firewood profit

[mswabbie]

28" DIB on the small end when you are using Doyles Rule. It is amazing that I cannot express myself so that someone can understand what I am saying. If you have two logs exactly the same size, you turn one into lumber and you get 500 board feet (One Cord) and a lot of waste then you turn the other log into firewood with no waste you should yield more than one cord of wood.

 

[glens]

I don't know what to tell you.  A log of the size you cited will not produce 1 cord of wood.  I don't know why you're so tenaciously hanging on to that 500:1 figure.

By pure displacement, a log 28" diameter (no taper) 14' long, contains 59.9 ft³ or converted to board-feet, 718.  That's no waste, naturally, for scarf/kerf when sawing the boards.  If there's 30% waste then that would be 500 board-feet, but as you see, it sure ain't no more than 2/3 cord (based on 92 ft³ solid volume).

Glen

 

[Newfie]

WTF are you turning a 28" log into firewood? Why fixated w/ Doyle? International is more accurate, although I think they should all be updated to take into account the thin kerf headrigs that most mills run.

The 500BF/cord is a rule of thumb not a scientific truth,FWIW.


How are you going to deliver this stuff?

 

[rmihalek]

quick test

Why not get one (or two) of those 28" diameter, 14 foot logs and saw it up into whatever length the customer wants, split it, then stack it, then measure it to see what fraction of a cord you're dealing with. You don't have to do this with all the logs, just one or two to get an idea. You can also leave the wood stacked so that you can show the customer: "here is the size stack that you'll get from such and such a log."

The calculations are valuable, but may not satisfy your customer. Plus depending on how you split and stack, the end result will vary. I like to split slabs from the rounds and then split square pieces from the slabs because they stack better in my stove. There isn't much air between these square pieces when I have them stacked.

 

[Mange]

I have a customer for firewood. He would like the firewood to be in logs. This is my dilemma. How do I know when I have cut enough logs to make seven cords. As you know each log is different and I am trying find a formula I can use in the field to determine how many cords are in a log, and the easiest measurements are average diameter and length.

I have heard repeatedly that there are 500 board feet in a cord of wood, so according to Doyles Rule you should yield a cord of wood from a log that is 28" in diameter and 14' long. It is my understanding the Doyles Rule takes into consideration, the taper of the log, the bark on the log and allows 1/4" kerf for each pass for the sawblade when cutting lumber. Now with all this waste using Doyles Rule, one would think that if you are using the entire log you should yield more cords of firewood than you would yield cords of lumber, but when I calculate using the formula "Radius Squared * Pi * Length / 92 I get less yield in cords of firewood per log which to me is not logical.

Bottom line is I do not want to short my customer, but at the same time I do not want to give lumber away and short myself.

A log 28" x 14' yields 504 board feet (More than a cord) according to Doyles Rule with a lot of waste for the kerf, bark and taper.

A log 28" x 14' yields only 0.65 of a cord using the formula "((average_diameter [feet] ÷ 2)² × pi × length [feet]) ÷ 92" and there is no waste for kerf, bark, and taper. To me if you do not waste anything you should yield more cords of firewood then you would lumber out of the same log.

I sure wish there was a smiley face of one scratching ones head.

If you would roughly estimate the volume and then be upfront with the costumer and say this, I think you will come to an fair understanding for both of you. If not, then there probably is no formula he will accept either.

 

[mswabbie]

Thank You all for your help. I think my biggest problem is that I got hung up on there being 500 board feet in a cord of firewood. I did not verify this and I should have. If the wood was stacked with no air space there would be 1536 board feet in a cord of firewood. If you allow 30 percent air space there is actually 1075 board feet in a cord of firewood, not 500 board feet. Using 1075 board feet in a cord of firewood instead of 500 board feet the calculations make a lot more sense.
Again, Thank You all for Your Help.

 

[Newfie]

Now I see where your confusion came in. You were applying the BF rule to the wrong pile of wood.

What I meant by my "rule" and maybe not clearly, is that a pile of logs that scale out with a log rule to 500 BF should, when split and stacked, produce roughly a cord of firewood.

I've used this estimating method for several customers and it does work.

 

[Chainsaw_Maniac]

I just bought a load of wood for $1800 (CAN) containing 45 face cord with the intention of reselling it at $75/cord. I was just trying to figure out if I am considering enough money for equipment, fuel, depreciation, and what my realistic hourly wage is doing this.

I find this funny:

I'm on the internet looking for tips on how to make firewood selling profitable. I was mainly looking for current prices of logs by the truckload and split wood. The funny thing is that I CAME ACROSS MY OWN FRIGGIN' POST that I wrote in 2004.

I'm lucky that I was even able to remember my password.

 

[Timberwerks]

Wow, it's been a long time since I've seen this thread. My first post was made here. I no longer sell firewood but seeing how things are now I wish I did. The market for hand crafted furniture is terrible, just no demand for it. There is however still demand for firewood. I should sell my woodworking tools and get another log splitter ;-)

 

[Sport Faller]

I just bought a load of wood for $1800 (CAN) containing 45 face cord with the intention of reselling it at $75/cord. I was just trying to figure out if I am considering enough money for equipment, fuel, depreciation, and what my realistic hourly wage is doing this.

I find this funny:

I'm on the internet looking for tips on how to make firewood selling profitable. I was mainly looking for current prices of logs by the truckload and split wood. The funny thing is that I CAME ACROSS MY OWN FRIGGIN' POST that I wrote in 2004.

I'm lucky that I was even able to remember my password.

Even for crappy, punky wood, 75 clams aint enough

I realize we're a helluva long ways away from each other but around here 1 cord of Larch is usually between 180.00 and 200.00 ( I was selling for 180.00 this past summer and was told by my buyers that I was on the low end of the price range) a cord of Doug fir is usually 170.00 to 180.00. Even piss fir and spruce go for more than 100.00 a cord

 

[madhatte]

Even for crappy, punky wood, 75 clams aint enough

He did say "face cord" but who uses that weird unit?

 

[Sport Faller]

He did say "face cord" but who uses that weird unit?

Ahhhh, I didn't see that. As I understand it, a face cord is basically whatever amount of wood you want to charge a given price for

 

[Chainsaw_Maniac]

Even for crappy, punky wood, 75 clams aint enough

I realize we're a helluva long ways away from each other but around here 1 cord of Larch is usually between 180.00 and 200.00 ( I was selling for 180.00 this past summer and was told by my buyers that I was on the low end of the price range) a cord of Doug fir is usually 170.00 to 180.00. Even piss fir and spruce go for more than 100.00 a cord

He did say "face cord" but who uses that weird unit?

Everyone here uses "face cord" as a measurement. I keep having to remind myself that the "full cord" is the common way of measuring outside my area (southern Ontario, Canada).

So I'm buying 13 cord loads and reselling them for $262/cord. Overall gross profit is $1200 (CAN). Total labour is 40 hours. I've got fuel and depreciation on all equipment, so I'm trying to figure out if this is better than working for a wage or not. The main advantage is being able to stop and start at any time between my other job (irregular hours) and random tasks.

 

[Chainsaw_Maniac]

Ahhhh, I didn't see that. As I understand it, a face cord is basically whatever amount of wood you want to charge a given price for

I find it to be a very accurate unit of measurement, perhaps more accurate and easier to measure than the full cord.

Again, if I here the term cord around here in reference to the 4x4x8 (full) cord, I'll ask where the person is from, and they'll tell me they are from out west or the US.

 

[bitzer]

A face cord around here is 16" x 48" x 96". Its just a third of a cord (4x4x8). Split seasoned hardwood goes for around $250- $275 per cord around here. You can buy in faces around here. You can also add the option of delivery for another $25-$50. Also stacking at another $25- $50. I'm sure you could figure out a few other ways to squeeze more out too. I sell my firewood to the guys that make the firewood (if that makes any sense) per truckload.

 

[BILLSFIREWOOD]

If your paying for bulk logs you will never clear a profit. Firewood is VERY labor intesive and takes alot of time. Bottom line is to make any money doing firewood you must get the wood for free!!!

OK I by bulk logs. I pay $50 a cord we sale it wraped for $475 a cord. We clear abut 50% of that. This year we will do over 150 cored. we find free wood is not free, your time , trucks and not knowing you will have the wood you need, it not good.

 

[LAH]

Free logs here normally dumped on my lot. I buck with a Stihl 034 that's been around a while. My splitter is a TW6. Purchased a used conveyor which takes wood from the splitter. If I need to the conveyor can load my dump should the wood need piled were the conveyor can't reach. After that I don't touch the wood. Customer loads their own. Short bed, bed level, unstacked $45, long bed $50.

I work part time for a friend clearing for homes, building, etc. I'm in hardwood country so it is mostly oak & hickory. I get paid to cut it & haul the logs to my lot. I have a large home & burn plenty of wood. So I process all the firewood I can, burn what I need & sell the rest. Win-win for me.

I'm a small time operator but do 'bout 100 cords/yr.

Two buddys looking on

 

[4b316]

We buy firwood logs from the local loggers.Have a 66 N600 Ford truck with a dump,hauls about 8-8 1/2 face cords of wood based on 16 inch wood.we have been paying about $18 a face cord and selling a load for $250 delivered.We haul about 2 loads a day on the average.Mostly hard maple,beech,cherry,hardwoods.

 

[LAH]

We buy firwood logs from the local loggers.Have a 66 N600 Ford truck with a dump,hauls about 8-8 1/2 face cords of wood based on 16 inch wood.we have been paying about $18 a face cord and selling a load for $250 delivered.We haul about 2 loads a day on the average.Mostly hard maple,beech,cherry,hardwoods.

Is that 250 for a face cord [16"X4'X8'] or 250 per cord?