Friction Savers

[DDM]

I have a 48" Friction Saver with Steel rings And Ive noticed that i require a 72"
Saver.Whats the better of the 2 Steel Rings or Aluminum?

 

[Rob Murphy]

Neither, ditch the large steel ring and replace with a steel biner(double locking) on the short one and make an Adjustable False crotch as described by Tom....


Conf: Tree Climber
From: Tom Dunlap
Date: Monday, March 11, 2002 08:04 PM

This is the way I have my AFC configured:

Twelve foot piece of 16 strand climbing line with a Kong captured eye double locking biner spliced into the end. I whipped the other end into a really tight bight. This assures that the adjuster will never slide off the end of the rope.

The adjuster is made from some 3/8" dia double braid tied in a Distal Hitch as the adjuster.

A screw link [MR], with a CMI pulley, is tied onto the ends of the adjuster with double fishermans hitches.

The whole setup looks like a single ended flipline.

Any questions about its uses?

Tom

...............
I personally dont whip the adjuster end as I have started using it as a removable redirect by rerigging it....
Rob Murphy

 

[rahtreelimbs]

friction saver

Why make it adjustable?

 

[rbtree]

for different size crotches

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

If you need to climb up near the FS they get in the of your hitch.

 

[X-man]

Aluminum dissapates heat better than steel, however steel will last longer and is stronger. Try and get the ones with the thicker rings to increase the bend ratio where the rope runs. When the aluminum rings wear out, replace them with rated,locking 'biners and add a Petzl P05 Pulley. The Petzl pulley will allow an eye spliced climb line through it via throwline from the ground! This is the nicest option for a False Crotch.


Hope this Helps!

X-man

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

How bout this, clevis on one side with a pully on the other.

 

[Rob Murphy]

Here's my home made one...Its a bit rough but does the job..

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

John,
A clevis wuold be a bad choice, IMO. First, it does not double auto lock, it spin locks. Second, it spin locks.
Rope running on the pin could make it turn. Then you could fall to to your death, and most people don't like falling to their death.

Rob,
The electrical tape is a nice touch. By stiffening the end of the rope, it helps to "lift" the carabiner as you remove the the friction saver from the tree, making it a little easier to remove. I might even extend the tape a little bit around the biner to prevent that from sliding(turning) in the knot, making it lift out even better.

 

[Nickrosis]

Like many people have said, if you're concerned about heat dissipation in your friction saver, you're doing something wrong with it. Heat passed to the rings will be passed back to the rope and released to the air in no time.

From a chemistry/physics standpoint (my favorite kind), the rings don't create much friction (that's the point). There should not be much heat in the rope as it enters the rings. Any heat between the rope and rings will be exchanged evenly - the specific heat is the same on both sides of the equation:
Mass*Specific Heat*Change in (Delta) Temperature= - (negative) Mass*Specific Heat*Change in (Delta) Temperature

This means the heat in the rings will be absorbed just as fast as it is lost. Picture this: a faucet that has had hot water running through it for a while will not heat up more and more over time. It will reach the temperature of the water, approximately, and stay there. It won't gain more and more heat and end up boiling the water!

People peddling aluminum rings are using poor science and should have other reasons for you to buy their product.

Nickrosis

 

[Rob Murphy]

Rob,
The electrical tape is a nice touch. By stiffening the end of the rope, it helps to "lift" the carabiner as you remove the the friction saver from the tree, making it a little easier to remove. I might even extend the tape a little bit around the biner to prevent that from sliding(turning) in the knot, making it lift out even better. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeh it helps it to flip out. Scott the real rope freak on the crew has one made with a larger rope sheath and heat shrink on his AFC to stiffen it.But he splices everything and puts velcro everywhere.....
A real trick is to make sure the line form where your anchor point is to where you 'deck out' is as direct as possible!
Otherwise.....yank....yank....argh.....
Here it is rerigged to removal redirect

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Using a clevis in an AFC would work as long as the screw pin is wrench tightened or wired to prevent unscrewing. Nylon wire ties work too. There are reuseable wire ties too but they're hard to find.

Tom

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Yo-Murph!
How about an explanation on pic. 2 please?

 

[Rob Murphy]

KC
It rerigged as a removeable redirect.
I like tools to be versitile and have more than one use.I have a small False Crotch ( Buckingham 3' with the large ring replaced by Biner) that gets the most use.
(1)
When I need a simple redirect i take the AFC push the pulley aside, put the Quicklink into the Biner and I have an Adjustable redirect.
(2)
By undoing the stop knot(the rope end has been trimmmed down to a point and taped), moving the pulley to above the friction hitch and tying the tail off my rope into the pulley I have a removeable redirect.
Must be sure to have enough rope lenght to break down from the ground!!
Mostly it gets used as AFC or (1) I havent used it as (2) in the field yet......I am looking for comments

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Rob,

If I interpret your setup correctly, the rope that's tied to the pulley is the end of your climbing line. That would mean that you can only climb about 1/3 of the length of your rope. The bigger concern would be to not climb so low that you pull the AFC out of the tree by down climbing too far.

What do you think of these mods:

Put the pulley onto your big biner so that you have a smoother decent.
Put the adjuster knot on the big biner.
Use the screw link above the adjuster knot as the "slack tender" to retrieve the AFC
Tie on some accesory cord or throwline to pull the AFC out once you get to the ground.
The retrieval line could be sent to the ground through an area of the tree where you won't have to worry about a stray pull tugging the AFC out.
A slip knot could be tied on the end of the AFC to act as a stopper knot. You would have to be careful to tie it "right side up". The gight would be up and the loop would be down. Tie on another throwline to the end of the stopper and tug it out once you get to the ground.

Tom

 

[Rob Murphy]

Thanks Tom.
You said..
"Put the pulley onto your big biner so that you have a smoother decent".
It's only a single pulley and you need a double for a redirect thats why I use the biner.
Yeh the throwline idea's not bad for the reasons mentioned.
Whats this that JPS said about a box for throwline that folds down into a triangle?????any pics...or drawings???

 

[Rob Murphy]

Thanx very much Tom.
I have a friend who has a money pouch that opens out in to a flat circle. i wonder if this could be used for this app.