Chemistry Question

[hamish]

Ethanol mixed at 50:1 with either Husky or Stihl oil, never an issue, for its stored in airt tight cans and cared for (avaiding temperature extremes and nver lasts more than 3 months, and never has a problem. They see fuel everyday, I dont need to stockpile it.

I don't make meth in my bedroom just alot of methane.

 

[Mad Professor]

Use 100LL AV gas and forget the Stabil.

 

[taxidermist]

Loss of octane in a fuel has never been a major issue in my experience. Its when ethanol becomes an acid that destroys a fuel management system. (gaskets, seals, O rings as an example) My second issue would be, less lubricant than 100% petroleum. Also note, other additives that fuel distributers add for the winter months.

Loss of octane in fuel leads to detnotaion aka spark nock. This will kill a 2 stroke piston in no time.

Rob

 

[wilsonishere]

For one you are using an air tight (metal) can, there is a reason that premixed fuel is sold in it and that is shelf life. Now i took chemistry in college and if I remember right octane loss will be minimal in a sealed container so it is a moot point. What you need to know is when you put the fuel in the can humidity in the air can make a difference, so i would fill the can to the brim and get all air out. Now you have another factor removed from the equation. The other thing that can make a difference is your additives. I like star tron, or amsoil fuel stabilizer a lot better than stabil brand, stabil is a fine product for general purpose storage, say like a month or two, but if you go and try to get years out of this stuff you need a high quality stabilizer that is focused on internal oxidation basically a chemical reaction blocker like the amsoil product or star tron. Also temp and how you store the can matter a lot, as for storage keep the can out of direct sunlight and try to keep the room at 50 to 70 degrees, do not put the can on a metal or concrete surface as they are good thermal conductors and will cause internal separation or layering (wooden shelving works great). A good practise would also be to shake it occasionally to keep a good mix of the product. If you follow all my advice a few years is not out of question for saws and longer for engines of lesser design (push mowers, etc).

 

[ChainLightning]

Here it is . . .

ValvTect - ValvTect Ethanol Gasoline Treatment

Hey thats pretty cool. I think I am gonna look for some of that stuff. Says 8 oz will treat 60 gallons? Hell a whole bottle will last me about 2 or 3 years then! So you have been using this and it has not caused any trouble so far? Thanks for sharing

 

[lambs]

I may be a bit old fashioned but I still try to dump the gas out of the saw and run it dry if it's not going to be run for a while. Best ethanol damage mitigation there is in my book.

 

[cmarti]

I may be a bit old fashioned but I still try to dump the gas out of the saw and run it dry if it's not going to be run for a while. Best ethanol damage mitigation there is in my book.

I run 'em dry as well. I store gas in 15 gallon containers with 6 ounces of marvel mystery oil. I make my 50:1 mix from that container.
All these guys have no problem storing gas in the saws, but I have so many people bringing me OPE with dissolve fuel lines, and gunked carbs. I figure I would be one of the unlucky ones.:dunno:

 

[machinisttx]

Loss of octane in fuel leads to detnotaion aka spark nock. This will kill a 2 stroke piston in no time.

Rob

I don't worry too much about the age of fuel. Unless it's so old that it's turned to varnish, it hasn't given me a problem. I've run year old E10 with nothing added and had no problems. Some of my gas cans are the unsealed pre-econazi type and are the ones I use the most. I know other people with similar experience. My cheapo homelite saw has rarely seen fresh fuel, and though it hasn't been run an awful lot since I bought it a decade or so ago, the piston is clean and the cylinder walls still have factory honing marks(that actually surprised me to be honest).

 

[mikefunaro]

To the OP:

I don't think anyone really knows.

You're limiting the amount of air exposure of the fuel, which is certainly good. It's like closing up an opened bag of potato chips really well. Will they still go bad...eventually, but slower than otherwise.

It's unclear to me which aspect of ethanol in gasoline causes the most problems in chainsaws and similar equipment. The ethanol itself attracts water and can separate, but if you consult star tron and that sort of thing, they will tell you that the ethanol serves as a sort of detergent which frees up crud and this crud then causes the issues.

You are limited exposure to water in the atmosphere.

I still wouldn't go much more than 3-6 months.

 

[mad murdock]

Gal text products are top shelf, no snake oil about it. They have a full line of fuel conditioners from stuff for diesel to marine applications. Their biggest market is fuel jobbers and bulk users, that is why their products treat such large quantities of fuel with such small amounts of specific treatment. Way better than stabil, IMO.

 

[Bill G]

...................Oxidization accounts for only a small percentage of loss but can the oxygenates that are already additives in the fuel cause continuing oxidization even in a sealed container?.............

Well you lost me there

.....................

Fuel threads can be a lot like oil threads, lol.................

Now that I can agree with

 

[MCW]

I studied chemistry at university and don't recall anything in regard to petrochemical engineering and chainsaws being taught.
My question would be why make up and store more fuel than you plan on using over the next few months.

 

[nmurph]

Here are Valvtect's claims...they give a lot of wiggle room and don't make outright statements. The word helps implies some benefit but does not define the degree of improvement.

ValvTect Ethanol Gasoline Treatment is:

•Test proven to help prevent entrained moisture and ethanol in the gasoline from dropping to the bottom of the fuel tank, where it can build up and eventually stall the engine. It also
•Contains a corrosion inhibitor to help prevent the corrosive nature of the ethanol and moisture.
•Contains a powerful gasoline detergent to prevent intake valve deposits (known as gunk) and clean-up fuel injector deposits. In the U.S. EPA Deposit Control Certification program ValvTect's detergent passed the tests using the required BMW and Chrysler engines.
•Contains the industry's most effective fuel stabilizer that helps prevent oxidation and destabilization to improve the storage life of E10 or non-ethanol gasoline when sitting at the dock, on a trailer or when in storage for up to a year or more.

 

[HuskStihl]

I studied chemistry at university and don't recall anything in regard to petrochemical engineering and chainsaws being taught.
My question would be why make up and store more fuel than you plan on using over the next few months.

I've heard that the United Nations, a front for President Obama, is in final plans to invade Texas and take over all oil production and steal our guns. I plan on being part of the resistence (see "Red Dawn") and therefore will not be receiving gasoline rations. In between fighting for my freedom and the right to do rednecky things whenever I please, I will probably want to post some falling videos on AS, which will require good gas. If I thought we would be able to free Texas of UN forces in 2-3 months I'd leave it in the plastic container. As I fear we are looking at more than 1 year, I now have 8 quart cans filled with 40:1 Husky with a little stabil. If I buy any more, I'll arouse the suspicion of Eric Holder, who monitors my fuel purchases so this will have to do.
Thanks for your concern, and I hope Australia sides with Texas!

 

[Nitroman]

Use 100LL AV gas and forget the Stabil.

Never any questions with AVgas.

 

[MCW]

I plan on being part of the resistence (see "Red Dawn")

Are you a pimpley faced little schoolkid?

 

[HuskStihl]

Are you a pimpley faced little schoolkid?

Nope, hairy backed little old man

 

[MCW]

Nope, hairy backed little old man

After watching Red Dawn in my early teenage years I always hoped the Russians would invade my school and I could grab dad's .22 Magnum and head for the hills

 

[HuskStihl]

Same here, but with my 20 gauge bolt-action, variable screw choke (I kid you not) rusky eliminator. Good times

 

[taxidermist]

Well to add to this with a example...

Like we have stated here air tight is the key!

I always run everything my carbs dry on anything I put in storage. I have a honda Gen that had a tank of BP 93 oct fuel treated with startron, the carb was ran dry after last use (3to4 months ago) I pulled it out to make sure it was ready to go for my wife if we lost power while i was out of town. I noticed the fuel petcock was in the ON position....... I know for a fact I ran the carb dry. My 5yo son turned it on......UGH!!! I tried to start it and nothing,so off came the carb for a cleaning. It was full of alge from the fuel being exposed to air from the vented carb.

I cleaned the carb and with the same fuel in the tank it fired up and ran great. My son also did this to grandpas gen and it was full of alge too.

So even the best of the snake oils fail to fuel left exposed to open air.

Rob