:agree2:
45 years on a tautline and it hasn't failed me yet.
Rollout hahaha only happens when the knot is undressed.
friction hitches,how safe are they!!?
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:agree2:
45 years on a tautline and it hasn't failed me yet.
Rollout hahaha only happens when the knot is undressed.
moss
ArboristSite Guru
I think your body will break before the hitch cord does. I guess it depends what you mean by "falling a good ways", none of the stuff we climb on is intended to catch a big fall.
-moss
Sunrise Guy
Addicted to ArboristSite
The whole mechanical ascender/descender issue is a joke, to my way of thinking. It is a way for companies to keep coming up with new toys, ever so often, so they can rip you off. Give me my climbing line, a split-tail with a Blake's and my saddle, and I'll get around in a tree just as easily, and safely, as those with all of the fancy, new gizmos.
OK, I just thought of something: I do use a CMI foot ascender when I need to get up on my rope while it's hanging in the middle of nowhere. Other than that, I'm hip thrusting up using my Blake's.
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imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
Both mechanical and traditional rope only systems have their advantages. I come from a background of rope access over the last 15 years - rock climbing, caving, mountains rescue work and industrial access. If you are talking purely about ascension on a rope then you might as well forget using a prussik or variations of same - mechanical devices are the only way to be efficient and fast. I started on very basic equipment - harnesses tied together from webbing, prussiks, everything rope, no biners or devices.
There are many levels of roped access though. When climbing, systems are dynamic for shock absorption. For tree work, I figure its much the same as caving, only easier. Ive gone up as much as a vertical kilometer to get out of some caves, most of it freehanging on ropes with no chance of using feet and hands on slippery wet limestone. I'd challenge anybody to get up even a few rope lengths using only prussiks - its exhausting!
All systems have their place. Most guys in trees are really using the rope mainly for assistance. A lot of guys use spurs. We stand on branches a lot of the time, or climb them. I always climb using the branches in preference to using the rope, it's so much faster. Then the rope is there to catch me if a branch snaps or whatever. Again, when we move down the tree, our weight is only on the rope some of the time.
Whether rock climbing, in a tree, doing industrial access or any kind of rope work, I like to have options. With a couple of pulleys (hopefully one self locking) a couple of ascenders, a handfull of biners and maybe a belay device i can rig anything from a hall system to a quick ascension system, lower off, self belay or do a full rescue. I always carry prussik cords as a backup, and know many ways of adapting systems like using a few biners to make a belay brake etc.
Its not really worth rubbishing one in favor of the other - all systems have their benefits. While its true that most high quality (and high price!) purpose designed tools are going to do their job incredibly well, it's also true that they are likely to not do any other job. With only a piece of rope, I can do a lot. But with a small arsenal of specialised tools plus a piece of rope, there are so many options, and all of them are good.
Shaun
There are many levels of roped access though. When climbing, systems are dynamic for shock absorption. For tree work, I figure its much the same as caving, only easier. Ive gone up as much as a vertical kilometer to get out of some caves, most of it freehanging on ropes with no chance of using feet and hands on slippery wet limestone. I'd challenge anybody to get up even a few rope lengths using only prussiks - its exhausting!
All systems have their place. Most guys in trees are really using the rope mainly for assistance. A lot of guys use spurs. We stand on branches a lot of the time, or climb them. I always climb using the branches in preference to using the rope, it's so much faster. Then the rope is there to catch me if a branch snaps or whatever. Again, when we move down the tree, our weight is only on the rope some of the time.
Whether rock climbing, in a tree, doing industrial access or any kind of rope work, I like to have options. With a couple of pulleys (hopefully one self locking) a couple of ascenders, a handfull of biners and maybe a belay device i can rig anything from a hall system to a quick ascension system, lower off, self belay or do a full rescue. I always carry prussik cords as a backup, and know many ways of adapting systems like using a few biners to make a belay brake etc.
Its not really worth rubbishing one in favor of the other - all systems have their benefits. While its true that most high quality (and high price!) purpose designed tools are going to do their job incredibly well, it's also true that they are likely to not do any other job. With only a piece of rope, I can do a lot. But with a small arsenal of specialised tools plus a piece of rope, there are so many options, and all of them are good.
Shaun
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
Mechanical ascenders have their place. I love mine. For getting into a tree without spiking they are great. But once I get up there I am working off of a friction hitch. I know of some who are working off of a mechanical system on a SRT line. More power to them.
D Mc
ArboristSite Operative
Nice post, Shaun. :agree2:
Have you tried the Unicender? It is one specialised tool that can do many things very well.
Dave
As a lowlife dirt-sucking groundman of long standing who has had to tolerate and pick up after you bourgeois elitists through a thousand and one trees, may I say that you climbers talking about your trade is like listening to ten-year old girls debating the merits of the new Hannah Montana footwear line.
Now if you will excuse me, I will return to working harder than you for less money than you while having things dropped (thrown) on me from fifty-feet up.
Be nice to your ground-pounders, you altitudinal snobs.
Don't worry, we'll still carry your gear for you if it's too heavy.
Now if you will excuse me, I will return to working harder than you for less money than you while having things dropped (thrown) on me from fifty-feet up.
Be nice to your ground-pounders, you altitudinal snobs.
Don't worry, we'll still carry your gear for you if it's too heavy.
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dont worry too much.... From the ground, there isn't far to fall, all you can do is get down on your knees and grovel
Shaun
Blakesmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dont worry too much.... From the ground, there isn't far to fall, all you can do is get down on your knees and grovel
Shaun
And make sure you put the damned oil cap on correctly! lol
I get crap from my climber every day because he says I screw the caps of his XP338 on too tightly. But I've seen climbers draining oil in thirty-foot long spills when the cap comes off in the tree and I have no intention of taking the blame for that. The cap goes on tight or do it yourself.
Anyway, sorry to drag all this OT. Just venting for fun.
Back to the knots!
Blakesmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Blakesmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
I assume you're referencing prussiks that rock climbers and mountaineers use here, not the knots us tree climbers use and if that's the case, I'd agree.
Though usually we're on a double rope system where there is no substitute for friction hitches, yes there are some mechanical devices that can complete the task and do it well but for the cost?...no better than a well tied VT and micro pulley. If we're talking SRT, than yes, mechanical is the only way to go.
CB1
Tree Technichian Specialist
July 2010????? where are all the commercial tree guys??????
sac-climber
ArboristSite Operative
Are you able to pull a chipper with a horse and buggy or do you just bring some goats along
Yes I know this thread is 4 years old, blame CB1, he dug it up first!
Not to be a smartass but tie some 10mm bee line in a distel on 16 strand and then tell me 10mm doesn't bite
Or a 4 over 2 under VT
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
Stop being a smartass
Sometimes I can't help it
I try to be cautious I've noticed a lot of guys on this forum get butt hurt real easy
After pruning, brush is typically cut up with a chainsaw and returned to the tree.Are you able to pull a chipper with a horse and buggy or do you just bring some goats along
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