Ever try an un-shaped grinding wheel to sharpen?

[Sawin]

Used to do it all the time. Never timed cuts, but it cut satisfactory for me.
Suppose I did it cause time was so limited. Was working 50+ hrs a week. family, etc., and cutting firewood when I could.

Used to use a file when the need arose, and after a few times I would true it up on the grinder.

It worked for me and and I would work "rite regular - faster than normal", in the woods, if you know what I mean.

 

[heyduke]

looks like that cutter would last longer in dirty wood,but cut slower

here's a picture of a sithl oil-o-matic carbide cutter. it looks like the face of the grinder was dressed flat. i've heard that these chains cut slowly. never tried one myself.

 

[Philbert]

here's a picture of a sithl oil-o-matic carbide cutter. . . i've heard that these chains cut slowly.

Problem with carbide is that it is so hard. If you shape it to a very fine edge it can be brittle and break off.

Philbert

 

[splitpost]

you guys seem to be all talking about different types of chain ,you cant compare square with round or even carbide,they should and do use different wheels and profiles..............

 

[greendohn]

I had never dressed my wheel until I found this place.
My grinder wheel had a severe "wedge" shape on the side that contacted the cutter tooth. For the longest time I had inconsistent "sharpened" results.
Since keeping the wheel "round" (dressed often) the old Foley Belsaw seems to be much more consistent.

 

[lambs]

If I'm using aggregate wheels, I check the profile before I start grinding on a chain and dress it as needed. With my CBN, no need to ever dress it since it's made from a steel blank and coated with CBN.

 

[heyduke]

Problem with carbide is that it is so hard. If you shape it to a very fine edge it can be brittle and break off.

Philbert

i wasn't advocating use of carbide, wouldn't waste my time with it. but the grind is something like we're discussing here.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Phil, I tried one more tooth to see what it would look like. Deeper grind (less gullet), and dressed the wheel more square. Also did a little better on the camera work.







I guess I don't really see any advantage to this method that jumps out at me. Maybe someone else will, I'm just a hack with a grinder.

 

[Philbert]

you guys seem to be all talking about different types of chain

We're just 'thinking out loud' and sharing ideas.

I thought I knew how a chain 'should' look until I tried the PowerSharp chains, learned a little about square ground chain, and looked into the old 'scratcher' styles.

This talk has made me think about comparisons with cross cut teeth on circular (carpentry) blades.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Phil, I tried one more tooth to see what it would look like. . . . I guess I don't really see any advantage to this method that jumps out at me

Thanks Steve. Great photos!

The trick would be to set up a controlled cutting test with conventionally ground chain.

My cynical side tells me that companies like Oregon and STIHL have already done this, and that is why they tell us to sharpen the way they do.

Also, that if we could sharpen square ground chain on a conventional grinder, people wouldn't be spending $1000 on a Silvey.

But if somebody is on to something, or comes up with a better or alternative way, I'm open to considering it.

Philbert

 

[Steve NW WI]

The company that made my CBN wheel shows a CBN raker wheel, which might be a square edge, but it doesn't show a profile pic. That, if this grinding style actually cut well, would almost be necessary, or I think you'd be resquaring a stone wheel very often to keep the square shape.

Mine came from one of our sponsors - I forget which one offhand, but it's made by Diamond Wheel, Inc. out of Chanhassen MN.

Perhaps I'll get bored one day and do a chain up this way, just for grins. Can always grind it back to stock, or just toss it.

I like the creative thinking you're always using, Phil. If everyone just did it the way it's always been done, we'd still be cutting wood with stone axes.

 

[7sleeper]

Phil, I tried one more tooth to see what it would look like. Deeper grind (less gullet), and dressed the wheel more square. Also did a little better on the camera work.
...
I guess I don't really see any advantage to this method that jumps out at me. Maybe someone else will, I'm just a hack with a grinder.

How does the chain cut?

7

 

[Steve NW WI]

I've no clue. I just did that one tooth (well, two now actually) on a chunk of broken chain. I was having a hard time visualizing what would happen if it was sharpened this way, so I just quit thinking and started doing.

 

[7sleeper]

I've no clue. I just did that one tooth (well, two now actually) on a chunk of broken chain. I was having a hard time visualizing what would happen if it was sharpened this way, so I just quit thinking and started doing.

And I had hoped you understood the clue....

Now go out and do a chain and deliver the proper comparison video so that we can let out exstatic comments on how dumb someone can be to sharpen a chain like that...

7

 

[Steve NW WI]

And I had hoped you understood the clue....

Now go out and do a chain and deliver the proper comparison video so that we can let out exstatic comments on how dumb someone can be to sharpen a chain like that...

7

"If" I were to sharpen a chain like that...it would need proper testing and peer review at something like, say, the Midwest Sawfest/IA GTG in a couple weeks.

 

[7sleeper]

Phil, I tried one more tooth...
View attachment 343213
...

After reviewing the pictures again, I believe that with a wider wheel it might be possible to get a more "square" ground look to it.

7

 

[Philbert]

The company that made my CBN wheel shows a CBN raker wheel, which might be a square edge, but it doesn't show a profile pic. That, if this grinding style actually cut well, would almost be necessary, or I think you'd be resquaring a stone wheel very often to keep the square shape.

There are a couple of different questions here:

- A 'un-shaped' wheel, which to me means one that is never shaped or dressed.

- A square (0r other profile, other than traditional round edge) wheel.

Your photos suggest that one might be able to put a bevel edge on a conventional wheel and almost (?) make it to the corner like square grind? Not sure if these grinders have enough adjustment to allow this. Something to try on a slow day . . .

Philbert

 

[7sleeper]

"If" I were to sharpen a chain like that...it would need proper testing and peer review at something like, say, the Midwest Sawfest/IA GTG in a couple weeks.

To bad I'm not around the corner to attend as a peer tester/reviewer!

7

 

[Steve NW WI]

We can arrange pickup at the Des Moines airport - you might get a direct flight to Minneapolis and I'd be happy to let you ride down with me!

There are a couple of different questions here:

- A 'un-shaped' wheel, which to me means one that is never shaped or dressed.

- A square (0r other profile, other than traditional round edge) wheel.

Your photos suggest that one might be able to put a bevel edge on a conventional wheel and almost (?) make it to the corner like square grind? Not sure if these grinders have enough adjustment to allow this. Something to try on a slow day . . .

Philbert

Something similar to this would bring the side angle up closer to 90, get rid of some of the hook, and with the depth stop just right, would keep a decent top angle.

Dang you Phil! I'm going outside. I've got stuff to do...

 

[greendohn]

Much more real estate on a 8" wheel.

An 8" wheel wouldn't fit my grinder, LOL!!. I'm going on at least 10 years on my current wheel, a "meteor" brand I think. I usually only sharpen my own chains, very occasionally I'll clean one up for a buddy.
The Foley sharpener is an old one. The chain clamp is angled and the clamp pivots left or right for the 22 or 30 degree angles I use. The chain clamp has to be moved forward or back when changing from the left to right cutters to keep the chain under the "center" of the wheel. It's not very intuitive, but it has served me well.