Ethanol

[Cage116]

Well Now here in the united states I am told the EPA has approved the sale of Gasoline containing 15% ethanol:censored:. I am curious how this amount of ethanol in our gas will effect small engines like those in our saws?:angrysoapbox:

 

[jburlingham]

It's time we fire the EPA

 

[Cage116]

Agreed! :chainsawguy:

 

[angelo c]

It's time we fire the EPA

EPA
DEP
Dept of Education
The Entire Democratic Party

Just a few more off the top of my head...feel free to add more.

Back to your point....5% more Ethenol sure don't help a saw run better. MIght help a farmer or a lobbyist but not a tree service or firewood guy. Man I hope there is another Thomas Jefferson amongst us now.

 

[Cage116]

Amen Angelo! God help us with all these Libtards In charge of things!

 

[jwales21]

Good Grief! I wish they would at least give us a choice between straight gas and ethanol gas. That would show them what people really think of ethanol in gas because noone would buy it. But that would put the power in the people's hands and that they just can't have! Anytime the government mandates something it's never a good thing and usually against the will of the people.

 

[mikefunaro]

Alright back up...

it's the EPA's fault for wanting an oxidizer in fuels to make them burn more cleanly. The one that preceded this was MTBE which was contaminating ground water.

So the BIG AG Lobby and Big Corn stepped up and pushed CORN ethanol.

It has now been shown that there is either very little gain or an actual loss of energy in producing corn ethanol.

This increase WILL NOT improve any environmental aspect. You really only need 5% to get the burning improvement.

The increase is NOT the will of the EPA. The big corn lobby and big ag and those aholes at monsanto are all behind this.

The greenies dont even like ethanol anymore.

Once the business was started the lobbies pushed for guaranteed quantities of ethanol to be consumed by year. The calculations assumed more of an increase in consumption of gas over the decades, and so the corn lobby demanded an increase in proportion of ethanol so that their quantities can be met.

So before you go and vote all repub, ask yourself who does big ag, monsanto and big corn give more money to?

 

[Cage116]

Gosh its gettin so hard to scratch out a living now. All they can seem to do is make it harder. I agree why cant we have a choice? Why does it always have to be some kinda big mandate that we all must kneel before? Now what ma i supposed to do when my saw wont run very well on this 15% stuff? I am going to be forced to modify it in hopes it will still run. Which adds cost to me in both time and parts.

 

[o8f150]

been several years ago but chevron was tested and had over 30% ethanol,, i would be willing to bet there is more then 10% in all the gas,,probably more then 20%

 

[mikefunaro]

The key here is that the EPA "approved" this, they did not solicit this. They approved it because they are weak and would probably get sued if the tried to stop it/were probably under strong pressure to do so.

But do understand that a "republican" or non existent EPA is not going to stop the ethanol from happening. It will make it easier. Big corn and big ag and monsanto run the repub party much more than any of you do with chainsaws and lawn mowers.

 

[sawkiller]

Alright back up...

it's the EPA's fault for wanting an oxidizer in fuels to make them burn more cleanly. The one that preceded this was MTBE which was contaminating ground water.

So the BIG AG Lobby and Big Corn stepped up and pushed CORN ethanol.

It has now been shown that there is either very little gain or an actual loss of energy in producing corn ethanol.

This increase WILL NOT improve any environmental aspect. You really only need 5% to get the burning improvement.

The increase is NOT the will of the EPA. The big corn lobby and big ag and those aholes at monsanto are all behind this.

The greenies dont even like ethanol anymore.

Once the business was started the lobbies pushed for guaranteed quantities of ethanol to be consumed by year. The calculations assumed more of an increase in consumption of gas over the decades, and so the corn lobby demanded an increase in proportion of ethanol so that their quantities can be met.

So before you go and vote all repub, ask yourself who does big ag, monsanto and big corn give more money to?

You got my vote! Mike for pres!

 

[Saw Bones]

I see a lot of fussin about the EPA, but no answers to the question.

 

[Cage116]

I choose to support no party repub. or Demoncat.. I think they both hurt us just pick your poison....

 

[mikefunaro]

I choose to support no party repub. or Demoncat.. I think they both hurt us just pick your poison....

:agree2:

 

[mikefunaro]

Regarding the immediate and long term impacts

-increased ethanol content leads to increased idle speed. All saws not tuned for that level will have higher idle speed, and the clutch may engage at idle. Existing carb limitations with limiter caps will probably not be sufficient, your saw will most likely run lean even when it's at max turns CCW on the carb screws. Also leaner operation, so saws will be liable to increase above max recommended speed if their carbs are not adjusted and could seize in this way.

-increased ethanol will worsen current problems with degradation of fuel lines, carbs, etc.

-increased ethanol will worsen fuel durability; fuel will expire faster than it already does.

 

[rmihalek]

Hey Mike,

Looks like I found the SEF94 just in time! Hank's Marine, just west of Worcester MA, is going to stock this fuel routinely now. He told me he's sold over 50 drums of it since August.

Unfortunately, at $10/gallon for a 5 gallon drum, it's another hidden tax courtesy of big gov't (dems and repubs)!

 

[drkptt]

Regarding the immediate and long term impacts

-increased ethanol content leads to increased idle speed. All saws not tuned for that level will have higher idle speed, and the clutch may engage at idle. Existing carb limitations with limiter caps will probably not be sufficient, your saw will most likely run lean even when it's at max turns CCW on the carb screws. Also leaner operation, so saws will be liable to increase above max recommended speed if their carbs are not adjusted and could seize in this way.

-increased ethanol will worsen current problems with degradation of fuel lines, carbs, etc.

-increased ethanol will worsen fuel durability; fuel will expire faster than it already does.

Here's the DOE's study:
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/ethanol/blends_e15_e20_research.html

For the small non-road engines:

*

Performance varied considerably among the engines tested, regardless of the fuel used.
*

Higher ethanol content increased nitrogen oxides (NOx) emissions but decreased hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide emissions.
*

Engine and exhaust temperatures increased with higher ethanol content.
*

Three handheld trimmers operating with higher ethanol blends demonstrated higher idle speed—resulting from a leaner fuel:air mixture, which can be adjusted in some engines—and experienced unintentional clutch engagement.
*

Ethanol content did not affect durability in commercial engines and more sophisticated residential engines.
*

The effect of higher ethanol content on the durability of smaller, less expensive residential engines was unclear because a number of these engines failed.
*

In 2-cylinder engines, temperature and emissions variations due to differences in air-fuel distribution between cylinders suggest multi-cylinder, open-loop engines might be more sensitive to ethanol blends.
*

Although not specifically characterized, no obvious materials compatibility issues were noted.


The link to the full report is on that page. I read it a while ago and remember that it wasn't very comprehensive. They didn't test chainsaws because of the expense of proper dyno testing; they ran blowers and strimmers because they are self-loading. Also one or two cheap products seized while running straight gasoline while identical units ran fine on ethanol, making it difficult to reach any conclusion.

 

[Miles86]

It's not the enviro's its Monsanto, ADM and Growth Energy you can thank for this :censored:

EPA says 15% NOT approved for small engines so maybe we are OK?

 

[CentaurG2]

Been running 10% ETOH for years. Never had any trouble. Buy a tach and set your saws max RPM a pinch rich and you too will be fine. If gasoline is as poorly regulated as they say, I have probably inadvertently run 15% or 20% at some point in time. Again, the world did not end and my saws, blowers, trimmers and mowers did not explode or melt. I have also never seen fuel separate. I agree, it would be nice if we were given a choice as to which fuel we could purchase for our equipment, but I aint driving all over town spending or spending $20 bucks a gallon on fuel. Life is too short.

 

[Cage116]

It's not the enviro's its Monsanto, ADM and Growth Energy you can thank for this :censored:

EPA says 15% NOT approved for small engines so maybe we are OK?

I would be inclined to agree we are ok but what do you do whne all the fuel you can buy is 15%