DFI & TC-W3 2cycle Marine engine oil is good for Husqvarna Chainsaw?

[jkim13]

I just purchased this oil for my Husqvarna 450 chainsaw.

Wondering if this oil is ok for my chainsaw?

Thanks in advance.
Jkk

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I just purchased this oil for my Husqvarna 450 chainsaw.

Wondering if this oil is ok for my chainsaw?

Thanks in advance.
Jkk

View attachment 975357

Of course not. That is marine grade oil, designed for water cooled engines, and cheap oil at that. Air cooled engines run much hotter. No more gas than a chainsaw uses, I have never understood going cheap on your mix.

 

[jkim13]

Of course not. That is marine grade oil, designed for water cooled engines, and cheap oil at that. Air cooled engines run much hotter. No more gas than a chainsaw uses, I have never understood going cheap on your mix.

I have had a question in my mind all the time between air cooled and water-cooled engines oil
For example of 4 cycle air cooled small engines like mower, pressure washer, log splitter, portable generator etc.
I never saw any specific oil requirements for those engines but just 10-30 multi grade engine oil which is used for water cooled engines like cars, tractors etc.

I never knew or saw that the 2-cycle engine oil is totally different between the air cooled and water-cooled engine oil.
I have used marine grade 2cycle Pennz engine oil for my 3 Husqvarna chainsaws and echo 2 blowers and trimmer for more than 20 years without any troubles.

Yesterday, I stopped by Walmart to look for Pennz marine grade 2 cycle oil which I have used for a long time, but it was sold out. So brought that engine oil I never used before. That is the reason I asked.
Again, I am not a professional but just a homeowner operator.
If you have specific information about the air and water cooled 2 cycle engine oil and which oil should I use, please share it with me.
Thanks
Jkk

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Ok, this is the homeowners forum, where homeowners can ask the pros questions, just like it says at the top of the page.
As far as marine grade versus air cooled, that should be obvious, but we'll run through it. Water cooled engines run at much lower temperatures than air cooled, so they have different requirements. If you run air cooled in a marine engine, you will end up with a lot of sludge. Marine oil in air cooled, too much burns off and inadequate lubrication.
But I've been running marine for years with no problem, you say. Good for you. Knock yourself out. Little Tommy and little Jimmy both stuck pennies up their nose. Tommy sneezed his out, Jimmy had to go to the ER. Jimmy doesn't stick pennies up his nose any more... learned his lesson, went on to college. Tommy heard about Jimmy, but said didn't happen to me... he's down at the bar winning bar bets with a snot covered penny.
So, what do the pros do? In 30 years in the business, and I'm sure there was an exception somewhere along the line I don't recall, but we use pro oil. From one of the big 3. If we are running mostly stihl, we are probably running stihl, because we are there anyway, and time is money. Same way with husky and echo. We mix it 50:1 and run the pi$$ out of our gear, and never think about it.
So now what is going to happen is everyone and their uncle is going to chime in with everything from amsoil synthetic at 36:1 to I've been running my grandpa's old homelite mixing old motor oil I ran through grandma's pantyhose to get the big bits out, and it's still running strong... If you want to debate esoteric chainsaw topics, there is a big old chainsaw forum further down the page, and you can learn more about 2 stroke oil down there than Sheldon Cooper knows about the Flash.
On a side note...
This page was originally set up so that homeowners could get good advice from the pros, but kind of feels like lately it has gone a bit astray. If someone posts a question on here, that is what they are looking for. So feel free to post, but also be prepared to defend it, and don't get butthurt if a couple pros slam you for giving bad advice. Keep in mind, this forum is not debating the merits of the MCU vs.DCU. The entire purpose of this website is to promote and exchange safe and ethical practices in the arboricultural world, both amateur and professional, which also happens to be the most dangerous profession, and by far the most dangerous hobby in the world. If a pro on this site gives you advice, it is going to be based on industry standards and years of experience, not what me and my brother in law managed to pull off last weekend...
Ok, rant over, just something I have been wanting to get off my chest.

 

[jkim13]

‎좋아, 이것은 주택 소유자 포럼입니다, 주택 소유자는 프로 질문을 할 수 있습니다, 그냥 페이지의 상단에 말하는 것처럼. ‎
‎해양 등급과 공기가 냉각되는 한, 그것은 명백해야하지만, 우리는 그것을 통해 실행됩니다. 냉각된 엔진은 냉각된 공기보다 훨씬 낮은 온도에서 작동하므로 요구 사항이 다릅니다. 해양 엔진에서 냉각된 공기를 실행하면 많은 슬러지로 끝날 것입니다. 공기 중의 해양 오일은 냉각되고, 너무 많이 타오르고, 윤활이 부적절합니다.‎
‎하지만 난 아무 문제없이 년 동안 해양을 실행했습니다, 당신은 말한다. 잘했어. 녹초가 되도록 최선을 다하다. 리틀 토미와 작은 지미는 모두 동전을 코에 집어꽂아 붙였다. 토미는 그의 밖으로 다시, 지미는 ER에 가야했다. 지미는 더 이상 그의 코를 고집하지 않습니다 ... 그의 교훈을 배웠고, 대학에 갔다. 토미는 지미에 대해 들었지만, 나에게 는 일어나지 않았다고 말했다... 그는 가을 덮은 페니와 함께 바 우승 바에서 내려.‎
‎그래서, 프로는 무엇을합니까? 30년 동안 사업을 하면서, 제가 기억하지 못하는 라인을 따라 어딘가에 예외가 있었다고 확신하지만, 우리는 프로 오일을 사용합니다. 큰 3 중 하나에서. 우리가 주로 stihl을 실행하는 경우, 우리는 아마 stihl을 실행, 우리는 어쨌든 거기에 있기 때문에, 시간은 돈입니다. 허스키와 에코와 같은 방식으로. 우리는 그것을 혼합 50:1 우리의 장비에서 pi $$ 을 실행하고, 그것에 대해 생각하지 않습니다. ‎
‎그래서 지금 일어날 것입니다 모든 사람과 그들의 삼촌은 36:1에 암토 합성에서 내가 큰 비트를 얻기 위해 할머니의 팬티 스타킹을 통해 실행 오래된 모터 오일을 혼합 내 할아버지의 오래된 홈 라이트를 실행하고있다에, 그리고 여전히 강한 실행 ... 난소 전기 톱 주제에 대해 토론하려는 경우, 페이지 아래로 더 큰 오래된 전기 톱 포럼이있다, 당신은 에 대한 자세한 내용을 배울 수 있습니다 2 셸던 쿠퍼플래시에 대해 알고있는 것보다 거기에 스트로크 오일.‎
‎사이드 노트에 ...‎
‎이 페이지는 원래 주택 소유자가 프로에서 좋은 조언을 얻을 수 있도록 설정되었지만, 요즘 처럼 조금 길러졌다 같은 느낌의 종류. 누군가가 여기에 질문을 게시하는 경우, 그것은 그들이 찾고있는 것입니다. 그래서 게시 주시기 바랍니다, 뿐만 아니라 그것을 방어 할 준비, 그리고 몇 프로 나쁜 조언을 주는 당신을 슬램 경우 엉덩이를 하지 마십시오. 명심하십시오,이 포럼은 MCU 대 의 장점을 논의하지 않습니다. DCU. 이 웹 사이트의 전체 목적은 아마추어와 전문 모두, 또한 가장 위험한 직업이 될 일이, 그리고 지금까지 세계에서 가장 위험한 취미, 아보리 문화 세계에서 안전하고 윤리적 관행을 교환하는 것입니다. 이 사이트에 프로가 당신에게 조언을 제공하는 경우, 그것은 업계 표준과 경험의 년을 기반으로 할 것입니다, 법에 나와 내 동생이 지난 주말을 풀 관리하지 ...‎
‎좋아, 호언장담, 그냥 뭔가 내 가슴에서 하차하고 싶어하고있다.‎

Wonderful respond and information..
Now it is a little late but time to change to using real 2 cycle engine oil.
Thank you soooooo much.
Jkk

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Wonderful respond and information..
Now it is a little late but time to change to using real 2 cycle engine oil.
Thank you soooooo much.
Jkk

Wow, I am even more profound in korean...

 

[John Lyngdal]

I burned up a string trimmer years ago using TC-W3 oil.
Just say no.

 

[jkim13]

Wow, I am even more profound in korean...

Yes, I am a Korean American living here for more than 40 years.
When I read your comment, I felt like I was listening to one of the professor's lectures.
Thank you again,
Jkk

 

[cookies]

during spring time walmarts usually have vp racing 2 cycle oil on the shelf for 7 bucks. Thats what I run in the hotter months in all my 2 cycle air cooled equipment, its great and really inexpensive. Tractor supply has it year round for a buck fifty more if you can't find it at walmart.

 

[jkim13]

during spring time walmarts usually have vp racing 2 cycle oil on the shelf for 7 bucks. Thats what I run in the hotter months in all my 2 cycle air cooled equipment, its great and really inexpensive. Tractor supply has it year round for a buck fifty more if you can't find it at walmart.

Just ordered 5 bottles.
Thanks..
Jkk

 

[Captain Bruce]

Of course not. That is marine grade oil, designed for water cooled engines, and cheap oil at that. Air cooled engines run much hotter. No more gas than a chainsaw uses, I have never understood going cheap on your mix.

Hell NO! I use such an oil in my 40 hp. Yahama outboard, as it is oil injected. Defintely NOT of any use for mising with e85!

 

[torch]

Again, I am not a professional but just a homeowner operator.
If you have specific information about the air and water cooled 2 cycle engine oil and which oil should I use, please share it with me.

The professional engineer at the manufacturer shared all the specific information about which oil you need with you in the Owner's Manual. Look for a phrase like "Use API-TC specification", (or JASO-FD, etc.). Then all you need to do when you go oil shopping is make sure those letters follow the phrase "Meets the following specifications:" on the label.

So, if the Husky 450 owner's manual specifies TC-W3 then you are good to go.

I bet it doesn't, but hey, I'm just a random guy on the internet, what do I know?

 

[Screwbolts]

I say yes, use it!!!

I have no one to impress by spending big money on an oils label!!

I have been using that oil for over 30 years in all of my 2 stroke engines, Chainsaws, snow machines , outboards and Many RC Airplane engines! I use that oil in many/all of my RC engines Converted to spark ignition engines, that were designed for Glow fuels high oil content because these engines have bushed rods, no bearings in the rods.

oil specs:

Super Tech TC-W3 Outboard 2-Cycle Oil, 1 Gallon:

• Premium, high-quality Super Tech engine oil
• Specially designed for use in outboard motors
• Ideal for motorcycles, snowmobiles, chain saws and garden equipment
• Also useful for other fuel-lubricated or fuel-injected 2-cycle engines
• Container measures: 7.62"L x 3.87"W x 11.62"H
• Model number: WM06104P outboard engine oil
• Enhances lubrication, engine cleanliness and rust and corrosion protection
• Improves performance when used with low-octane, unleaded gasoline
• Anti-gel formula will not separate out or clog injector screens
• Can be used in either premixed or variable-ratio oil injection systems

As you can plainly see it is rated for all air cooled applications!

I currently have 4 gallons of it on the shelf in my shop. This is the only 2 stroke oil i use with 2 stroke petro fueled engines. This is the latest engine I have converted to ignition, it is .78 cu IN :



This is a very good oil and it will work fine for anyone that choses to use it and mixes it at the applications recomended mix ratio.

Ken, Central NY

 

[cscltd]

Can’t figure it out,,,,
“I want a good saw that will last, so I’m willing to spent extra $$ for a Husky, Stihl, echo over a knockoff 2nd rate brand”
2 months later,,,
”I use whatever crap oil is on sale cause I ain’t buying the whole oil is different thing done by manufactures and oil companies and not going to pay $.050 extra to mix up a gallon of gas.”

i am sure manufacturers hope you use Wally World oil, cause that means you may be buying a new unit sooner- they make more money on units than oil. Just like we tell customers to store their seasonal equipment properly so it needs less carb work- but the little voice in back of our head says ”I hope they forget, cause they will be back with their snowblower in 2-3 years for same service work again”

 

[CJ1]

For years we used whatever w3 oil that we could get by the gallon for the saws, close to 10 gallons or more of mixed fuel a week through 4 saws. All huskies and all ran hard especially when we were in pine thinning. Saws would get rotated out and sold every 2 years, so basically 1 full year of commercial run time. I really don't know how some of the 254's and 272's held together but we never had a lube related failure. We switched to 357's and 372's with the same results. I now run Amsoil Dominator in just about everything with the same great results. With none of the rust BS that the rumor mongers start. So take all of that for what it is worth. CJ

 

[torch]

This article from Spectro is a little bit dated, and oriented towards snowmobiles rather than chainsaws. But there are some parallels between the two and it does highlight the engineering process that goes into 2-stroke oil specs:

Most of the OEM manufacturers oils are produced by specialty lubricant manufacturers, not the OEM and these formulas are tested and approved by the manufacturer for use in their sleds. The oils are blended according to a formula that has been developed for two-stroke snowmobile engines and this oil is usually given a rating from the American Petroleum Institute (API) of "TC", the Boating Industry Association (BIA) rating of "TC-W", or the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) rating of "TC-W II." All of these formulas were originally developed for outboard engines and were modified to suit the needs of snowmobile engines; however, motorcyclists that used these oils found that their air cooled engines ran the best on the oldest API TC oils. These API TC formulas contained a higher level of bright stock 150, a high density petroleum base stock with a consistency similar to honey, that gave the best protection against piston seizure and bearing failure. To prevent carbon buildup in the piston ring grooves, these TC oils used metal based detergents that were very effective in motorcycle engines but caused some problems in outboard engines when operated at long periods of time at one throttle setting. A whisker-like bridge could form across the sparkplug gap to permanently foul a cylinder under these conditions while the motorcyclist operating his engine at a constantly changing throttle setting never encountered this problem. When the BIA developed the TC-W rating, they excluded the use of these metal-based detergents in favor of organic detergents to eliminate this problem in outboard engines. These TC-W oils (two-cycle, water cooled) also contained lighter base oils without the bright stock 150. For engines operating in the 4,000 rpm to 5,000 rpm range, the absence of the bright stock 150 had no affect on piston and bearing life. However, off-road motorcyclists testing these new TC-W oils were disappointed with the bearing life of their engines operating at 10,000 - 11,000 rpm and quickly returned to using the TC oils.

The need for a clean two-stroke outboard oil was recognized when piston ring groove carbonization was seen as a primary cause for engine failure and a new formula designated TC-W II was developed. While this oil was significantly better for outboard use and was phosphate free, it still was not the optimum two-stroke oil for engines operating above 8,000 rpm. The phosphate free mandate was from a concern raised by environmentalists that realized that outboard engine use could permanently pollute fresh waterways just as the soap industry was beginning to eliminate phosphates from their products for the same reasons. But, snowmobiles, motorcycles and quads do not emit their exhaust directly into the water, as outboards do. Recently, efforts to develop an even cleaner outboard oil have produced the latest NMMA TC-W3 and this oil, although containing no bright stock 150, has produced better levels of lubricity and cleanliness in piston ring groove areas, however, still not nearly as good as a purely 'snowmobile use' developed oil.

The BIA evolved into the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) which works closely with the outboard manufacturers. the NMMA mandated that all oils would contain non-metallic detergent additives, no phosphorus or phosphates, if they were to have the approval of the NMMA and the outboard engine manufacturers agreed to recommend only the NMMA approved oils.

Also, many marine dealers were concerned about the flammability and flash point of out board oils. Since larger engines were now consuming huge amounts of oil they had to stock several hundred cases of oil per season. This amount of oil stored in one location had alerted the fire marshals and insurance companies attention and a solution to this risk was addressed by the NMMA. Higher flash point oil with a flash point over 200 deg. F was what they needed to achieve a category 3B fluid rating, just enough to avoid the hazardous storage and shipping restrictions they were facing with all other two cycle oils. Oil manufacturers were forced to use TC-W3 additives or blends with high flash solvents if they were allowed to keep the NMMA license. The high flash solvents caused all sorts of unburned oil problems in engines, but the insurance carriers were happy.The combination of non-metallic detergents and high flash solvents in the new TC-W 3 oils later caused some severe ring sticking in many engines and Yamaha actually required owners to use a 'ring-free' fuel additive to maintain their warranty, a symptom of being forced by the NMMA to recommend the new oils!

This is almost exactly the same situation that developed with the American Petroleum Institute (API) and the Automobile Manufacturers. They were dealing with legislation that mandated exhaust emission systems to last a certain mileage under warranty and catalytic converter failure was known to be linked to the zinc-phosphorus content in motor oils. The API, in response to the auto makers, soon mandated restricted levels of these additives and is slowly lowering them. The problem was that motorcyclists depended on these zinc-phosphorus additives to protect their higher reving motors from damage and they were a victim of a legislation that did not even apply to them (very few motorcycles have a catalytic converter). Now snowmobilers are victims of this exact same legislative situation, the elimination of phosphorus from two-cycle oils. But they do not need to be! Why? Because motorcyclists and snowmobilers can buy motorcycle oils and snowmobile oils and bypass the restrictions placed on automobiles and outboard boats.

Sea-Doo and Ski-Doo didn't go with the NMMA, they refused to allow their engines to be destroyed and recommended to their owners NOT TO EVER USE TC-W3 oils! Polaris bought the TC-W3 sales pitch at first, recognizing an inventory advantage to having only one two cycle oil to be used in their watercraft, quads and snowmobiles. But they soon discovered the same problems many had already found with the TC-W3 oils when used in a sled. Ring sticking, exhaust port blocking and low temperature flow problems. Suddenly all those advantages of the TC-W3 oils they read about from the additive maker's brochures weren't working out when weighed against all the engine failures! Have you noticed they have gone back to purely snowmobile developed snowmobile oils? Currently there are not any snowmobile OEM's recommending the outboard NMMA TC-W3 oil, and there is a reason for this. They are not acceptable in today's powervalve equipped snowmobiles! Only oil companies with little actual knowledge of snowmobiles and their specific needs continue to try to sell snowmobilers an outboard oil for their snowmobile...and this is because they have a vested interest in doing so...economy of scale by combining several markets into one and selling just one oil. Do not fall for their sales pitch!

In Japan, engine manufacturers have developed a series of strenuous engine tests that can identify poor quality oils if they don’t measure up in performance. They tested over 250 samples of two-stroke oils worldwide and used the survey results to establish these engine tests. This became the JASO classification system. (Japanese automobile standards organization).

The tests include a detergency test, lubricity test, initial torque test, exhaust smoke test and exhaust blocking test. These tests have a much closer connection to actual snowmobile engine applications compared to TC-W3 tests which are all conducted on raw-water cooled outboard engines. And for the first time ever, an oil can fail the test if it smokes too much!

The detergency test evaluates the oil’s ability to maintain the cleanliness of critical engine parts, including exhaust power valves. This is very important on power valve equipped Rotax, Yamaha and Polaris engines. The lubricity test measures two things. First, the engine is run with a load for 50 minutes then the cooling system is disconnected for ten minutes and the resulting drop in horsepower is recorded. This cycle is repeated several times and each drop in power is compared and it must not vary more than a specified amount or be more than a specified amount. Then the engine is run with increasingly leaner oil ratios: 60:1, 100:1 then 150:1. If no seizure occurs and power is maintained within a specified percentage, the oil passes. The initial torque test measures the engine’s startability when cold, an important consideration for 3-cylinder sleds.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I say yes, use it!!!

I have no one to impress by spending big money on an oils label!!

I have been using that oil for over 30 years in all of my 2 stroke engines, Chainsaws, snow machines , outboards and Many RC Airplane engines! I use that oil in many/all of my RC engines Converted to spark ignition engines, that were designed for Glow fuels high oil content because these engines have bushed rods, no bearings in the rods.

oil specs:

Super Tech TC-W3 Outboard 2-Cycle Oil, 1 Gallon:

• Premium, high-quality Super Tech engine oil
• Specially designed for use in outboard motors
• Ideal for motorcycles, snowmobiles, chain saws and garden equipment
• Also useful for other fuel-lubricated or fuel-injected 2-cycle engines
• Container measures: 7.62"L x 3.87"W x 11.62"H
• Model number: WM06104P outboard engine oil
• Enhances lubrication, engine cleanliness and rust and corrosion protection
• Improves performance when used with low-octane, unleaded gasoline
• Anti-gel formula will not separate out or clog injector screens
• Can be used in either premixed or variable-ratio oil injection systems

As you can plainly see it is rated for all air cooled applications!

I currently have 4 gallons of it on the shelf in my shop. This is the only 2 stroke oil i use with 2 stroke petro fueled engines. This is the latest engine I have converted to ignition, it is .78 cu IN :



This is a very good oil and it will work fine for anyone that choses to use it and mixes it at the applications recomended mix ratio.

Ken, Central NY

I knew little Tommy would show up, predicted it.

 

[LesL]

I say yes, use it!!!

I have no one to impress by spending big money on an oils label!!

I have been using that oil for over 30 years in all of my 2 stroke engines, Chainsaws, snow machines , outboards and Many RC Airplane engines! I use that oil in many/all of my RC engines Converted to spark ignition engines, that were designed for Glow fuels high oil content because these engines have bushed rods, no bearings in the rods.

oil specs:

Super Tech TC-W3 Outboard 2-Cycle Oil, 1 Gallon:

• Premium, high-quality Super Tech engine oil
• Specially designed for use in outboard motors
• Ideal for motorcycles, snowmobiles, chain saws and garden equipment
• Also useful for other fuel-lubricated or fuel-injected 2-cycle engines
• Container measures: 7.62"L x 3.87"W x 11.62"H
• Model number: WM06104P outboard engine oil
• Enhances lubrication, engine cleanliness and rust and corrosion protection
• Improves performance when used with low-octane, unleaded gasoline
• Anti-gel formula will not separate out or clog injector screens
• Can be used in either premixed or variable-ratio oil injection systems

As you can plainly see it is rated for all air cooled applications!

I currently have 4 gallons of it on the shelf in my shop. This is the only 2 stroke oil i use with 2 stroke petro fueled engines. This is the latest engine I have converted to ignition, it is .78 cu IN :



This is a very good oil and it will work fine for anyone that choses to use it and mixes it at the applications recomended mix ratio.

Ken, Central NY

Just purchased a 362c-m and the instruction book is clear about any oil claiming to be okay for air and water cooled engines.

 

[cscltd]

little Johnny knows more than Mr. Stihl does!

 

[TOTALCHAOS69]

A buddy of mine burned up 3 Husky backpack blowers running quicksilver marine oil.