Considering an OWB

[curdy]

OK, there's lots of info out there on OWB and I've read a bunch of it. I'm considering one, and was hoping to get some feed back specific to my situation. I have several sources for wood, so I'm not real concerned about that.

I currently use a wood stove insert and a summer/winter oil boiler to heat my home and hot water. Even though I use the insert to heat a large portion of the house, my bills are still pretty decent because of the areas that the insert doesn't cover, and my hot water...getting charged $3.59/gallon doesn't help either. I've probably cut my costs in half using the insert, but I'll most likely still run $3000 over 12 months for heat and hot water.

The space that I'll be looking to heat will be around 3000 to 3500 sq ft all with baseboard radiators. Currently I have about 2600 sq ft of space with radiator installed (one 400 sq ft room will need them installed at some point, and the other 500 sq ft is a walk up attic that will be finished off at some point in the next 5 years.)

The oil boiler I have is a nice Burnham with the additional hot water tank. I'd like to use it as a back up for when I'm out of town.

I'd really like to get my hands on a unit that was traded in or being sold by someone that doesn't want to use it to save some $. But I understand that this isn't always possible...or worth it. I have seen some Royall's on ebay, along with some others.

Central Boiler and Wood Master each has a dealer near me. Looks like they sell the size I'd need for about $5300 - $5700.

Is it crazy to think I may be able to grab a deal for a owb in good shape for under $4000? How hard is it to keep the current boiler hooked up for a back up? Any other advice is greatly appreciated!!! Thanks!

 

[Farmerjon]

" I've probably cut my costs in half using the insert, but I'll most likely still run $3000 over 12 months for heat and hot water."

You'll spend close to zero with the OWB!!

"The space that I'll be looking to heat will be around 3000 to 3500 sq ft all with baseboard radiators."

With decent insulation, the new CB's should be able to handle this square footage. Don't go cheap on size, better to be bigger than needed than smaller than needed!

"The oil boiler I have is a nice Burnham with the additional hot water tank. I'd like to use it as a back up for when I'm out of town."

Central Boiler makes a multi fuel stove that when the fire goes down and out, it switches over to whatever you have it set up for (NG or Propane).

"I'd really like to get my hands on a unit that was traded in or being sold by someone that doesn't want to use it to save some $. But I understand that this isn't always possible...or worth it. I have seen some Royall's on ebay, along with some others."

I wouldn't suggest this. As good as they are, why is someone getting rid of it? And if you save 1,000 - 1,500 dollars, without a warranty then find out something is wrong, not the cheapest route.

"Central Boiler and Wood Master each has a dealer near me. Looks like they sell the size I'd need for about $5300 - $5700."

At the current rate of fuel costs, it will only take you two years to recoup the investment on a new stove. Why go with someone else's headache? Make sure you are getting the best stove for your future plans.

"Is it crazy to think I may be able to grab a deal for a owb in good shape for under $4000? How hard is it to keep the current boiler hooked up for a back up?"

Can't help you with the hooking of the two boilers together, would seem your old one would have to have a flame to keep that water from cooling down. But don't know that. Sure you might find the diamond for less than 4,000. I just don't know if I would go through that headache and no I don't sell OWB, just know that my home and family depend on it, it is the only source of heat for our home, so buying used/cheap for once didn't enter my mind. Hope this helps.

 

[curdy]

Most of what you said has already past through my mind, yes. Especially the cost to operate...or should I say lack there of!

I've been pretty happy with purchasing used equipment in the past for lots of things, but I usually have a better idea of why they were traded in, and know they're in good shape.

There's a dealer out in Wisconsin that has a used Royall 7300. He said the manufacturer gave him the option to take it in exchange for cash they owed him. He figured he could sell it for more than he was owed, so he took it. He said its a little dirty from being used, but he's putting in all new electronics and a fan. Over all he said it looks like its in really nice shape. He made a big deal out of it having the firebox and water jacket made out of 304 stainless steel. Not sure how much this really matters?

Total with shipping would be about $3950. So it looks like it would be right around $1500 less than I would spend for the Wood Master given the fact I'd pay tax on that. I agree that probably isn't enough savings to make it worth it to me.

 

[stipton]

Don't forget install money. Insulated pipe, heat exchanger and probably a pro to cut into the existing system. Tack on another $1,000+++.

Also check with the local govt as to the laws pertaining to owb's. Being so close to the Philly area, they may not like the smoke.

Good luck and keep us updated on what you do. I turned mine off Monday since we have had this crazy 65 degree weather here. I don't miss the oil bills at all.

 

[curdy]

I plan on doing the install myself with the help of a plumber I know.

Speaking of the pipe, I know the heavy insulated stuff is pricey, but worth it...but once inside the house and out of the ground, can I change it over to other less expensive pipe and just insulate it myself? IF I can do that, I may be able to get away with less than maybe 30 feet of the expensive stuff.

 

[Husky137]

I plan on doing the install myself with the help of a plumber I know.

Speaking of the pipe, I know the heavy insulated stuff is pricey, but worth it...but once inside the house and out of the ground, can I change it over to other less expensive pipe and just insulate it myself?

-

Absolutley, My thermopex stops 6 inches inside the foundation wall and transitions to copper.

 

[curdy]

-

Absolutley, My thermopex stops 6 inches inside the foundation wall and transitions to copper.

Shweeet

 

[rx7145]

I would just buy new. You are going to have it for a long time might as well know the history of it.

 

[rx7145]

I plan on doing the install myself with the help of a plumber I know.

Speaking of the pipe, I know the heavy insulated stuff is pricey, but worth it...but once inside the house and out of the ground, can I change it over to other less expensive pipe and just insulate it myself? IF I can do that, I may be able to get away with less than maybe 30 feet of the expensive stuff.

Under ground I went with the good $11 a foot stuff. In the garage I buit a box out of a foam panel and put the lines in that, toped off with great stuff. Worked very good.

 

[bowtechmadman]

I have a Woodmaster 5500, no idea on others but I love mine. No oil in 3 yrs.
I have my OWB coming into a hot plate connected to my existing hot water system. I just unpluged the oil boiler when i'm gonna be gone I plug the oil boiler back in. Also heat my domestic water w/ the OWB...it's a water store tank that is heated as a seperate zone on my hot water system.
I also go to copper once it comes through the foundation...the radiant heat from it keeps my basement in the mid 70's just from the line coming in.
I'm heating about 4,000 sq ft and have a seperate pump going into the barn that I heat when i'm going to be working in there.
Good luck...I studied about 6 months and was down to CB and woodmaster before going w/ woodmaster.

 

[stipton]

Copper inside? Have you seen how much copper is these days? Go with pex once inside. You can probably borrow a crimper and only need a couple of copper 90's, A LOT cheaper than the old penny metal. The pex in my basement keeps it nice and warm too. Copper is almost non-existant in new home construction these days, being replaced with pex for domestic uses for obvious reasons.

 

[curdy]

Copper inside? Have you seen how much copper is these days? Go with pex once inside. You can probably borrow a crimper and only need a couple of copper 90's, A LOT cheaper than the old penny metal. The pex in my basement keeps it nice and warm too. Copper is almost non-existant in new home construction these days, being replaced with pex for domestic uses for obvious reasons.

Yes, I had thought of that as well. Probably something I'll be looking more into once I decide if I'm actually going to go through with this.

Can you guys give me a realistic guess on how much time you think is spent tending the stove daily? I'm not talking gathering and piling wood. I'm talking about loading it, cleaning out ashes, and anything else you might need to do. My first guess would be no more than I spend taking firewood from my stack inside, loading my stove, sweeping up dirt and ashes, cleaning out ashes and vacuuming the area once a week.

 

[stipton]

M-F 700am 10+/- minutes to load. 530pm 5 minutes to check the fire. 900ishpm 10+/- minutes fill er up. Sat or Sun 10 minutes to clean out ashes. Now if I could get my wife to help out on occasion......

 

[curdy]

Nice, that's not long at all.

I actually just called the township and they said there are not any regulations that would hinder the use of one.

 

[Wood Scrounge]

If you haven't check with your township, mine is giving me a hard time. Gotta love Chester county developers can do anything they want including building sub standard housing but they are hassling me for an OWB that I have not even installed yet.

 

[hanko]

OK, there's lots of info out there on OWB and I've read a bunch of it. I'm considering one, and was hoping to get some feed back specific to my situation. I have several sources for wood, so I'm not real concerned about that.

I currently use a wood stove insert and a summer/winter oil boiler to heat my home and hot water. Even though I use the insert to heat a large portion of the house, my bills are still pretty decent because of the areas that the insert doesn't cover, and my hot water...getting charged $3.59/gallon doesn't help either. I've probably cut my costs in half using the insert, but I'll most likely still run $3000 over 12 months for heat and hot water.

The space that I'll be looking to heat will be around 3000 to 3500 sq ft all with baseboard radiators. Currently I have about 2600 sq ft of space with radiator installed (one 400 sq ft room will need them installed at some point, and the other 500 sq ft is a walk up attic that will be finished off at some point in the next 5 years.)

The oil boiler I have is a nice Burnham with the additional hot water tank. I'd like to use it as a back up for when I'm out of town.

I'd really like to get my hands on a unit that was traded in or being sold by someone that doesn't want to use it to save some $. But I understand that this isn't always possible...or worth it. I have seen some Royall's on ebay, along with some others.

Central Boiler and Wood Master each has a dealer near me. Looks like they sell the size I'd need for about $5300 - $5700.

Is it crazy to think I may be able to grab a deal for a owb in good shape for under $4000? How hard is it to keep the current boiler hooked up for a back up? Any other advice is greatly appreciated!!! Thanks!

I dont have an OWB, I have a indoor forced air furnace, so Im not to knowedgeble on the sub ject but ihave been doing alot of reserch on them and looked at a half dozen or so. From wy reserch Ive founf that a Co named Shaver, has the one Id pick. No 1 it has a mild steel fire box thatis just shy of one half inch thick. Its also lined with fire brick. The grates are made of three qurter solid bar stock. They are allmost twice as heavy as anything else on the market. I do know something about steel. If you went stainless and the fire box has not been anealed properly, (who knows if it is) cracking will occur. No firebrick, cheap, thin gauge mild steel wwith a lot of welding. I dont know how much the shaver is probably expensive, but you get what you pay for

 

[curdy]

I dont have an OWB, I have a indoor forced air furnace, so Im not to knowedgeble on the sub ject but ihave been doing alot of reserch on them and looked at a half dozen or so. From wy reserch Ive founf that a Co named Shaver, has the one Id pick. No 1 it has a mild steel fire box thatis just shy of one half inch thick. Its also lined with fire brick. The grates are made of three qurter solid bar stock. They are allmost twice as heavy as anything else on the market. I do know something about steel. If you went stainless and the fire box has not been anealed properly, (who knows if it is) cracking will occur. No firebrick, cheap, thin gauge mild steel wwith a lot of welding. I dont know how much the shaver is probably expensive, but you get what you pay for

I noticed these for sale on ebay, but didn't know the name of it. Does anyone here own one of these that can tell us what they think?

 

[windthrown]

If you haven't check with your township, mine is giving me a hard time. Gotta love Chester county developers can do anything they want including building sub standard housing but they are hassling me for an OWB that I have not even installed yet.

Yah, a lot of states like WA, MA, NY have boiler and stove regulations. Also townships and cities, urban areas and counties. We have none here yet... fortunately. OWBs are not that common in the west US though. Far fewer than back east and in the midwest. Places like the SF bay area in CA allow NO WOOD BURNING APPLIANCES in new construction at all, and have not for 15 years or more.

 

[abohac]

Curdy

I have a Woodmaster. It has been in operation for 6 years now and I have had no problems. You can almost drive yourself nuts trying to make up your mind on this stuff, but there are a couple of things that I think are a must. 1. Forced air ( both front and back are best) 2. A decent way to clean ash (a grate and air pocket inside works pretty well for me) 3. A big door. Also, do not go by the specs. for heating (square footage). Get the biggest stove you can afford and fill it half as much. I can tell you that the stove you quoted (price) is too small for what you want to do. I have in-floor heating in my basement, garage floor and tiled areas of the house and have heat exchangers in two forced air furnaces. I heat about 3300 sq ft. I bought the next-to-the-biggest Woodmaster and have never been sorry (even though the dealer tried to talk me out of it). Anyway Hanko had some great points also. I have never heard of the stove he's talking about but I have not cared in 6 years either. If I can be of any help, let me know at [email protected]

 

[windthrown]

I noticed these for sale on ebay, but didn't know the name of it. Does anyone here own one of these that can tell us what they think?

Someone bought one of these and posted here or on MEN, and they had some real big problems with them. Royall was another big problem unit as I recall, guy posted here on AS with all kinds of problems. Smal OWB companies come a go pretty fast, so stick with a bigger brand that has been around, like CB or Woodmaster or the like.