsaw mill is probably you best bet as a first mill
2. The lucas mill is significantly faster cutting but if you are only milling 4-500 board feet at a time then again the CS mill is the way to go. Any amount of production work should be done with the lucas mill.

ok and this was my main point and here is the one you guys will likly argue. - Hands down. The chainsaw mill had a better finish and a cut that wandered FAR less than the lucas mill. This is what was so shocking to me.




again too this is only personal oppinion but as a complete novice and working both machines for the first time (yes i helpled and ran the lucas mill for a while) the CS mill came out on top for the hobbie user.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Are you saying a chainsawmill won't ever make wavy lumber??? OR that a novice with one won't??

I've seen swing mills set up over logs MANY times, and i can tell you, i've NEVER seen one take even one hour, let alone 2 hrs to set up!

As for the power head, everyone i've seen was on wheels, the owner wheeled it right over, hooked one side to the rails, then the second side, and cranked it up into place.

SR

 

[BobL]

Are you saying a chainsawmill won't ever make wavy lumber??? OR that a novice with one won't??

It depends what you mean by a wavy cut.
I assume you mean something smoothly varying long the length with a wavelength of a few feet?
When I use log rails with my alaskans then I never see that sort of a wave.
When I don't use rails and when using a minimill I sometimes see a small sawtooth wave with a wavelength of about 12 - 18" and effect that appears to be related to the way I pace my way thru the cut and how firmly the saw is held to the minimill milling rail. On the minimill, the zigzag step is more evident on the cut furthest from the powerhead in wider cuts. However, I mainly use my minimill to cut strips off slabs so the cutting width is rarely more than 4". I don't cut many boards with any of my CS setups, I cut them using my shop bandsaw.
The main sort of cutting defects I see with alaskans are uneven thickness across the whole length or width of the board. Almost always these are related to incorrectly setting up of log or mill rails. On really wide cuts, bar sag becomes a problem so that produces slabs that are thicker in the middle than the edges.

I've seen swing mills set up over logs MANY times, and i can tell you, i've NEVER seen one take even one hour, let alone 2 hrs to set up!

Most of the ones I have seen have taken less than 30 minutes to set up. I have seen one take over 2 hours and that was on uneven boggy ground over a large log and there was no machinery available to tow the log to firm ground. The miller had to set up planks for a walkway and scaffolding and cut a bunch of blocks and boards freehand with a CS to support the scaffolding and to lift the cutting head up to the top of the lo, and to stop his setup from sinking into the boggy ground. It was still worth using the Lucas because that log would have taken a week with a CS mill.

 

[aesache]

Reply

Are you saying a chainsawmill won't ever make wavy lumber??? OR that a novice with one won't??

I've seen swing mills set up over logs MANY times, and i can tell you, i've NEVER seen one take even one hour, let alone 2 hrs to set up!

As for the power head, everyone i've seen was on wheels, the owner wheeled it right over, hooked one side to the rails, then the second side, and cranked it up into place.

SR

Nope i am saying that the chainsaw mill i used with a 24 inch bar didnt make wavy lumber and that the lucas mill did...alot


as for set up BOBL had touched on a valid point. The logs were not able to be moved and they were on a rather steep (and muddy) incline. The lucas mill did have wheels but the carridge was heavy and did not roll up hill easily at all. The logs were about 300 yard from the truck.

to breakit down the process
LUCAS MILL
10 min to untie from the truck
15 min to get the main rails to the log site
25 min (had to stop half way for a breather) to get the powerhead.
an easy 40 minutes to level it the ground was so soft it kept sinking
then another 15 min to fill and get the machine together and working
so i guess it was closer to 1 and 3/4 hrs to set up (i rounded)

CS MILL
4 bolts tighted
grab the saw and gas and walk over to the log.
Screw a board to the top and start cutting.



Again the lucas mill was a beautiful machine and i am not saying it doesnt have its place. It was WAY faster cutting than the CS mill (though double cutting for wider boards was a little bit of a PITA)

But for a NOVICE/HOBBIE FIRST TIME USER OF BOTH (<----thats the key phrase there) the CS Mill was easier to use, store and set up.

Low production in remote areas = $1200 CS mill
Hi production in remote areas= $10,000 lucas mill and $8,000 tractor is the way to go


The CS Mill worked way better than everyone makes them out to be.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Bob, my last post was aimed at the origional posters comments,

All in all i think i prefeered the chainsaw mill due to its low wait (relativly) and ease of use as well its cuts "wandered" far less than the lucas mill. I think that whatever was lost in kerf will be made up for when we plain the wood flat. The lucas mill wandered alot more than i thought it would (no better than a band mill).

He obviously thinks the CSM wanders less that a swing or band mill. Where i was going with my last question is, it's NOT the swinger/band/chainsaw mill that makes the difference! It's the operator!

I started out many years ago with a CSM and of course now have a BSM, both can turn out flat lumber, both can turn out wavy lumber, peroid! It's the operator that makes the difference, not the tool! I've seen all three turn out wavy and flat lumber...

With my bandmill, it turns out flat lumber cut after cut after cut, and there's a reason for that,

The reason is, if it starts to dip or dive, i stop, find out why, and correct it! That's what it takes with any sawmill!

SR

 

[Can8ianTimber]

WELL PUT sawyer Rob. I will agree, I have owned and operated a Lucas, CSM with bars ranging from 30" to 84" and timberking BSM. Out of the three styles my opinion would be that the lucas takes the least maintenance to achieve straight consistant cuts. Again that is "MY OPINION". With that said my favorite is my Timberking BSM. I like the wide cuts and thin kerf.

 

[MHouse1028]

i agree the chainsaw mill is a very inexpensive awesome tool..i made 5500.00 dollars the first 3 months i owned my alaskan csm making wide hardwood slabs for people and also some 24" wide pine flooring..even in 28" wide rock maple i was milling at the same speed of my bandmill..though i do love my bandmill and it's narrow kerf is great for production work.I personally have not used a lucas mill and there very nice i just couldn't afford one. for the price of my csm and what i have done with it how the heck can you beat it it's a wonderful tool.every mill has it's weak points and strong points and it's place....just my 2 cents now i'm going back out to make some saw dust lol

 

[BobL]

Bob, my last post was aimed at the origional posters comments,
He obviously thinks the CSM wanders less that a swing or band mill. Where i was going with my last question is, it's NOT the swinger/band/chainsaw mill that makes the difference! It's the operator!

Sure, unless something is bent its usually the operator and if by wavy you mean crooked.

I have never seen a csm make "wavy" cuts like A, but I have seen them make cuts like B

BTW I love this pic

 

[BobL]

to breakit down the process
LUCAS MILL
10 min to untie from the truck
15 min to get the main rails to the log site
25 min (had to stop half way for a breather) to get the powerhead.
an easy 40 minutes to level it the ground was so soft it kept sinking
then another 15 min to fill and get the machine together and working
so i guess it was closer to 1 and 3/4 hrs to set up (i rounded)

Just like "the single board cut test" it is unfair to claim this lengthy set up time as being a fair test of the two methods, as this will in most cases not be the case. Usually the operator will be able to get the mill almost alongside the log and if not he will organize for it to me moved to an accessible place

 

[Adrianswoodworkshop]

Sure, unless something is bent its usually the operator and if by wavy you mean crooked.

I have never seen a csm make "wavy" cuts like A, but I have seen them make cuts like B

BTW I love this pic

Hi , just joined to add hopefully some of my experience to the debate. I have had a Lucas 9" swing mill for many many years know for primarily Hardwoods but in addition cutting a massive amount of old growth European Larch. First of all In my experience no chainsaw no matter how sharp and whatever tooth angle or rate of feed will touch European larch in rip mode. The 9" tungsten tipped blade will cut effectively but requires sound operator experience and patience not to overload the mill head. Pretty much every instance of wavy cut with the Lucas mill in either circular or slabber mode is due to tension in the wood. In slabber mode if it starts to dive half way through it may also be to blunt chain. Scottish tree's suffer greatly from tension, so bad the plank being sawn can curve away from the log up to 12" half way down the log or alternatively lock the blade in a severe clamp stalling the engine dead. The old saying " you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear" comes to mind, and is very true. Any body sawmilling with whatever style of machine should be able to keep the blade or chain fully sharpened at all times so really blunt blades are not worth discussing. A portable chainsaw mill or Alaskan can not begin to be compared to a dedicated mill like the Lucas or others, they are quite different and are specific for the job they do. I made my own Alaskan with a big Sthill and it was great for taking to inaccessible logs for odd occasions. Productivity comparison on 30 tons of logs wouldn't be even worth considering. So my way of thinking is use what's best for the situation, unless your considering a woodmizer, then unless your cutting blocks of butter forget them the cut is the worst from any machine even if your change the blades for every log there still rubbish, combine this with a bad operator and you just create a whole heap of firewood. Alternatively if money is no object then the Forestor "Tom Sawyer" 4" mobile bandmill is probably the ultimate, but who can afford £35,000.00?