Going to an ECHO Seminar tomorrow.

[RED-85-Z51]

Cant wait!

Today was the Toro Seminar/education program. We got to disassemble and rebuild the new Hydro-Gear T-series Tandem Hydrostatic pumps, and look at an innivative way to do some Electrical troubleshooting on those complicated Zero Turn systems.

But tomorrow...ECHO :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy:

I talked to the Echo rep today, and asked him a few questions...

1. How much would a fella have to pay to get a CS-1201...?

answer- Wont happen in USA, EVER.

2. Husky XP, Stihl Ultra, Echo Power BlendX...which is better?

Answer-
The Stihl is a full synthetic, which was created after a terribly oversight by Stihl when they pushed the 4-mix into production. The motors were tearing up on the Stihl Blends..He said in a 2 stroke application, the Synthetic is nothing more than a merketing ploy, and a Waste of money.

He said the Stihl HP is good, very adequate. Stihl Super is also good, Rated JASO FD.

The said the Super HP, Husky XP oil, And Echo PBX are all on the same level, Rated JASO FD but that Stihl ultra was JASO FB, which is 2 steps DOWN.

He did say that Echo is in the process of transitioning all products to the Orange cladding, with new model numbers. The CS-440 will be discontinued, and the new CS-450 will take it's place with 45cc's, Orange body, metal case.

I got to put my hands on a New Echo SRM-265...what a monster, but it's so light! Also, It's orange!

They also said that Echo has fixed the problematic Gear boxes on the Power Pruners with a new design that is going to set an industry Standard!

Ill have more tomorrow...today was just a short conversation...tomorrow the event is 8 hours!

 

[epicklein22]

Sweet, I am always interested in the new technologies and products coming out. I really like echo trimmers, way better than the fs55 by stihl. Also, for the people in the ohio and the surrounding states, Power Show Ohio is coming up, http://www.omeda.org/powershow/ . Should be a good time. Stihl wouldn't be there but I think every other player in the saw market will be present.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

I learned a TON about toro Today..

The Mowers sold at Home Depot, The LT-200 lineup, and the XL lineup, are MTD mowers. They are 100% MTD, but with a Toro hood and fender Decal. Those are the exact words from a Toro Rep.

Kohler is coming out with a Push Mower engine. Made in China, no repair parts will be made except an air filter. They want to make it dirt cheap for the Premium mower group, and compete with Kawasaki and Honda. They feel that it is of a high enough Quality that it will pay for itself a few times by the time you need repair parts.

Tecumseh sold it's Engine program to a Foreign holding company to focus it's attention on making refrigeration compressors. Peerless went with the engine program. Tecumseh is NO LONGER PRODUCING ANY ENGINES OR TRANSMISSIONS.

Toro push mowers are now coming exclusively with Briggs and Stratton engines...BUT NO MORE PRIMERS. Briggs engines are now coming with Easy Start Air vane CHOKE. It's cool, you just pull back the Zone Start bale, and pull the rope and it cranks first pull every time.

 

[Stihl 041S]

Didn't MTD eat up Toro a few years
ago?

 

[Brian S]

I learned a TON about toro Today..

The Mowers sold at Home Depot, The LT-200 lineup, and the XL lineup, are MTD mowers. They are 100% MTD, but with a Toro hood and fender Decal. Those are the exact words from a Toro Rep.

Kohler is coming out with a Push Mower engine. Made in China, no repair parts will be made except an air filter. They want to make it dirt cheap for the Premium mower group, and compete with Kawasaki and Honda. They feel that it is of a high enough Quality that it will pay for itself a few times by the time you need repair parts.

Tecumseh sold it's Engine program to a Foreign holding company to focus it's attention on making refrigeration compressors. Peerless went with the engine program. Tecumseh is NO LONGER PRODUCING ANY ENGINES OR TRANSMISSIONS.

Toro push mowers are now coming exclusively with Briggs and Stratton engines...BUT NO MORE PRIMERS. Briggs engines are now coming with Easy Start Air vane CHOKE. It's cool, you just pull back the Zone Start bale, and pull the rope and it cranks first pull every time.

What a shame, I have a small kohler command pro 6hp horiz shaft engine on my pressure washer and it is great quality (yamaha makes these) too bad they went chinese!

I bought a toro push mower last year with the intek pro, the only negative to that engine is the primer. Glad to see they are addressing that.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Didn't MTD eat up Toro a few years
ago?

No.

Toro realized that they were falling way behind in the homoeowner market. Producing all equipment in-house, the costs were going up and up, but it was a good product. But people would rather get a 2 year mower at half the cost.

So Toro made an offer to MTD. Make the Home-owner mowers, Badge them as Toro....

Toro, as some may know. Purchased the WHEEL HORSE line from AMC in the late 80's. The line was noted for rugged good looks, and just being tough as nails since the late 50's. When Toro took over, they dropped about half the lineup, and started badging the shoddy low end Toro mowers as Wheel Horse. and went to Briggs power on them. These are known as the XL lineup, produced from the Late 80's, til Recently. XL14/38 was a popular one...

The last WH model that remained was the WH 315-8, which retained the rugged steel body, angle iron frame, Cast Iron 8 speed uni-drive trans, 15hp Kolher, etc...

However, Toro realized they were falling behind in the market they once held a big share in..The Zero Turn market. Faced with the option of building a new ZTR assembly plant, 5 years contrustion, or converting the WH plant in Minnesota to a ZTR plant, a year at the most...The choice was easy...BY BY WHEEL HORSE. The only brand that could hang with Deere in the 60's and 70's.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

What a shame, I have a small kohler command pro 6hp horiz shaft engine on my pressure washer and it is great quality (yamaha makes these) too bad they went chinese!

I bought a toro push mower last year with the intek pro, the only negative to that engine is the primer. Glad to see they are addressing that.

Ive got a Kohler CH6T/XKE on my Gokart, a Kohler Factory Racing engine...sweet mofo of an engine! The CS6T, which is (like you said) A Yamaha engine, is just as awesome.

just becaause the new motor is Chinese made, doesnt mean it will be crappy...

Also, Kohler admits that the Kohler Courage engines are trash...but after Failing with the Triad, Aegies engines....they are stuck.

 

[XJWoody]

When you and the three others attending all yell together

will y'all hear an ECHO?ECHO?echo?
















Sorry Red! I kinda envy you. I have attended several short-duration 'tech schools' that were pretty spiffy (probably on par with the "VA Beach trip" mentioned elsewhere) learning new stuff or reinforcing/augmenting old stuff is always good.

 

[04ultra]

If I guy went to a Husky dealer Seminar/education program they would tell you Echo oil suck's and so does Stihl oil and Husky was the best.....


If you go to a Stihl dealer Seminar/education program they would tell you Echo and Husky oil suck and Stihl was the best.........


Ever get the idea there only telling you what they want you to hear....


I doubt that Echo's going to tell you there products suck and so does there oil.........(not saying it does ..just using it as an example).....There going to tell you there the best .....




....

 

[2000ssm6]

shakes his head sideways

Ill have more tomorrow...today was just a short conversation...tomorrow the event is 8 hours!

Maybe in those 8 hours they will tell how the new Echos will be 50% less powerful of it's rivial Stihl/Dolmar/husky product. Maybe they will up the power?:hmm3grin2orange: :monkey:

 

[Lakeside53]

Yes.. and be careful about a salesman talking about FB, FC, FD, ISO xxxx blah blah ...ask him exactly what the letters mean they mean and what is covered in each spec, and what is incrementally different. Then watch as they make it all up.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

If I guy went to a Husky dealer Seminar/education program they would tell you Echo oil suck's and so does Stihl oil and Husky was the best.....


If you go to a Stihl dealer Seminar/education program they would tell you Echo and Husky oil suck and Stihl was the best.........


Ever get the idea there only telling you what they want you to hear....


I doubt that Echo's going to tell you there products suck and so does there oil.........(not saying it does ..just using it as an example).....There going to tell you there the best .....




....

But the Echo Rep didnt say that ECHO oil was the ultimate. just that the good blends, Echo PBX, Husky XP, and Stihl HP were great oils...but that Stihl ultra was 2 steps backwards. If you want to contest that fact with Stihl mumbo Jumbo, go ahead. Probably a reason Stihl talks about ISO and JASO certifications on all oils BUT the ultra...on their site.

He said the ultra is what keeps the 4 mix Hybrid alive. But that it was pointless to use on a 2 stroke, even had a lower rating than the "2nd tier Stihl oil" and Husky XP, and Echo PBX.

 

[04ultra]

But the Echo Rep didnt say that ECHO oil was the ultimate. just that the good blends, Echo PBX, Husky XP, and Stihl HP were great oils...but that Stihl ultra was 2 steps backwards. If you want to contest that fact with Stihl mumbo Jumbo, go ahead. Probably a reason Stihl talks about ISO and JASO certifications on all oils BUT the ultra...on their site.

He said the ultra is what keeps the 4 mix Hybrid alive. But that it was pointless to use on a 2 stroke, even had a lower rating than the "2nd tier Stihl oil" and Husky XP, and Echo PBX.

So this is an Echo rep telling you this???? :help: :help:



.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Yes.. and be careful about a salesman talking about FB, FC, FD blah blah ...ask him exactly what the letters mean they mean and what is covered in each spec, and what is incrementally different. Then watch as they make it all up.

He wasnt a Salesman, he had nothing to gain by lieing in a room full of Dealers and specialist, only alot to lose.

We had Husky, and Stihl Dealers there today also, for the TORO course, and not a single one was willing to knock what he was telling me.

I already know about the different JASO levels, so it's not like I went in ignorant.

This is the best, most Layman explanation Ive found..

=============================

NMMA TC-W3 – two cycle water-cooled, third generation. TC-W3 obsoletes TC-W & TC-WII. Oils with this spec typically do not use metal based additives, and are ashless. This is an outboard specific spec.

API TC – only API spec established for two cycle engines. It regulates lubricity, detergency, ash content & pre-ignition. Oils with this spec are typically using metal based, ash producing additives.

JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke, and exhaust system blocking. Now obsolete.

JASO FB – increased lubricity requirements over FA.

JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.

JASO FD - same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.

ISO-L-EGB – same tests and requirements as JASO FB.

ISO-L-EGC – same tests and slightly higher detergency requirements (piston varnish) as JASO FC.

ISO-L-EGD – same tests and requirements as JASO FD

 

[Lakeside53]

But the Echo Rep didnt say that ECHO oil was the ultimate. just that the good blends, Echo PBX, Husky XP, and Stihl HP were great oils...but that Stihl ultra was 2 steps backwards. If you want to contest that fact with Stihl mumbo Jumbo, go ahead. Probably a reason Stihl talks about ISO and JASO certifications on all oils BUT the ultra...on their site.

He said the ultra is what keeps the 4 mix Hybrid alive. But that it was pointless to use on a 2 stroke, even had a lower rating than the "2nd tier Stihl oil" and Husky XP, and Echo PBX.

Your sales guy is showing his lack of knowledge.. he's back in his ABC... C is better than B which is better than A which is...

Sure... Ultra sucks in 2 strokes.. sure... as for keeping 4-mix "alive" .. lololol - the HP Super works great in 4-mixes... pretty much all we sell for 90% of them. He OLD "Low Smoke" oil which HP Super replaced was a big problem... maybe he's confused with that?

Stihl is in the process of certifying Ultra in a NEW classification which considers parameters not even addressed in the current Jasco and ISO specs. The spec is still being developed. Don't get all wound up what printed on the bottle or on a site.. that's the "MINIMUM" spec it's been tested to. You'll find it will join the ISO-L-EGD spec soon enough.



Groan... I got suckered into another oil thread...

 

[Brian S]

I don't feel like we ought to buy anything from a country that sends poison dog food and childrens toys to us.

I know the Chinese can make a fantastic product, but I want to spend my dollars buying something made in a free county with pride by people who care.

Here we go again.
:deadhorse:

 

[2000ssm6]

Your sales guy is showing his lack of knowledge.. he's back in his ABC... C is better than B which is better than A which is...

Sure... Ultra sucks in 2 strokes.. sure... as for keeping 4-mix "alive" .. lololol - the HP Super works great in 4-mixes...

Stihl is in the process of certifying Ultra in a NEW classification which considers parameters not even addressed in the current Jasco and ISO specs. The spec is still being developed. Don't get all wound up what printed on the bottle or on a site.. that's the "MINIMUM" spec it's been tested to. You'll find it will join the ISO-L-EGD spec soon enough.

Awe, only 15 posts and you shut red down? :hmm3grin2orange:

I've been using HP ultra for awhile, less smoke, cleans great, and lubes very well!

 

[OLY-JIM]

What's all this stuff about oil wear out dates and bottle oxygenation that occurs with JASO-FB?

 

[Lakeside53]

What's all this stuff about oil wear out dates and bottle oxygenation that occurs with JASO-FB?

That's in the other OIL thread!

 

[OLY-JIM]

Ohh...ok...you know these threads are hard to tell apart. Don't let me interupt this new oil debate.