First time grinding my own chains....few questions.

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Another vote here for hand filing. Like many others have already said, a chain that has been filed correctly will outperform any ground chain. I personally do have a grinder (it sits unused unless I hit a rock or nail in a tree). I also agree that when using your grinder it has to be how it works for you.
 
The average person will only make the chain more F'd up with a hand file.

I call BS, however you do have an out with the definition of "average".

brldvd said:
Another vote here for hand filing. Like many others have already said, a chain that has been filed correctly will outperform any ground chain.

I think that some guys can butcher a chain with a file, or a grinder, or a Dremel . . . as well as with a rock. It it works for you and your chains cut, that is a good place to start.

Philbert
 
Hand filing seems like alot of work and time with varied results to me. most people "average people"who dont have a grinder take their chains to a shop to have them ground. If you get your own grinder you save time, money, and your chains will last longer once your good at it. and you wont run a dull chain ever.

Can you use only a hand file the whole life of the chain? I think you need a fresh start once in awhile, and touch up with a file. And most aint running their saw in a hot saw comp. a grinder makes em good and sharp. I think you could master a grinder before you could master hand fileing. and the files cost money....... I love my grinder!!!
 
Hand filing seems like alot of work and time with varied results to me. most people "average people"who dont have a grinder take their chains to a shop to have them ground. If you get your own grinder you save time, money, and your chains will last longer once your good at it. and you wont run a dull chain ever.

Can you use only a hand file the whole life of the chain? I think you need a fresh start once in awhile, and touch up with a file. And most aint running their saw in a hot saw comp. a grinder makes em good and sharp. I think you could master a grinder before you could master hand fileing. and the files cost money....... I love my grinder!!!
I think you're the only one who understand what I'm trying to say.
I didn't mean to discredit hand filing.
I'm just trying to point out that the averager guys get more consistent sharp chains using a grinder than hand filing.
It just all depends on the person.
Anybody can use a grinder, know the settings, and get the chains sharp.
But not anybody can pick up a file and consistently make all the tooth sharp.
My dad for example, he is a natural born sharpener.
We often go steelhead fishing together. While wading in the river he would just reach down and pick up any rock from the river and hone his damaged hook tip to factory sharpness.
I have a specialized diamond file that I used to carry which was made specially for filing fishing hooks but I couldn't get my damaged hooks nearly as sharp as his caveman style. It's a reality so dealt with it and I just carry extra leader and replaced my hooks instead of resharpen them.
Then the knifes. He just use a simple water stone and gets all of our knifes sharp as razors.
My mom's friends refuse to pick up a knife when they come over. Because they never had such sharp knifes and they easily cut themselves so much the point that they refuse to help out with the cutting part of cooking.
His filet knifes are ridiculously sharp. I swear they're sharp as razors because he always sharpens them and test the sharpness on his arm hair. Piss me off everytime I use it because I would go right through the salmon backbone and not even know it.
Me, my brother, my friends, and almost everybody I know just can't get any metal blades sharp like my dad's.
My dad's friend had to go out and purchased a $300 electric knife sharpener inorder to compete with my dad's hand technique.
 
I've hand filed many chains from new to worn out. I just recently got a grinder. It's only used when the chain hits a rock or metal. I can't tell any difference in sharpness and cutting between the hand filed chain or fresh from the grinder. MAYBE a tiny bit faster cut with the hand file but I think that's because it digs in slightly better with the same raker height. I've never used a file guide either. Just freehand. My dad taught me to hand file in about 10 minutes when I was around 12 yrs old. I'm usually the one stuck with the 'sharpen the saws' job.
 
Iron Head copped a fair bit of flak for his comment about an average person's filing but he is correct.
When people grind and sharpen chains as part of their business you get to see what the average saw user classes as "filing". It is a horror story.
Not everybody who uses chainsaws as a simple tool even wants to learn how to file - I believe they should but in reality that's not the case. Some people just have no idea and have no ability to learn certain things.
I've also seen people think they are good at filing because the chain cuts better than it did before they filed it but I'm sure most people (including myself) would get a solid schooling if they actually compared their best chains to a true professional's chains.
Also what works in softwoods with full chisel doesn't work in hardwoods with semi chisel etc etc. Somebody who is good at square filing full chisel every day probably wouldn't be able to produce a really good semi chisel chain with a round file for use in dirty hardwood. You can also get away with a hell of a lot of errors on short bars and never notice a difference. If you get the left to right cutter angles out a few degrees on longer bars in larger wood most will notice that they may not be as good as they thought after cutting a curve.
I have seen so called "professionals" with 1000's of hours on saws who still have no idea on how to file a chain properly. Like that full time pro firewood cutter who brought in a Dolmar 9000 with a chain that had 45° on one side and something like 25° on the other. I can't remember the exact angles but everybody assumed this guy knew what he was doing because he was on saws all day. Alas...
Some people are sadly better off with a grinder and a properly used grinder can get very very close to a good round file job. Anybody who thinks they can replicate the accuracy of a good grinder with a hand file is kidding themselves (excluding bar mounted file guides) even though the difference in the cut may not be noticeable. It is no different to saying that you can replicate the accuracy of a lathe with simply a drill press and flat file.

To help answer the OP's question I tend to use 30/65/0 on my grinder which tends to replicate a round file better than 30/60/0. The extra 5° of hook does seem to cut faster but it also seems to go blunt quicker, especially on semi chisel in dirtier hardwood.
 
To be fair, the OP was not asking for another debate about grinding versus filing. He was asking for help with his grinder.

As for what method is better, just look through all the posts where someone finds a better method that works for them. Full of, "I didn't realize how bad . . . how uneven. . . . how much better my chains could cut . . . " type comments. Whatever method they had been using.

So if you reach that level of improvement by free-hand filing, guide filing, Granberg, Dremel, Timberline, 511AX, Maxx, knock-off grinder, Silvey, paying someone, taking a case of beer to your buddy, deep meditation, . . . enjoy making big chips.

If you are not there yet, search through some past threads, try to ask specific questions, and include photos.

Philbert
 
BTW, I am always interested in learning and improving my sharpening skills, which is why I hang around these threads. Sometimes a small tip will make a big improvement.

I can pretty much get the angles I want, but would like to learn how to be faster/more efficient, while still using conventional wheels and grinders.

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/202969.htm

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/197073.htm



I need to get better with depth gauges on a grinder.

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/200410.htm

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/172448.htm



I can touch-up file in the field if needed, preferably with a guide.



I can get really sharp cutters with a Granberg style file guide (but, again, am slow).

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/193630.htm



I am (still) working on a filing vise for home use.

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/120500.htm

- http://www.arboristsite.com/baileys/149917.htm

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/107942.htm



I like and use the PowerSharp chains on some saws.

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/125402.htm

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/148391.htm



I have started or participated in threads on each of these topics, and look forward to anything that people can add to them. I appreciate all of the things I have learned, and continue to learn on A.S.

Philbert
 
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