Crane removals....

[treemandan]

Attached below is an article on "riding the pill" from TCI magazine.

Here is the whole archived issue of the magazine the article came from.

.

Thanks Hulkster, its been awhile since I've read it. That 18 ton, 120 footer seems to be the drug of choice for all these hotshot tree hustlers around here. The Dan abides.

Lets play guess the weight... I was taking things small while in the tree, I say this is around 800 lbs. So I would judge for 1000.

 

[treemandan]

These are older pics. I love this one. I should have rotated it before I put it on photobucket. One day, it will be the wallpaper.

Yeah , it needs work, sorry.

 

[jomoco]

think of a clock.

you set the choker at 6 the boom is at 12 you are at 3.

reach the saw around and cut 9 to about 1130 then (saw is still in the kerf) bring the saw back to 6 and push to 12. as you are almost done with the cut the CO should be tensioning the pick and as you finish your cut you will notice the wood is rising off the stem but still connected because you havent gotten to 12 yet. its at this point you should be able to tell if you can finish cutting to 12 or if you need to pull out the saw and finsh with a quick backcut/relief cut to set it free.


this is on a straight up and down piece.


if you have a big lateral and you got it strapped near the end and you are not just fast cutting to let it go (maybe you got a house or wires under the pick) put a scarf cut on the topside of the wood (piecut whatever you call it) and start the under cut. as you are cutting the CO picks it up and finish the cut leaving no holding wood. just dont rush the cut, let the crane continue to pick it up. that face cut you just made should be closed by the time you finish the cut.

there are so many different ways to do crane work though. i'd love to hear of the way others do.

great topic ghillie. if we can only get jomoco away from the political forums i am sure he knows a trick or two.

Well be careful what you ask for OD because here I am chuckling at the cuts described in this thread for crane picks.

Are you guys sure you want my input?

jomoco

 

[oldirty]

yes jomoco. i would love to hear from you on this one. in fact i hope you have a better way to do things.


if you plan on ripping me apart, go for it, i want to know how i can do better. keep in mind though its not as easy for me to explain things on the keyboard as it is in person.

ive seen some of your work and when you come to this side of the forum i look forward to reading what you say.

so, please give me some input man!

 

[tree MDS]

Wow "the dan", that sure is alot of crap hangin off ya there, lol. Interesting reading this one... crane work is cool no doubt. I still think the no access trees in the backyard are where a treeman shows his true skill. Its definately easy this treework, when you bring heavy equipment like that in. Unfortunately I have only needed one once so far this year. I'm not real expierienced with cranes, I've done like three crane jobs with my company. I wanted to make sure I would'nt embarrass myself is all- so I subbed out a buddy thats real good with that crap and just worked the ground and studied the technique. Last one I did myself, it came out of the blue- there was a spruce laying on a roof, well after we got that off I sold the lady on taking down this 65' maple that was all ripped up. It was awesome indeed. Just ride her up hook that sling, rappel down, pull line off crane tie in and hack. Then he would bring the crane back to me and lift me up again for the same process. Now I want something bigger, lol. In the early years (self employed) I would look at it as taking work away from me and my groundman, nowadays I can see the benifit as I'm busier and just want to get things done and move on to the next. If I get one by the end of the year I'll surely have my camera in someones hands taking pictures- then I'll force myself to figure how to post em. Hey if "the dan" can be walked through it WTF!!

 

[jomoco]

yes jomoco. i would love to hear from you on this one. in fact i hope you have a better way to do things.


if you plan on ripping me apart, go for it, i want to know how i can do better. keep in mind though its not as easy for me to explain things on the keyboard as it is in person.

ive seen some of your work and when you come to this side of the forum i look forward to reading what you say.

so, please give me some input man!

Fear not OD, I may be a heartless monster in the political forum, but here I try to genuinely either learn or teach a few tricks that I hope provide benefit to climbers sincere in their wish to learn.

The first thing that struck me about this thread was the descriptions for release cuts on large dia pole picks being downright dangerous, particularly for the climber making the cut!

If you are in big vertical wood in the 2-4 ft range taking big picks and not making your release cuts properly, it is simply a matter of time before it bites you in the azz, particularly using large powerful cranes.

The danger is a reverse barber chair going down the wood past your steel core lanyard, tearing off and squishing you against the wood, perhaps even fatally.

This can be easily avoided with the proper release cut, and this is how I do it every time as if my very life depended on it.

Let's use the clock analogy used in this thread previously with the crane at high noon 12. I start my cut also at 12 with the crane behind be and minimum up tension being applied by the crane, I cut about 1/3rd through the pick, then work my way around to the other side in either direction without ever taking my saw out of the cut, it is at the point I pass the 6 oclock point heading in either the 9 or 3 oclock direction that I make my estimation of what the pick actually weighs and radio the crane op to apply that amount of tension to the pick before continuing to the actual release point at either 9 or 3 oclock.

This method ensures no nasty reverse barber chairs and no climbers spitting their guts out pinned against the remaining tree.

Once your ability to accurately guess the pick weights of varying wood species and sizes gets accurate, you will be able to move big wood exactly where you want it like a very heavy duty ballerina guys.

I hope this helps you guys avoid unnecessary injuries and work safer.

Two way radio communication is an absolute must for anyone that does crane removals on a regular basis. The best radio setup I've found is the Peltor Pro Comm plus integrated hard hat system in the PTT mode.

Work safe guys!

jomoco

 

[treemandan]

Wow "the dan", that sure is alot of crap hangin off ya there, lol. Interesting reading this one... crane work is cool no doubt. I still think the no access trees in the backyard are where a treeman shows his true skill. Its definately easy this treework, when you bring heavy equipment like that in. Unfortunately I have only needed one once so far this year. I'm not real expierienced with cranes, I've done like three crane jobs with my company. I wanted to make sure I would'nt embarrass myself is all- so I subbed out a buddy thats real good with that crap and just worked the ground and studied the technique. Last one I did myself, it came out of the blue- there was a spruce laying on a roof, well after we got that off I sold the lady on taking down this 65' maple that was all ripped up. It was awesome indeed. Just ride her up hook that sling, rappel down, pull line off crane tie in and hack. Then he would bring the crane back to me and lift me up again for the same process. Now I want something bigger, lol. In the early years (self employed) I would look at it as taking work away from me and my groundman, nowadays I can see the benifit as I'm busier and just want to get things done and move on to the next. If I get one by the end of the year I'll surely have my camera in someones hands taking pictures- then I'll force myself to figure how to post em. Hey if "the dan" can be walked through it WTF!!

you should do the pics now. Everything you do is amazing, you are going to need to remind yourself of that when you are 90. Yeah there ain't much more to crane work than that though its like when a climber starts to use a bucket- you have to be diverse. Like I said, " Anybody got a wiffle ball bat?"
Now at over a G a day we will see just how easy it is.

 

[tree MDS]

Dan I truely doubt I'll ever see 90. But I really dont want to either, lol. Whiffel ball?? WTF??

 

[oldirty]

Fear not OD, I may be a heartless monster in the political forum, but here I try to genuinely either learn or teach a few tricks that I hope provide benefit to climbers sincere in their wish to learn.

The first thing that struck me about this thread was the descriptions for release cuts on large dia pole picks being downright dangerous, particularly for the climber making the cut!

If you are in big vertical wood in the 2-4 ft range taking big picks and not making your release cuts properly, it is simply a matter of time before it bites you in the azz, particularly using large powerful cranes.

The danger is a reverse barber chair going down the wood past your steel core lanyard, tearing off and squishing you against the wood, perhaps even fatally.

This can be easily avoided with the proper release cut, and this is how I do it every time as if my very life depended on it.

Let's use the clock analogy used in this thread previously with the crane at high noon 12. I start my cut also at 12 with the crane behind be and minimum up tension being applied by the crane, I cut about 1/3rd through the pick, then work my way around to the other side in either direction without ever taking my saw out of the cut, it is at the point I pass the 6 oclock point heading in either the 9 or 3 oclock direction that I make my estimation of what the pick actually weighs and radio the crane op to apply that amount of tension to the pick before continuing to the actual release point at either 9 or 3 oclock.

This method ensures no nasty reverse barber chairs and no climbers spitting their guts out pinned against the remaining tree.

Once your ability to accurately guess the pick weights of varying wood species and sizes gets accurate, you will be able to move big wood exactly where you want it like a very heavy duty ballerina guys.

I hope this helps you guys avoid unnecessary injuries and work safer.

Two way radio communication is an absolute must for anyone that does crane removals on a regular basis. The best radio setup I've found is the Peltor Pro Comm plus integrated hard hat system in the PTT mode.

Work safe guys!

jomoco

thank jomoco.


so what you are saying is that you relief cut first and then chase your cut to the release point?

(without sounding like i am saying i know what you mean after you say it so i sound like i know.....)

i try to (on the bigger wood), if i am on the 3 o clock, reach around the wood and cut the all the wood from the 9 o clock side until the wood is gone from 6-12 (tip of bar at 12 and the rear handle is at 6)and then cut the wood from 6 to 12 on the 3 o clock side to the release point(tip of bar at 9 and rear handle at 3). that way when i do get near the end of my cut the power head is not dogged in and i can pull the saw without fear of pinch.

is that what you would call the "box cut"?

the only reason i'd tell anyone to make this cut is to keep the bar from getting pinched.

i need a helmet cam. lol

i hear you though on the pinched climber choking on his guts. scary.

our crane is not that big. 27ton at the most. so we shy away from making the over under cuts that a bigger crane would have no problem breaking free.

my CO and i have a great working relationship though. before almost every cut we hand signal each other the way he wants the cut. ive found on the bigger stuff its easier on the crane to have the ball on the other side of the wood ( think ball, wood, boom) and that cut i described works out best to release the wood in a controlled manner.

on the ground for the butt cut its the same thing. if i dog in at 6 and remove that side of the clock (12 to 6) and then finish the cut dogging in at 9 to remove the 6 to 12 it'll come off clean.

i guess what i am saying is that i always want the ball on the other side of the wood from the boom. that way it gets "pulled" toward the boom as the cut is finished.


make sense?

and in all seriousness jomoco, i want you to hang over here a little more often than you do......33 years is along time climber and you have forgotten more than most know. help me out!

 

[oldirty]

Dan I truely doubt I'll ever see 90. But I really dont want to either, lol. Whiffel ball?? WTF??

is he on the run for what he did to the sheriff's daughter? "did it like this, did like that, did it with a wiffle ball bat"?


90 sure does seem like a long time........if i make it 70 i'd be surprised. i lived pretty hard and fast for quite some time. i dont think the ticker i got plans on living that long though. lol

 

[tree MDS]

The first time I cut from a crane I did half of a really nasty red oak tree on a lake with the deck jogging right around the trunk. My friend did half and then as he was finishing the wood from his side I headed up mine. A while latter he was helping guide me through this- I'm not a wuss I just wanted to be safe sinse I had never done it- on his advice I just used the 200T and cut straight through from the back (thes pics were mostly vertical), well the saw pinched and I got to look like a greenhorn for awhile till crane guy adjusted tention. After that I said screw this and grabbed the 372 (cuttin sweet) and just reached up and around the front and hacked 9 back over to 3 (or whatever, lol), pulled the saw out and started hacking even with my front cut from the underside of 9 back to underside of 3. Whew, that was tiring, lol. Then they came off sweet- I cant bear to yank on my 200T, lol. But I definately liked the big saw better.

 

[oldirty]

you really dont want to be using the smaller saws on the crane jobs. they dont have the bar or grunt to finish cuts.

i like to bring my 361 up with me, that is until the wood is big then its a bigger saw. and then bigger.....that 660 i got with 28inch bar is over kill to pluck tops but real nice for the stem. nothing like arm cramps in the tree!

 

[jomoco]

thank jomoco.


so what you are saying is that you relief cut first and then chase your cut to the release point?

(without sounding like i am saying i know what you mean after you say it so i sound like i know.....)

i try to (on the bigger wood), if i am on the 3 o clock, reach around the wood and cut the all the wood from the 9 o clock side until the wood is gone from 6-12 (tip of bar at 12 and the rear handle is at 6)and then cut the wood from 6 to 12 on the 3 o clock side to the release point(tip of bar at 9 and rear handle at 3). that way when i do get near the end of my cut the power head is not dogged in and i can pull the saw without fear of pinch.

is that what you would call the "box cut"?

the only reason i'd tell anyone to make this cut is to keep the bar from getting pinched.

i need a helmet cam. lol

i hear you though on the pinched climber choking on his guts. scary.

our crane is not that big. 27ton at the most. so we shy away from making the over under cuts that a bigger crane would have no problem breaking free.

my CO and i have a great working relationship though. before almost every cut we hand signal each other the way he wants the cut. ive found on the bigger stuff its easier on the crane to have the ball on the other side of the wood ( think ball, wood, boom) and that cut i described works out best to release the wood in a controlled manner.

on the ground for the butt cut its the same thing. if i dog in at 6 and remove that side of the clock (6 to 12) and then finish the cut dogging in at 9 to remove the 6 to 12 it'll come off clean.

i guess what i am saying is that i always want the ball on the other side of the wood from the boom. that way it gets "pulled" toward the boom as the cut is finished.


make sense?

and in all seriousness jomoco, i want you to hang over here a little more often than you do......33 years is along time climber and you have forgotten more than most know. help me out!

I just end up insulting somebody somehow everytime I visit here OD!

And no, a true boxcut would be suicidal on a crane pick!

I think you get the basic point I was lamely making bout release cuts starting on the crane side so that any binding occurs on wood already cut though.

Crane removals can be deceptively dangerous for guys just getting started doing them, and I'm sure I could write a book on the subject.

The worst injury I've ever had in my career in the removal biz happened with a crane with a stupid operator at the controls. It was a situation in which I specifically told the operator he would have to rotate each pick about 350 degrees to avoid damaging a remaining live healthy tree. After about 15 picks this way the operator decided screw this and knocked the big live green leader I had so painstakingly been trying to save off with his boom assembly so we would no longer have to rotate to avoid it. I immediately got on the radio to him and made it unmistakably clear to him that cranes are for lifting and that I do all the cutting. At the point this idiot operator did this boneheaded stunt there was only one final vertical pick left, and unbeknownst to any of us was the fact that in tearing that green leader off with his boom end assembly, he had knocked the cotter pin off the retaining rod at the pulley on the boom end. I was positioning myself to choke the last pick at the point the operator positioned the boom end 90 feet over me and the half inch dia 18 inch long steel retaining rod fell out of the boom end and fell 90 feet before hitting me on the left shoulder absolutely shattering my left clavickle bone and rendering my left arm useless and me in agony in the tree, completely clueless as to what the hell had just happened.

I've got the titanium holding the remnants of my left clavickle together as I type this to remind me to never work with amateur CO's, and you can bet your azz I never have since.

And this was after over 30 years of having never seriously hurt myself on the job, that's what my motocross bikes are for!

Work safe guys!

jomoco

 

[tree MDS]

you really dont want to be using the smaller saws on the crane jobs. they dont have the bar or grunt to finish cuts.

i like to bring my 361 up with me.

Yeah that was the feeling I got right off. I see in the allmark vids (white pines) he allways leaves a shelf higher on the back is that the safest because of potential butt kicking back?? Is that the way you do it? BTW "the ripper" (as I call it now) is running sweet and hasnt blown up yet, lol.

 

[tree MDS]

Jomoco that really sucks, my sympathies on that one! being hurt seriously by someone else's incompetence after all those years climbing must surely have sucked. MDS.

 

[oldirty]

Yeah that was the feeling I got right off. I see in the allmark vids (white pines) he allways leaves a shelf higher on the back is that the safest because of potential butt kicking back?? Is that the way you do it? BTW "the ripper" (as I call it now) is running sweet and hasnt blown up yet, lol.

i think he leaves the shelf so he can break it free and yes so it stays in the same place as he picks it. i used to make those cuts on bigger cranes ive worked with but not anymore because our crane is not that big.

 

[tree MDS]

i think he leaves the shelf so he can break it free and yes so it stays in the same place as he picks it. i used to make those cuts on bigger cranes ive worked with but not anymore because our crane is not that big.

So you would just go even or just one cut on the type cuts I tried to describe??

 

[jomoco]

Jomoco that really sucks, my sympathies on that one! being hurt seriously by someone else's incompetence after all those years climbing must surely have sucked. MDS.

Thanks MDS.

The hardest part was keeping my cool and getting off that stick with only one functioning arm, gathering my wits and gear, instructing the crew how to finish up, then driving my toyota stickshift tooltruck from escondido to la mesa's grossmont emergency room with only one arm. Morphine is agony's best friend.

jomoco

 

[oldirty]

Jomoco that really sucks, my sympathies on that one! being hurt seriously by someone else's incompetence after all those years climbing must surely have sucked. MDS.

damn jomoco! that sucks. glad to hear it was your shoulder and not your head though. stay safe man! and please dont hesitate to post in here. feelings be damned!

So you would just go even or just one cut on the type cuts I tried to describe??

(this is soooo hard to describe on a keyboard)


rarely do i cut the wood on the boom side first and then finish backside to the boom as this will get the wood to pop off and thats what we try to avoid. that causes the shock loading.


on big cranes you can make those shelves (over under cut). its the smaller cranes that you cant unless you are not worried about the equipment.

but anyway with the "shelf" you want to make it side to side so the crane go boom left or right to break it free. you dont want to do that over under with the boom because then it turns into a nightmare for the CO to get it loose.


help at all? lol

 

[oldirty]

Thanks MDS.

The hardest part was keeping my cool and getting off that stick with only one functioning arm, gathering my wits and gear, instructing the crew how to finish up, then driving my toyota stickshift tooltruck from escondido to la mesa's grossmont emergency room with only one arm. Morphine is agony's best friend.

jomoco

damn you one tough old bird!