Falling slight leaner with a plain old bottle jack?

[Mountainman]

Greetings.

Although I am not a novice at falling, this is the first time in my 65 years down here that I am faced with having to fall two good-sized trees, one poplar and one sweet gum, both a good 36" or more at the butt. Looking for a cost-effective, feasible insurance policy to assure that they will fall where I want 'em to fall. And I can't afford a Silvey. Would a hydraulic bottle jack work SAFELY in a pinch? If so, would you recommend about a 4X4 inch piece of flat steel being placed between the tree and the jack to avoid the jack penetrating the tree itself as the jack does its job?

Thanks.

 

[Parkerpusher]

That should work depending on the lean. Where in NC are you?

 

[Mountainman]

Thanks. Mid-eastern NC, not far from the coast.

 

[Bearcreek]

Greetings.

Although I am not a novice at falling, this is the first time in my 65 years down here that I am faced with having to fall two good-sized trees, one poplar and one sweet gum, both a good 36" or more at the butt. Looking for a cost-effective, feasible insurance policy to assure that they will fall where I want 'em to fall. And I can't afford a Silvey. Would a hydraulic bottle jack work SAFELY in a pinch? If so, would you recommend about a 4X4 inch piece of flat steel being placed between the tree and the jack to avoid the jack penetrating the tree itself as the jack does its job?

Thanks.

How much lean are we talking about and what will they hit if they go the opposite way you want them to?

 

[Mountainman]

How much lean are we talking about and what will they hit if they go the opposite way you want them to?

Lean is minimal, and I might be able to wedge them over. Emphasis on the word 'might'. Damage from falling the wrong way would also be minimal.

 

[sean donato]

Nothing wrong with using a bottle jack, yes a plate should be use on the ram portion of the jack.

 

[grizz55chev]

Greetings.

Although I am not a novice at falling, this is the first time in my 65 years down here that I am faced with having to fall two good-sized trees, one poplar and one sweet gum, both a good 36" or more at the butt. Looking for a cost-effective, feasible insurance policy to assure that they will fall where I want 'em to fall. And I can't afford a Silvey. Would a hydraulic bottle jack work SAFELY in a pinch? If so, would you recommend about a 4X4 inch piece of flat steel being placed between the tree and the jack to avoid the jack penetrating the tree itself as the jack does its job?

Thanks.

Maybe some pics would help, try to show what could be hit if thing go wrong.

 

[ValleyForge]

Sounds like fun!!!

 

[Jethro 2t sniffer]

Have done often. Works mint

 

[Renegade32]

That should work depending on the lean. Where in NC are you?

Greetings.

Although I am not a novice at falling, this is the first time in my 65 years down here that I am faced with having to fall two good-sized trees, one poplar and one sweet gum, both a good 36" or more at the butt. Looking for a cost-effective, feasible insurance policy to assure that they will fall where I want 'em to fall. And I can't afford a Silvey. Would a hydraulic bottle jack work SAFELY in a pinch? If so, would you recommend about a 4X4 inch piece of flat steel being placed between the tree and the jack to avoid the jack penetrating the tree itself as the jack does its job?

Thanks.

I’ve used steel plates that are intended for use with lalley columns and also used the super heavy duty base plates that go between a railroad tie and the rail.

I did have one time when the small top of the bottle jack DID nearly punch a hole through the lalley column plate.

Be very careful.

 

[Oldtoolsnewproblems]

I'm not a pro, but if its only a slight lean I think people really understimate how powerful a wedge really is, and how much control a PROPER slice of holding wood will give you. And really a larger tree is easier to wedge if you're nervous because you can start your backcut and add the wedge long before the tree is free, and thencontinue your cut with the insurance policy in place.

photo is worth a million opinions.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Quit that bottle jack fiasco and go buy two things.
Shot line with something on the end to toss about a pound like a shot bag.
Go buy a 120 shot of 1/2" rope. Shoot the line and pull it over. Much safer and you won't even be near the tree. Cut it then fell it. A serious winch over 8,000 lb or a 3,500 or more, a com-a-long or Lugall also works nicely. It might be slower but it's much safer and the chosen method when working near any structures like homes or power lines. Climbers just go up and set the line and repel down.

 

[John Ellison]

I'm with the above poster. A pull line set at least 2/3 of the way up would be the best ins. Use wedges as you go for backup.
Have you sounded the trees for rot? Rot in the wrong place will make wedges or a jack usless. I dont know what tools you have but are you confident in your ability to make a clean notch in 36" + trees? It can be hard if you are not used to it and dont have a fairly long bar.

 

[Mountainman]

I'm with the above poster. A pull line set at least 2/3 of the way up would be the best ins. Use wedges as you go for backup.
Have you sounded the trees for rot? Rot in the wrong place will make wedges or a jack usless. I dont know what tools you have but are you confident in your ability to make a clean notch in 36" + trees? It can be hard if you are not used to it and dont have a fairly long bar.

I will admit that I'm a bit rusty, but I would have no problem dropping a tree of this size. And regardless of which way these 2 or 3 trees might decide to fall in the absence of due diligence, there would not be any serious damage anywhere. I would just prefer to have each tree fall in a certain direction to make limbing, bucking and cleanup as easy as possible. I would most likely be running a 32" bar on an MS440.

And thanks to all for the input.

 

[Bubster]

Keep in mind it takes a pretty big jack to do that.I have jacked a few trees over and an 8 ton just won't do it if much pressure needs applied.I would use a 20 ton and the thickest steel plate I could find for the ram end of the jack.Good luck and be safe.

 

[Woody912]

Quit that bottle jack fiasco and go buy two things.
Shot line with something on the end to toss about a pound like a shot bag.
Go buy a 120 shot of 1/2" rope. Shoot the line and pull it over. Much safer and you won't even be near the tree. Cut it then fell it. A serious winch over 8,000 lb or a 3,500 or more, a com-a-long or Lugall also works nicely. It might be slower but it's much safer and the chosen method when working near any structures like homes or power lines. Climbers just go up and set the line and repel down.

A rope 20' up in a tree with a comealong has an awful lot of pulling power and then combined with a couple wedges in the back and a buddy to gradually increase tension as you progress with the back cut. I have used chains to maintain tension.

 

[Lightning Performance]

A rope 20' up in a tree with a comealong has an awful lot of pulling power and then combined with a couple wedges in the back and a buddy to gradually increase tension as you progress with the back cut. I have used chains to maintain tension.

Go much higher and use the cable block @ 2-1
You want to be in the top third of the tree. Using the longest possible rope gives a shallow angle and more pulling power but hooking up low can leave a lot of rope stretch sending the weight backward before it loads the rope. Just be mindful of low shallow angles vs short steep ones. I like two or three to one. Twice the length away vs the height or more. 120 or 150ft shot of rope, go about two thirds up the trunk is pretty standard around here and kill it once loaded tight. Pulling off center is a none issue because a solid tree will follow the hinge. Dead or hollow not so much. A straighter pull is best on those if your not picking it apart with zip lines first before the stem goes down.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Not much to medium lean? Wedge it over.

More lean? Rope it over.

More lean and no possibility of roping it over? Silvey or hire a pro.

My opinion...if you can jack it over safely with a bottle jack, you can wedge it over with a lot less screwing around cutting a jack seat.

 

[Woody912]

Go much higher and use the cable block @ 2-1
You want to be in the top third of the tree. Using the longest possible rope gives a shallow angle and more pulling power but hooking up low can leave a lot of rope stretch sending the weight backward before it loads the rope. Just be mindful of low shallow angles vs short steep ones. I like two or three to one. Twice the length away vs the height or more. 120 or 150ft shot of rope, go about two thirds up the trunk is pretty standard around here and kill it once loaded tight. Pulling off center is a none issue because a solid tree will follow the hinge. Dead or hollow not so much. A straighter pull is best on those if your not picking it apart with zip lines first before the stem goes down.

I've always been restricted by how much ladder, I don't climb trees. I tension the rope, cable, or chains before starting the back cut and increase as the tree changes center of gravity.

 

[Jim K]

In my opinion the most important thing is to have a good felling notch and felling cut that are parallel. If they are not and you try to pull the tree with a line the tree will have a tendency to swing right or left and could actually fall almost 90 degrees on the radius of the line from the intended fall line.