Federal Airtight 264CCL Questions

[Justintoxicated]

The reason I bought one was because it was missing. Who know what the last owners did with it, perhaps one day I will dig it up in the yard.

I tried to get the top plate off tonight and it was going well until it came time to undo the bolt/nut that is under the front lip.

The nut is rounded (not by me) and I can't visually see any thread on the bolt/stud either. What I don't know is the seriousness of this problem. Is it a stud welded into the top with a nut on the end? What would happen if I were to break or cut it off? Fixable or would the whole stove be trash? I mean I have a friend who could probably braze a new stud there, but I really don't want to go through that effort.

I can't see what is under there so I'll wait to hear back from someone like raybonz who has removed the top.

I HAVE to remove the top at this point because i was hitting it with a mallet to break the rest of the sealant off before I realized there was a bolt. So now it's pretty much just the bolt that is holding it together.

 

[raybonz]

The reason I bought one was because it was missing. Who know what the last owners did with it, perhaps one day I will dig it up in the yard.

I tried to get the top plate off tonight and it was going well until it came time to undo the bolt/nut that is under the front lip.

The nut is rounded (not by me) and I can't visually see any thread on the bolt/stud either. What I don't know is the seriousness of this problem. Is it a stud welded into the top with a nut on the end? What would happen if I were to break or cut it off? Fixable or would the whole stove be trash? I mean I have a friend who could probably braze a new stud there, but I really don't want to go through that effort.

I can't see what is under there so I'll wait to hear back from someone like raybonz who has removed the top.

I HAVE to remove the top at this point because i was hitting it with a mallet to break the rest of the sealant off before I realized there was a bolt. So now it's pretty much just the bolt that is holding it together.

Essentially that is a short piece of threaded rod with a nut on it.. Mine came out very easy and if you remove the cat chamber 1st you'll have more room to work.. Mine had never been off before so the nut was fine and I used the correct size wrench to remove it.. I use neverseize on the threads when reassembling.. I suggest you consider replacing the cat bypass damper rope gasket when you get the top off (it takes 3/8" rope gasket about 2' long).. I also noticed a large gap near the front on both sides of the vertical part of the inner top casting and used scrap ropoe gasket to get those sealed and it worked well (right near where the outlet vents are located.. Look at thos links I posted to get a better idea of what I am talking about..

Ray

 

[Wood Doctor]

Thanx Ed! I never empty my ashbin because this stove runs best with it full.. I shovel out from the side door and it takes a couple minutes.. The original center grate lasted 22 yrs. here and it heved upward and finally broke in two.. I could have run it that way but figured I'd make it right..

Hope all is well with you!

Ray

Thanks Ray, I tried also using a "hybrid" approach and this works. I usually relight the fire in the morning or just rejuvenate it. Before I do, I empty the ash box because the ashes are almost cool at that point. Then I rake smooth the warm (and sometimes hot) coals in the firebox, mixing those with any unburnt cinders. Then I relight the fire.

Lo and behold, this procedure completely eliminates unburnt cinders and the ashes that I shovel at the onset are a fine powder. I believe that's because the morning raking drops some small cinders down into the ash pit, and those ignite during the peak fire time as hot coals drop through from above. :musical-note:

 

[Justintoxicated]

Essentially that is a short piece of threaded rod with a nut on it.. Mine came out very easy and if you remove the cat chamber 1st you'll have more room to work.. Mine had never been off before so the nut was fine and I used the correct size wrench to remove it.. I use neverseize on the threads when reassembling.. I suggest you consider replacing the cat bypass damper rope gasket when you get the top off (it takes 3/8" rope gasket about 2' long).. I also noticed a large gap near the front on both sides of the vertical part of the inner top casting and used scrap ropoe gasket to get those sealed and it worked well (right near where the outlet vents are located.. Look at thos links I posted to get a better idea of what I am talking about..

Ray

Is the short piece of rod threaded into the top? I think I either need to cut off or break the bolt off, it certainly isn't going to come off simply using the correct size wrench. I'll snap a pic with my phone tonight since my camera won't fit in there. I cannot remove the cat chamber because it is not original and is welded (tacked) to the piece below it. I think it may turn into another hole that I need to drill out, so I just want to be prepared. The gap you were talking about between the vertical part of the inner top is where I noticed the leak that made me want to remove the entire top. I think I will cancel my order from black swan and instead order from Woodmanparts plus (that is if blackswan will let me cancel). Saves me some money. I'm contemplating re-painting the entire stove while it is out. I'm guessing 3 12oz cans of stove paint should do it.

 

[raybonz]

Is the short piece of rod threaded into the top? I think I either need to cut off or break the bolt off, it certainly isn't going to come off simply using the correct size wrench. I'll snap a pic with my phone tonight since my camera won't fit in there. I cannot remove the cat chamber because it is not original and is welded (tacked) to the piece below it.

It was threaded to the top however when I tried to loosen the nut the threaded rod with the nut came out as one piece.. I would think an ordinary bolt would work fine.. I believe the threaded rod was 1/4"-20 but I could be wrong so you need to double check that.. I have found that PB Blaster works great for stubborn bolts but mine have come out easily even inside the stove.. I don't see how the cat chamber could be welded in as the bolts that hold that piece in also secure the cat baffle located underneath inside the stove at the top of the inner firebox.. It must be a matter of principal as you are spending more to repair that stove than it is probably worth.. Good luck to you!

Ray

 

[Justintoxicated]

The cost or repair will indeed be more than the stove is currently worth. Although it should in the end be cheaper than buying a new one of similar quality. I'll take a picture of the welded cat chamber on mine. I already removed the bolts that hold the baffle under it so its certainly tack welded in place.

 

[Wood Doctor]

It must be a matter of principal as you are spending more to repair that stove than it is probably worth...

Ray

At this point. I have to agree. On the other hand, if he ever gets it working, he might enjoy the heat that you and I paid for 20+ years ago and enjoy today. And, these tools he bought will be applied to lots of other projects.:soldier:

Stoves usually become a part of you and others around you.

 

[raybonz]

The cost or repair will indeed be more than the stove is currently worth. Although it should in the end be cheaper than buying a new one of similar quality. I'll take a picture of the welded cat chamber on mine. I already removed the bolts that hold the baffle under it so its certainly tack welded in place.

The trouble with welding the cat chamber in place is that it was a replaceable and still available part.. I do wonder why they would have done something like that when 4 bolts went through the cat chamber casting, inner top and then threaded into the cat baffle...

Ray

 

[raybonz]

At this point. I have to agree. On the other hand, if he ever gets it working, he might enjoy the heat that you and I paid for 20+ years ago and enjoy today. And, these tools he bought will be applied to lots of other projects.:soldier:

Stoves usually become a part of you and others around you.

Ed check out this really nice fully restored 264CCL on Ebay:

Vermont Castings Cat Wood Stove Coal Stove PU/Ship, MA - eBay (item 290514785613 end time Feb-19-11 12:08:26 PST)

When I bought the same stove new I paid around $600.00 but I don't have the brass rail or warming racks..

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

JI. Man I thought I had a beat up frankenstein stove when I started messing with mine. You've definitly got me beat. In all honesty I would have thrown in the towel by now. I commend you for your perserverance and dedication and agree with Doc that the tools and knowledge are worth more than the purchase of a new stove. I just really hope you get this thing to a point that you can finally light a fire arty:.

I bet you could just cut that middle center bolt off and not worry about it again. I don't think it really adds much to the integrity of the top. As long as you use a liberal amount of the stove cement on the top when putting it back on you should be fine.

 

[bsearcey]

Ed check out this really nice fully restored 264CCL on Ebay:

Vermont Castings Cat Wood Stove Coal Stove PU/Ship, MA - eBay (item 290514785613 end time Feb-19-11 12:08:26 PST)

When I bought the same stove new I paid around $600.00 but I don't have the brass rail or warming racks..

Ray

Man that is a nice looking stove. I had no idea they had the side warming wings. It's definitely one of the older models too (pre-90). It looks like the whole thing has been bead blasted inside and out.

 

[raybonz]

JI. Man I thought I had a beat up frankenstein stove when I started messing with mine. You've definitly got me beat. In all honesty I would have thrown in the towel by now. I commend you for your perserverance and dedication and agree with Doc that the tools and knowledge are worth more than the purchase of a new stove. I just really hope you get this thing to a point that you can finally light a fire arty:.

I bet you could just cut that middle center bolt off and not worry about it again. I don't think it really adds much to the integrity of the top. As long as you use a liberal amount of the stove cement on the top when putting it back on you should be fine.

Brandon how ya been? If you have a chance check out a restored 264CCL on a previous post...Beautiful example of the the large convection! The cat insulation is still working well here.. Thanx again!

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

Doin alright Ray. Yeah I saw that stove. Good find man. Makes me wish I had a bead blaster big enough to handle my stove. I wonder where he got the warming plates from. I've never seen those on the parts website or even in the manuals I've looked at. It looks like the seller has had some interest in the stove as well.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Man that is a nice looking stove. I had no idea they had the side warming wings. It's definitely one of the older models too (pre-90). It looks like the whole thing has been bead blasted inside and out.

Brandon, do you see that round thing on the lower right-hand side of the picture with all the holes in it? Does it remind you of anything? Maybe this old beast?

 

[raybonz]

Doin alright Ray. Yeah I saw that stove. Good find man. Makes me wish I had a bead blaster big enough to handle my stove. I wonder where he got the warming plates from. I've never seen those on the parts website or even in the manuals I've looked at. It looks like the seller has had some interest in the stove as well.

I am pretty sure they were an option when I bought mine along with the brass rail on top.. Someone at the hearth forum found that stove on ebay.. I don't think that stove was used much as the inside looks like new.. Even the glass windows look new... The guy that's selling that stove is 2 hrs. from me.. I bought it at the headquarters store which was in Plymouth, MA. during their grand opening and got a great deal on it.

Ray

 

[raybonz]

Brandon, do you see that round thing on the lower right-hand side of the picture with all the holes in it? Does it remind you of anything? Maybe this old beast?

Ed I have one of thos down cellar that has never been used.. It is to replace the cat when burning coal or to run without the cat I believe.. I also have all the coal stuff unused down there..

Ray

 

[Justintoxicated]

The drillpress I wanted anyways. I have wasted money on stupider things before
Anyways, the Cat chamber was in fact not welded! I could clearly visualize the tacked spots in my mind, it must have been playing games with me!

It isn't too late to buy a new stove, but really once I cement the top back on and order the bolt on parts I think it should be good to go for alot less money than event he restored one on ebay.

Here was the nut I was trying to remove.

Rusted bolt holding top by Glamisduner, on Flickr

I did manage to get it off but... here is the stud when I removed it.

Stud connected to the top by Glamisduner, on Flickr

Needless to say, the stud needs to be replaced and snapped off when I tried to unthread it. (Yes I sprayed it with PB blast first). I'm thinking of getting one of those Grabits.

Amazon.com: Alden 4507P Micro Grabit Broken Bolt Extractor 4 Piece Kit: Home Improvement

Then resorting back to drilling out the bolt with the drill press if it does not work. This bolt does not appear to be quite as stuck as the ones that were in the doors.

On a brighter note, we have had record High temperatures all winter. It's been in the mid to high 70's all week. I was wishing for AC in my car on the way to work today, so at least I can take my time with this.

 

[Wood Doctor]

...Then resorting back to drilling out the bolt with the drill press if it does not work. This bolt does not appear to be quite as stuck as the ones that were in the doors...

Drill the bolt out with the DP using a bit that's smaller than the nut you removed. Tap the thread. (I assume you have a tap and die set. If not, buy one at Harbor Freight or Sears).

Welcome to machining. :disdain:

 

[Justintoxicated]

Drill the bolt out with the DP using a bit that's smaller than the nut you removed. Tap the thread. (I assume you have a tap and die set. If not, buy one at Harbor Freight or Sears).

Welcome to machining. :disdain:

Funny as it sounds, some of the bolts were so hard (possibly from being heated and cooled so many times?) that I had a hard time even drilling into them with cobalt drill bits and the doors clamped in the large vise. The amount of down pressure needed would flex the bit or un-center it. I tried punching the shafts, but this only bent my metal punches. Then again some of them were easy, I guess it just depends. I do have the two taps needed for this bolt (irwin alignment tap and bottom tap).

 

[Justintoxicated]

So apparently my local home improvement stores do not carry furnace cement in any type shape or form. They also don't care Roof Vent Caps (We removed an old asbestos pipe that was for the old water heater vent or something was draining into a can that was shoved under it, so that it looked like a can hanging from ceiling). My trip was a complete waste.

So since I need to purchase this stuff online I want to be sure I'm getting the right thing.

Amazon.com: Dap 18854 Stove and Fireplace Mortar 10.1-Ounce: Home Improvement

or

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Devil-0466-Fireplace-10-1-Ounce/dp/B000BQT4FU/ref=pd_luc_sbs_00_03_t_lh


Also would I need one or 2?

thanks!