Free Trees

[goblin]

Thank you for your kind words - I dropped out long ago on this subject. Good luck with politics with these guys. You could tell by the way talk (the name you were looking for is socialist) they resent the fact that maybe someone could afford to have work done and give something away no strings attached (I believe that's call catholic charity). It's why you never hear of Muslim charities or atheist charities etc. I'm pretty sure catholics have cornered the market on giving something for nothing. I just need to learn where my market is and it's not here. Good Luck!

Unfortunately for you, Trish, the reality is once again different from your version of things. There are, in fact, plenty of Muslim-based charitable organizations, as there are numerous non-denominational/secular charities.

Boy, what a surprise to find out you're a Republican, Trish....the party of exploiting the unwary for their own profit and enrichment.

As for the comment about my sig.....
As long as people who imagine themselves to be 'wealthy' (but aren't) keep voting contrary to their own economic interests, the ruling wealthy elite keep laughing all the way to the bank....unfortunately at the expense of the middle class and poor.

 

[El Dia Octavo]

Goblin: Perhaps you could give me an example of how voting Republican or Independent is against one's economic interest? I'm in Michigan, which has been controlled by the Democratic party for fifty years. I cannot imagine a better example of a party doing the wrong thing than here.

 

[goblin]

Goblin: Perhaps you could give me an example of how voting Republican or Independent is against one's economic interest? I'm in Michigan, which has been controlled by the Democratic party for fifty years. I cannot imagine a better example of a party doing the wrong thing than here.

If you can't see how the past 7 years under Bush has been "bad for you" then I can't help you there.

As for Michigan's woes, harken back to the time of Reagan's efforts to break the unions, and how once the unions were broken the jobs were then shipped offshore. It was the steel industry in PA, the glass industry in OH, and auto industry in MI that fed off of each other. Once the unions were busted, the manufacturing jobs disappeared, the once great industries fell on tough times (as did the economies of the states that depended on them), and now you have states such as Michigan with no other way to raise revenue other than to raise taxes on the remaining businesses/inhabitants.

Democrats didn't cause Michigan's decline, greed did.

 

[excess650]

Goblin,
I was about to give you some positive rep for being right about Trish and her trees, but since you're spewing :censored: political rhetoric that I can't agree with I'll decline.:arg: :notrolls2: :angrysoapbox:

 

[Trish Parkes]

There are, in fact, plenty of Muslim-based charitable organizations.

Once AGAIN you are absolutely wrong. Muslims for example are only charitable to other Muslims not non-Muslims.

Salaam aleikum

 

[irishcountry]

Amen Goblin, greed has run rampant on both sides but it has been much more apparent the last 8Yrs. I love how the key words go right to socialism and communist when you say union or democrat funny how easy it is to program!! We seem to have socialism for the rich (and corporations) and capitalism for everyone else middleclass or otherwise bailouts for fatcats and who cares if "Joe schmoe" not the plummer that is, loses his home not because he's lazy but because his job is now in Mexico cuz someone at the top can make more money that way and it has happened here in Mi. with many companies that is greed not government!! In the words of a wise movie character "Thats all I have to say 'bout that."

 

[El Dia Octavo]

Goblin: I'm not trying to start a big political argument here - everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But the problem in Michigan is that the auto companies have not built a new assembly plant here in over 30 years (Chrysler's North Jefferson plant was the last one built). This is not to spite unions but because of unions. "Breaking" unions can not cause a plant to close...losing money causes them to close. That is a bitter pill to swallow but it is the truth.

The car companies built many plants around the country but not here. The jobs were not "shipped overseas", they were shipped to other states. ALMOST everybody in Michigan knows this - we have to live with it every day. On top of this, NAFTA was signed (I think by Clinton) and THAT was a disaster. I live on the Canadian/US border and let me tell you - it is impossible to get a visa to work in Canada but any Canadian can come over here with a note from his Mom.

You are right to be angry but you are angry at the wrong people. I'm not defending Republicans - I'm just saying they are not in charge in Michigan so its pretty hard to blame them.

 

[irishcountry]

Just to clarify I'm not just taking about Michigan and the Auto industry in my example that is just our state and close to home we have lots of family/friends in lots of states that are feeling the crunch with the economy its not just Mi. and its not just Mi. government it is nationwide sure some states are probrobly ok I don't doubt that but you can't deny its getting bad dear god people are just now admitting that the economy is anything but great. In our area people are moving out of $400,000 homes and its not cuz they sold it!! I know you could argue that people overspent because they could and that is true its human nature but that is only part of the equation its also fatcats at the top overspending the difference its seem to not be there fault so they get some more money to play with thats just my take maybe i'm way off. I am not defending any party either and i'm not saying Nafta was the greatest thing but how long has the president been the president?? I don't have a problem with republicans I have lots of friends that are die hards but I think it has to do with the leadership we have had starting at the top it has seemed like total ignorance, arrogance, greed and denial that has gotten us here the republicians this term have spent,spent,spent I thought republicans were suppose to be conservative?? For the record Mi's government has not done alot of good either and seems to be equally out of touch with "normal people!! Ok thats all folks!! No matter what party at the end of the day we are all still Americans and that I am still proud of!! Thanks

 

[goblin]

Goblin: I'm not trying to start a big political argument here - everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But the problem in Michigan is that the auto companies have not built a new assembly plant here in over 30 years (Chrysler's North Jefferson plant was the last one built). This is not to spite unions but because of unions. "Breaking" unions can not cause a plant to close...losing money causes them to close. That is a bitter pill to swallow but it is the truth.

The car companies built many plants around the country but not here. The jobs were not "shipped overseas", they were shipped to other states. ALMOST everybody in Michigan knows this - we have to live with it every day. On top of this, NAFTA was signed (I think by Clinton) and THAT was a disaster. I live on the Canadian/US border and let me tell you - it is impossible to get a visa to work in Canada but any Canadian can come over here with a note from his Mom.

You are right to be angry but you are angry at the wrong people. I'm not defending Republicans - I'm just saying they are not in charge in Michigan so its pretty hard to blame them.

Well, you're sort of right. There were factories built in other states, but they were largely Japanese automakers getting around the import tariffs by assembling the vehicles in the USA...out of Japanese parts of course, and assembled by non-union labor in non-union US states, primarily in the right-to-work (HA!) southern states. Again, more of the effects of Reagan busting the unions.

I'm not "angry", just stating the facts. And "breaking unions" indeed causes the plants to close. Once the labor unions are busted, then the manufacturer is free to export the jobs overseas where labor is cheap, loot the union's retirement and benefit funds, and leave their former workforce holding an empty bag. As they did in Michigan.
But don't take my word for it, go ask some oldtime auto workers what happened to their unions, their retirement, and their benefits. Ditto for the steel workers in Pittsburgh, and the glass workers in Toledo.

 

[olyman]

lets see---it started out as free trees--and again it turns political--right---

 

[aquan8tor]

Goblin: Your signature says "If 90% of the wealth is controlled by 10% of the population, then why would any wage earner ever vote against their own interests by voting Republican?"

We are all wage earners, some just earn more than others. I used to envy the carpenters when I was a laborer because they worked seven hour days and made more money. Anyway, all I can say is, as a rule, Democrats favor taxing "the rich" to help "the poor". This is a nice idea if you're poor, but it is too much like slavery for me. Anytime you compell someone to give you the fruits of their labor it is slavery. I'm not rich, nor am I poor and hungry, but I do know that I would not force a wealthy man to feed my family. I might ASK for help - even beg for it - but I would not force him. That is just wrong no matter how I look at it. So I guess your question is what are your real interests? If you are interested in character and honor, choose man by man (or woman by woman) who to vote for. If people want something they did not earn or an unfair advantage you can force it by electing people who will do that.

You're forgetting the fact that the FEW (read RICH) get all the tax breaks. They just call it "capital gains" on company stock, or personal holdings, investments, and get away with not paying taxes on it under republican gerrymandered guidelines.

Nobody should expect to get a free ride in life, but when you can tax the rich (more than 250K/yr) a little more, and eliminate corporate bull$hit tax breaks, and afford to give people earning less than $45K ZERO taxes, something is VERY, VERY wrong with the GOP economic standards.


Is it honorable to work hard as dirt your whole life and just get by, while you watch those that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth take that money and screw over people time and time again by running their investments into the ground and getting rich off it? OR , maybe taking what they earn, buying an "investment" with their earnings from a particular company's yearly profit, and not having to pay taxes on any of that profit because it is "re-investing" in the company. BUSH$HIT. Thats how some of the "gap between the rich/poor" gets bigger.

I hate people that feel entitled to something for nothing, and I think that people who abuse the welfare system are cowards and lazy, but there are people that actually need it. As far as healthcare is concerned, don't get me started. I'm in nursing school, and some of the crap I see at the hospital is because people didn't take care of themselves for years, or decades even, because they didn't have health insurance. These same people who still can't afford it are now costing you and me MILLIONS in tax $$ because they aren't well enough to be discharged from the hospital.

Slavery is working your a$$ off for someone else and never getting ahead.

 

[irishcountry]

Amen, like I said even another part of the equation! I know many hard working Americans freinds and family that have worked hard their entire life struggling to keep above water and its B.S. NONE of them want a bailout or would even ask to borrow money from anyone including "the system" but seems like that is the main argument for Republicans for we'll don't want BIG government do we Wake up its already here!! There has to be a better way than Left or Right we as hard working Americans need someone that sees RIGHT and plain WRONG!! Sorry this thread went political I will go back to watching for now. aquan8tor I'm with ya some do actually need help from time to time and thats what "the system" should be there for , abusers suck but we are a great nation and I think we can help when its needed just seems lately like its the wrong help to the wrong people (Fatcats)!! God Bless us all!!

 

[excess650]

I'll offer a slightly different perspective for you hardcore union guys. I have worked in union shops several times, USW. My father and friends worked for Bethlehem Steel. Some unions did little for the members other than collect the dues. Others pretty much forced the companies out of business. Caterpillar in York, Pa is a prime example.

I know that we always want more, and it just seems to be human nature. In the private and non-union sector, and employee must strive for excellence to be rewarded vs the union way of gradual, guaranteed progression. Back in the day when the unions were formed, they might have been good, but over the past 40 years they have outlived their usefulness.

Teachers unions and state employee unions hold the taxpayers hostage for guaranteed retirements, and all of the taxpayers have to foot the bill. My 401K was never guaranteed.

I know guys that work for the auto companies in Michigan. Hearing them talk a few years back made me envious for their paychecks. With their hourly wages, benefit packages, and all of the overtime they worked, they were doing way better than most. The prices of new vehicles reflected the wages and benefits, and we all knew that things couldn't keep progressing like they were. That is a big reason that I never was able to stay in newer vehicles. Now the autoworkers are crying just like the steelworkers or Bethlehem Steel and US Steel were in the late 70s and 80s. The reason is simple, as the price of the product rises, other sources will appear for a piece of the business. Sure, European and Asian makers have opened plants here. They've created jobs for the US citizens(a good thing) and lowered the cost of their products due to decreased tarriffs and decreased shipping costs(means competition for the US makers).

As for the tax breaks for big companies, and business owners, its called INCENTIVE. If they know that they can make money on their investments they'll create more jobs to make more money. If you tax the $hit out of them, the incentive disappears, a nd so do the jobs.

I'm a blue collar guy, and started paying social security tax in 1971 when I was 12, thats right, I was 12! Its time that a lot of people got their heads out of their a$$e$ and looked at the big picture. We've been drifting towards SOCIALISM since the 1930s. I can't understand why so many well to do folks in one party want to push us into that abyss other than to BUY votes from the same people that they've been USING for 50+ years with the promise of something for nothing. The only explanation is that its a total power grab. We've just been forced into a $700 billion bailout caused by a couple of "lending companies" FM &FM who basically blackmailed banks into making loans to those incapable of repaying, at the risk of being sued for racism. This was ONE party driving this, and overseeing this, and now the rest of us are forced to pay.

Like I said, I'm a blue collar guy. My wife and I have worked our a$$e$ off to pay for OUR house without help from anyone else. Home ownership had always been INCENTIVE to work, but SOCIALISM has the direct OPPOSITE affect.

If the Dems elect their candidates and they have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, control of the House, and the White House, the Supreme Court is all that might be able to stop them. Its a bleak future for ALL of us if this happens...unless you're one of the :censored: reliefers that's sucked the system dry for all your life.

 

[peter nap]

Right after I started milling, I saw a Craigslist ad...Free Trees. I emailed the fellow. It took him a week to respond and was stalling about giving his address. Finally I toldd him if he didn't want me to look at them, send me a picture or two. He did. There were about 25 loblolly pines all bunched together. A few had leaners and one had a widowmaker and a leaner and was 10 feet from his house.

He finally told me where they were. They were tall and skinny and when I checked them with the metal detector, it sounded off like a soccer mom in a traffic jam.

Then he started giving the rules. All limbs had to be haulked away or chipped, all stumps ground and all lawn damage had to be repaired. If that wasn't enough, I had one week to finish but could only work while he was there.

I told him his Free trees were too expensive!

 

[El Dia Octavo]

You're forgetting the fact that the FEW (read RICH) get all the tax breaks. They just call it "capital gains" on company stock, or personal holdings, investments, and get away with not paying taxes on it under republican gerrymandered guidelines.

Nobody should expect to get a free ride in life, but when you can tax the rich (more than 250K/yr) a little more, and eliminate corporate bull$hit tax breaks, and afford to give people earning less than $45K ZERO taxes, something is VERY, VERY wrong with the GOP economic standards.

I hate people that feel entitled to something for nothing, and I think that people who abuse the welfare system are cowards and lazy, but there are people that actually need it.

Again, I'm not looking to argue politics or which politician is better. My personal point of view is that Congress - as a group - betrayed us many years ago. Democrat and Republican alike - they are NOT looking out for me and my family. They take care of themselves first...and if any of us benefit, it's a happy accident.

But I am a CPA and, frankly, I know a great deal about tax. "Rich" people do not get some sort of weird tax breaks that you don't get. Businesses that "reinvest" profits really do "reinvest". And the tax on "profits" is horrendous - 39% - and that is before the money is distributed to the owner of the company...where it is taxed again at the owner's personal tax rate.

The rules that govern this are so complex they would give you nightmares. What is important is that nobody out there is getting a free ride these days. The rich are already paying way more than their "fair share". Whether anyone likes this or not is irrelevent - but the top 5% pay 80% of all the tax. That is just the facts of the matter.

We can be angry at rich people all day long but it is pointless. It takes a great deal of money to start a company - and the bank, contrary to popular belief, does not give rich people money and screw the "little guy". They loan money to people who have a pretty good chance of paying it back. That is the only thing the bank cares about. Yes, wealthy people start the companies or own the companies that the rest of us work for. So what. I feel no shame in working for them - and I don't feel shame in not being rich.

I'll say it again: To force one man to give up the fruits of his labors - even if those labors made him Bill Gates rich - is slavery and it is profoundly wrong. Some people STEAL the money they have and the job then is to find them and put them in jail. These people are the exception, not the rule. Just because someone is wealthy does not make them bad. My brother is a millionaire. I'm here to tell you he earned every cent. He is an honest, decent man who has worked 70 hour weeks for thirty years and now it has paid off. He has twenty people working for him and making him money. Twenty people that might not have jobs right now if it was not for him.

Slavery is having someone take something from you that you earned and giving it to someone else. It is not up to some dung-for-brains politician to decide who gets what or who is "worthy". This Robin Hood stuff is for fairy tales.

Now, I promise you I am going to shut up and mind my own business.

 

[deeker]

Right after I started milling, I saw a Craigslist ad...Free Trees. I emailed the fellow. It took him a week to respond and was stalling about giving his address. Finally I toldd him if he didn't want me to look at them, send me a picture or two. He did. There were about 25 loblolly pines all bunched together. A few had leaners and one had a widowmaker and a leaner and was 10 feet from his house.

He finally told me where they were. They were tall and skinny and when I checked them with the metal detector, it sounded off like a soccer mom in a traffic jam.

Then he started giving the rules. All limbs had to be haulked away or chipped, all stumps ground and all lawn damage had to be repaired. If that wasn't enough, I had one week to finish but could only work while he was there.

I told him his Free trees were too expensive!

I would have done the same thing.

Not worth his wisdom.

Kevin

 

[treemandan]

I am really not going to help the situation of course but I wouldn't mind seeing a picture of Trish... and the trees of course AND the look on O D's face when she spanked the living crap out of him.
Nice thinking Trish but the road the to hell is paved... and you never know what nutjob will show up at your door just be thankful it ain't me.
Reminds me of a story, here we go, again ( by the way Trish, I am The Dan,pretty much God's gift to, well, everybody, nice to meet you.Still here?)
So I was renting a room in a house outiside Pittburgh while I was in school, I shared it with other digenrerate college kids. One day nodoby had any weed, so someone gets the bright idea to ask Vietnam Dan, the vietnam vet who lived a few houses down with his mom. So it works out that Dan and all us are in our house smoking up and drinking till the wee hours until Vietnam Dan gets his trigger yanked and goes on a rampage. There is all sorts of violence and noise while this guy is trashing the place. We really didn't care but we were getting tired and a little scared because Don Mccollogh just went flying through the closet wall and landed in a heap practically unconscious. It ddin't look good and it didn't look like it was going to stop . We finally got this monster out by having another Don bait Vietnam Dan to chash him out the front door where we were waiting to club him. Vietnam Dan did end having a breakdown just as we were about to bum rush him out of the bushes and started crying. We all felt bad for him, we really did, he offered to get some steak out of his mom's freezer, we ate the steak cause we was hungry but we never let him back in the house again.
Careful Trish. I know the Dan's and the Don's get hard to tell apart but you get the idea?
hell, I just called up fo some heating oil, I got 300 gals. To bad it was dumped entirly in the wrong spot. We are up to 100 grand is losses by now easy.Wanna see what really happens when you get the wrong guys?

 

[irishcountry]

excess650 Points taken and I can see what your talking about too its just hard to see other down to earth good people who are not lazy still struggling at least from my point of view like I said at least we are all Americans and can have our own point of view without getting our doors kicked down and I know there are lots of good rich people out there too that work hard to get what they have. Have a good one i'm gonna hold to what I said in the first post and spectate now!! Have a good one.

 

[goblin]

Right after I started milling, I saw a Craigslist ad...Free Trees. I emailed the fellow. It took him a week to respond and was stalling about giving his address. Finally I toldd him if he didn't want me to look at them, send me a picture or two. He did. There were about 25 loblolly pines all bunched together. A few had leaners and one had a widowmaker and a leaner and was 10 feet from his house.

He finally told me where they were. They were tall and skinny and when I checked them with the metal detector, it sounded off like a soccer mom in a traffic jam.

Then he started giving the rules. All limbs had to be haulked away or chipped, all stumps ground and all lawn damage had to be repaired. If that wasn't enough, I had one week to finish but could only work while he was there.

I told him his Free trees were too expensive!

I think I would have told him more than that....like where he could put his 'free trees'.

Anyways, why do I get the nagging feeling that Trish's trees are a mirror image of the above version of 'free'?

The rule of thumb is....if you see the words 'free trees', it's generally a hazardous or useless proposition (or both) because if it wasn't, then the homeowner would have dropped the trees himself or had a friend of a friend or relative do it for them. By the time it gets to being 'free trees' the only ones left willing to do it are the high priced professionals or the unlucky dupes. Trish knew what the professionals wanted for the job, so she was trolling for dupes.

 

[olyman]

I think I would have told him more than that....like where he could put his 'free trees'.

Anyways, why do I get the nagging feeling that Trish's trees are a mirror image of the above version of 'free'?

The rule of thumb is....if you see the words 'free trees', it's generally a hazardous or useless proposition (or both) because if it wasn't, then the homeowner would have dropped the trees himself or had a friend of a friend or relative do it for them. By the time it gets to being 'free trees' the only ones left willing to do it are the high priced professionals or the unlucky dupes. Trish knew what the professionals wanted for the job, so she was trolling for dupes.

the great master orator--who knows everyones personality--and purpose in life-who sits on his great judgement throne---