cheesncrakas
New Member
When you do deadwood jobs do climb out for the small dead tips?
do you climb to the tips?
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justa buzzid
ArboristSite Member
of course. if you can't get out to the tips then try to bring a pole saw up once you get to a good position. tough travels in the tree carrying a pole saw so maybe just have it sent up once you get to the tip work...
you are not doing the tree any justice if you doing only what you can reach from a crotch near the trunk.
you are not doing the tree any justice if you doing only what you can reach from a crotch near the trunk.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
If the job requires you to do the tips, you do the tips. That is what we do.
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
I hired a guy about fifteen years ago that made the comment on his first dead wood job for me "You want me to just get what I can from the center?"
TreeGuyHR
ArboristSite Guru
For a large a tree, I often specify in my contracts that all dead wood above a certain diameter and length (usually 2 in. and 3 ft.) will be removed, as well as weak and cracked limbs. I also specify that smaller deadwood will be removed during the course of pruning out the specified material. In addition, I'll chase down all deadwood on the underside of the lower limbs, since these are most visible.
I usually also specify if I am going to prune the entire height of the tree, or just inspect the upper canopy for big dead wood or cracked limbs (and remove them). There really isn't any point in chasing 1 in diameter dead limbs 80 ft up in a ponderosa pine, especially if they are in the interior of an otherwise healthy large limb. So I might say I will prune the lower half or two thirds of the crown, but inspect all of it.You can totally get your ass handed to you underbidding a big pine or fir, if you propose too much pruning -- that tree now could be a $2500 - $3000 job that will take a day and a half to two days. If that is what they want, great, but the client may be happy with 7 hrs of climbing (plus another hr or two for final clean-up) and a bill for $1800 -$2000.
Starting out, I proposed raising and deadwooding three big pondos about halfway up (these were dense, thick, 120 ft. trees 3 ft. in diameter that had never been pruned beyond being raised about 20 ft.) for $200 each. Took three days with two climbers (one alternating on clean-up), and about 12 pick-up loads driven to the green waste. We thinned and deadwooded each large limb, and climbed more than halfway up to get big dead limbs that were hanging down. All the deadwood shattered into chunks when it hit the driveway underneath, so we had to load it with pitchforks and snow shovels.
I asked for more money at the end of the second day, and the guy said he would see what he could do -- and then when we were done, he blamed his wife for not being able to pay more. That was a minimum $3000 job (2 guys, no chipper, about 60 man hrs.), and on the cheap side at that price.
Of course, I could have just cut the big dead limbs at the trunk to 60 ft. on each and come down, but the trees would have looked like crap. Guess I should have done that!
I usually also specify if I am going to prune the entire height of the tree, or just inspect the upper canopy for big dead wood or cracked limbs (and remove them). There really isn't any point in chasing 1 in diameter dead limbs 80 ft up in a ponderosa pine, especially if they are in the interior of an otherwise healthy large limb. So I might say I will prune the lower half or two thirds of the crown, but inspect all of it.You can totally get your ass handed to you underbidding a big pine or fir, if you propose too much pruning -- that tree now could be a $2500 - $3000 job that will take a day and a half to two days. If that is what they want, great, but the client may be happy with 7 hrs of climbing (plus another hr or two for final clean-up) and a bill for $1800 -$2000.
Starting out, I proposed raising and deadwooding three big pondos about halfway up (these were dense, thick, 120 ft. trees 3 ft. in diameter that had never been pruned beyond being raised about 20 ft.) for $200 each. Took three days with two climbers (one alternating on clean-up), and about 12 pick-up loads driven to the green waste. We thinned and deadwooded each large limb, and climbed more than halfway up to get big dead limbs that were hanging down. All the deadwood shattered into chunks when it hit the driveway underneath, so we had to load it with pitchforks and snow shovels.
I asked for more money at the end of the second day, and the guy said he would see what he could do -- and then when we were done, he blamed his wife for not being able to pay more. That was a minimum $3000 job (2 guys, no chipper, about 60 man hrs.), and on the cheap side at that price.
Of course, I could have just cut the big dead limbs at the trunk to 60 ft. on each and come down, but the trees would have looked like crap. Guess I should have done that!
For a large a tree, I often specify in my contracts that all dead wood above a certain diameter and length (usually 2 in. and 3 ft.) will be removed, as well as weak and cracked limbs. I also specify that smaller deadwood will be removed during the course of pruning out the specified material. In addition, I'll chase down all deadwood on the underside of the lower limbs, since these are most visible.
I usually also specify if I am going to prune the entire height of the tree, or just inspect the upper canopy for big dead wood or cracked limbs (and remove them). There really isn't any point in chasing 1 in diameter dead limbs 80 ft up in a ponderosa pine, especially if they are in the interior of an otherwise healthy large limb. So I might say I will prune the lower half or two thirds of the crown, but inspect all of it.You can totally get your ass handed to you underbidding a big pine or fir, if you propose too much pruning -- that tree now could be a $2500 - $3000 job that will take a day and a half to two days. If that is what they want, great, but the client may be happy with 7 hrs of climbing (plus another hr or two for final clean-up) and a bill for $1800 -$2000.
Starting out, I proposed raising and deadwooding three big pondos about halfway up (these were dense, thick, 120 ft. trees 3 ft. in diameter that had never been pruned beyond being raised about 20 ft.) for $200 each. Took three days with two climbers (one alternating on clean-up), and about 12 pick-up loads driven to the green waste. We thinned and deadwooded each large limb, and climbed more than halfway up to get big dead limbs that were hanging down. All the deadwood shattered into chunks when it hit the driveway underneath, so we had to load it with pitchforks and snow shovels.
I asked for more money at the end of the second day, and the guy said he would see what he could do -- and then when we were done, he blamed his wife for not being able to pay more. That was a minimum $3000 job (2 guys, no chipper, about 60 man hrs.), and on the cheap side at that price.
Of course, I could have just cut the big dead limbs at the trunk to 60 ft. on each and come down, but the trees would have looked like crap. Guess I should have done that!
600 for 3 days work? OUCH!!!! We all have not so fond memories of the nightmare jobs.
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
$600.00 for three days. In 26 years I have bid jobs sick, I have even bid jobs kinda drunk and I have bid jobs at night but I have NEVER came even close to screwing up that bad. I hope I never do.
Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yeah, like the new guy say's, the pole saw is the tip ticket. A bull clip works too. That and when it looks like it's just too much work, just make bigger cuts and move on, lol.
What up old man? Good to see you prowling.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Most Live Oaks only need to be dead wooded to look nice. I cut the bigger dead stuff that can be seen from the ground, but what really brings them in is knocking out all the little dead twigs, I hit them with my pole saw and just break them off. On a big pine I just take out the big stuff. If there are some less then 1 inch limbs up high I leave them. Oaks are done for looks, and pines for safety more or less. If its not going to kill you in a pine I don't mess with them normally. On an Oak I'll do every nuck and cranny, knocking out 1/8 inch twigs on every tip with my pole saw. It's really easy to over prune a live oak, but knocking out all the dead wood makes them look perfect. If you didn't do the tips the tree wouldn't be evenly done and look like sh*#.
TreeGuyHR
ArboristSite Guru
Believe me, I've gotten a lot better! Only written contracts, and I run them through a spread sheet first so I don't leave out an item or mark up in the bid. Nowadays, it would be $600 for two guys and a half day job, with minimal brush.In fact, I'm updating my spread sheet to include the 7 Workman's comp rates for different types of work after getting reamed with an audit.
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Believe me, I've gotten a lot better! Only written contracts, and I run them through a spread sheet first so I don't leave out an item or mark up in the bid. Nowadays, it would be $600 for two guys and a half day job, with minimal brush.In fact, I'm updating my spread sheet to include the 7 Workman's comp rates for different types of work after getting reamed with an audit.
The contract is important. I'm bad about getting lax on making sure we have a signed contract. One of my employees sold a job last year with no contract. We did what what we said we would do and the customer acknowledged that fact but refused to pay "just because I'm not." No contract, no real recourse.
At least he asked!!!
Youngbuck20
ArboristSite Guru
Did a pruning job on 9 Norway Maples earlier this week, getting to some of those tips were a pain and the guy I was working with has been an arborist longer than I have so hes got the pole saw up with him and hangs it in the tree, wont let me use it cause im a "newbie". Could have had the job done so much faster if I had it! And a lot less wore out! Rant over. Yes you get the "tips"
Rant over. Yes you get the "tips"
old_soul
ArboristSite Operative
Those live oaks sounds like the pin oaks we have here. If you get a big one you can spend all day trimming it, cleaning the tips. 30-40 percent deadwood hanging way out at the ends.......
Once you get the center thinned, the tips stand out like a sore thumb, you HAVE to go out and get it lol
Nails is right about taking some bigger cuts, took me awhile to learn that trick:bang:
TreeGuyHR
ArboristSite Guru
Isn't that the case wheer you use an unmarked chip truck to "deliver 6 cubic yards of chips in his driveway?
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Isn't that the case wheer you use an unmarked chip truck to "deliver 6 cubic yards of chips in his driveway?
This queer wouldn't pay us one time and we brought all his debris (we told him it was his, he didn't know) back and dumped it in his driveway.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
You have to be carefull taking bigger cuts. I see guys who do a lot of commeral work or work for the big Company's get a lot of production using bigger cuts, the trees look nice too. The difference is a year later compared to small selective pruning cuts is the regrowth. The trees that had bigger pruning cuts will grow shaggier, and need pruning again before the selective pruning cut trees do. Making more, but smaller pruning cuts give the tree a lacier appearence. Each style has its place
old_soul
ArboristSite Operative
Hey I know what you mean, and i agree 100 percent. I try to not over thin the oaks, because of all the sucker sprouts. If you can keep the center somewhat shaded they will not grow.
But, its tough explaining that to the homeowner, who wants to see as many cuts as possible lol
I always feel like I'm in the tree too late for the "selective pruning", its a 60 year old tree and somebody finally decided to have it trimmed......cutting out dead limbs 20 foot long and 6 inches around......its hard not to take too much sometimes
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