Chasing the 50cc Holy Grail !

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tmessenger

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Everyone's ideal saw comes in many flavors mine is 50cc, light as possible, 16" bar, well constructed, easy to start, minimum investment (read sweat equity) and reliable. Not asking too much no ? This saw is for a maximum of 14" hardwood, thinning / wood lot management which for me means a good deal of over head limbing and cutting the ever present shrub growth.

This of course meant trading and scrounging, anyone can pay retail right? It all started with a traded box of parts from Mastermind (024 cases, 026 crank and MS260 top end) some good bits ya hear and few things that need more help. I had a good clutch side cover from an 039 and the missing trigger lock so that went into the mix and got it running.

MasterM. and I discussed squish after I took some initial readings, the suicidal monkey recommended a beer can base gasket around .007 with sealer on both sides to give around .019 squish. This equated to right near 200psi on my gauge after assembly a bit hotter then I think I need so... Sthil offers two base gaskets one is .019 call a high compression gasket the other is .038 for normal compression. I made my own and it''s around .022 this yielded a still healthy 165 psi and more to my liking.

The next issue was the carb the one I got was one of those fixed jet monsters with a #56 main jet and it was too rich only pulling 12,000 rpm's even with a muffler mod. Up steps another trade deal from tbone75, the bone did not have the much coveted wt-194 but he did have a older model wt-22b from the 024~026 early days. Glad to report it works beautifully on this saw, good throttle response, idles nice and starts in half a pull warm (old school = new school).

Next up was the fixed rate oil pump, several problems here, first off the new clutch sprocket (one for the adjustable pump) was too deep and rubbing on this fixed pump, angle grinder to the rescue it was also over oiling my 16" bar. I managed to talk tbone out of his later model (plastic case) fixed pump in our trade deal and used my soldering iron to partially close off the inlet port on the pump. Still a bit more oil then needed but much better then the first all metal pump.

Last up was the muffler, my muffler is what I would call a bean counter muffler one that was designed by an accountant not an engineer. The early 026 models had a baffle in the back can, sort of a box around the exhaust inlet port with holes drilled in the side then an exit port in the front cover. These were not very restrictive and reasonably quiet. Next came the less costly to produce back can with just a sheet metal diverter in front of the inlet exhaust port, not as good but Oh well. And lastly the open can with a single 3/8" hole in the end cap, great they went from a good design to saving 30 cents in manufacturing cost to provide a muffler that is both restrictive and not all that quite. I ended up drilling an extra 3/8" hole in the end cap, this eliminated the restriction problem but was too noisy for my taste so I added an extra diverter plate in the back can to break up the sound wave (see photo). This works well no power loss to the modded open can design and it's a good deal quieter.

Oh yeah the bar and chain, my local saw shop had a bunch of these NOS Windsor Speed Tip bars lying around the hitch was they are short 16" 3/8 58g and Pioneer mount but for $10 I've had my eye on them for a time. Well after doing some close inspection they would work fine as Stilh mount, oil hole was good, adjuster hole was good but the slot need work (angle grinder + file and all is good ). The new chain was the good old Oragon 73 DL nothing wrong there.

All in all this was a fun and rewarding project, the 024/026/260 is a good runner I think it would run with the healthy 028 super I had last year and is 2.5 lbs lighter.

261.jpg


262.jpg


263.jpg
 
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nice build... I have a ms260 that I am dying to get down to Mastermind for some porting... Sadly everytime I think the box is ready to ship the bills clean my wallet out! :msp_sad: I'll keep the tip on the beer can in mind. Which cylinder did you use the 44mm 026 or the ms260 44.7mm?

Were you at the GTG in Chealsea this last weekend? If I would have known you wanted a wt194 I might have had a spare to bring... Oh well...

My ms260 is waiting with all the right parts... I got the more aggressively ported 44mm pro (with pro decomp valve) cylinder, OEM 44mm piston (New), and a wt194 waiting. Thinking about the muff mods I've been doing lately I might do a little more to mine. I was thinking of using a "V" shaped baffle in the rear of the muffler so the sound would be diverted but the gases would flow directly over the bottom of the "V." IE: not cut flow but divert the sound. I was also going to shave the waffle grate they have on the top cover and weld in the old hole. Then recut a decent slot across the front (horizontally), and then add a custom baffle/diverter so direct the gases downword at the exit. More stream-lined design with better flow...

Anyhow nice job on the saw, but don't be surprised if you have some nay-sayers ragging on you about getting a 346ne/xp.
 
curious if you ran it with the 200psi and decided to lower compressions?

nice lookin saw and good story - rep sent
 
For the money I won't be crying in my beer... an extra .75 pound and 0.2 less HP (guessing here). I can put a 026/260 together for 1/5 the cost of a new 346xp/ne. Plus getting a 346xp carcas to rebuild is near impossible where I live (ie: Brain-washed Stihl country). I have to wonder where Neil gets his 346's to rebuild... I know he does a fair amount of them...

we got a little off track too... tmessenger has a pretty creamsickel now!
 
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"Which cylinder did you use the 44mm 026 or the ms260 44.7mm?"
This was the 44.7 top including the covers, I did have to do a little trimming to the cylinder cover to make it work on the 024 case.

"Were you at the GTG in Chealsea"
Nope

"Thinking about the muff mods I've been doing lately I might do a little more to mine. I was thinking of using a "V" shaped baffle in the rear of the muffler"
Sounds good put up a photo when you get it done so I can copy your idea.

"curious if you ran it with the 200psi and decided to lower compression?"
I did run with the high compression but also the fat fixed jet carb. I did get the saw in some 10" hard wood and it felt stout but it just seemed the low squish was pushing it so....

"For the money I won't be crying in my beer... an extra .75 pound"
Yep I only have 140 rolled and dried frog legs in this one and that's with really nice guts and all new maintenance stuff. I cringe at the Stihl OEM parts prices but this saw has been out so long and they made so many of them the aftermarket has solved that problem + there are boat loads of used parts out there. I like the Husky's, Dolmar's, Jred's and etc but IMO if you don't mind getting your hands dirty the 026 based saws are the best bang for the buck in the 50cc group and easy to find.
 
When I read the thread title I thought, Oh great, another what-saw-should-I buy? thread. I'm glad that I read the thread.

Tried to rep you, tmessenger, but the software I need to spread it around first.
 
ok just because I am curious... what is the real power and weight difference between the two saws (260 vs346)? I've seen some numbers before but I'm curious what the PHO weighs on either side and what the stock HP ratings are...???

I thought the 346 was lighter???

346xp = 3.7HP stock 11lbs PHO
026 = 3.5HP stock 10.4lbs PHO
260 = 3.2HP stock 10.6lbs PHO

IS all this right? Anyone want to confirm/correct??? I tried to pull from factory manuals online...
 
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Sorry, but there is no way around a 346xp! :D

The OP stated his saw set him back about $140 and another member can put one together for 1/5 the price of a 346xp, I'd say that there are many ways around one... :msp_smile:
 
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My mutt power head weights exactly 10.5 lbs (I just drained off the oil tank but did not wash it out) this is compete including bar nuts. Others that have weighed there 346 head are saying 11.3 lbs dry. Power on the 260 is a muffler issue and carb issue if it has the fixed jet carb. We all know the 346 is runner and a good handling saw, a little faster and a little heaver then the 026 I'd be happy with either of them.

The right tool in the right hands at the right time...... "My kingdom for a horse"


ok just because I am curious... what is the real power and weight difference between the two saws (260 vs346)? I've seen some numbers before but I'm curious what the PHO weighs on either side and what the stock HP ratings are...???

I thought the 346 was lighter???

346xp = 3.7HP stock 11lbs PHO
026 = 3.5HP stock 10.4lbs PHO
260 = 3.2HP stock 10.6lbs PHO

IS all this right? Anyone want to confirm/correct??? I tried to pull from factory manuals online...
 
Sounds good put up a photo when you get it done so I can copy your idea.

B/c I have a little extra time this is my idea so far on the 260 muffler (3mins in MS paint... LOL)

260mufflerdesign.jpg

You can see in the side view that I'm going to use a diamond shape baffel to direct the gas up or down out of the cylinder (idea to bounce the sound but not disturb flow that much). That diamond shape baffle will run the full width of the muffler being mig welded in to the rear 1/2 of the muffler.

2nd concern is the external "waffel baffel" (blue on side view). Cut it off entirely...

3rd: just for fun close and flush off the origional holes (blue on front view: right).

4th: create new rectangular horizontal hole (right-red) to match how the new "V" shapped baffle makes the muffler flow.

5th: make a new external deflector to direct exiting gas flow down ward.
 

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