greenworks chainsaws: "pro" 80v vs "commercial" 82v

[J D]

(in my defense, greenworks has *way* too many "models", all short on specific differences : )

Often this is so they can supply different chain stores (costco / lowes / home depot etc) with their own specific model. This means the chain stores don't have to worry about competitive pricing so much as the product they sell is a "different" model which is unique to their chain

 

[OM617YOTA]

I may have mis-linked above (in my defense, greenworks has *way* too many "models", all short on specific differences : ) - the model I ended up with was the 18inch "45cc equivalent" greenworks mfg #2020502 from costco. Something came up and I didn't get to fell/mill the stand I had my eye on, so I didn't put the saw to use until late in the year. wow HORRIBLE. Honestly i can't imagine that my unit is not defective, it (overheats?) and requires a break after less than one full pass. Granted I am pushing it a bit on diameter versus the 18" bar & this cheap saw's power, but this can't be right. As above, I am pretty impressed with my first greenworks saw, it works well enough that I can't remember the last time I used my sthil to fell anything (just to mill which is obviously not going to happen on any size battery saw at today's energy densities).

So, I made the correct decision to buy from Costco ... saw returned. I'm trying to figure out what to buy now. I would prefer another greenworks IFF It's going to be reliable, simply because I have all the batteries drastically reducing the total cost. 8ah batteries in any brand are expensive.. Dewalt now has a 20", 3kw saw.

Multiple brands now have 20", ~3kw electric saw's. Dewalt 20v is the line of all my non-lawn tools; I have a few 6ah 60v, but no where near as many as my (also larger) 8ah 80v greenworks - and a chainsaw chews batteries - so I'm reluctant to get the DCCS677 which I believe is a great saw.

Greenworks site shows now such 20" saws - but miraculously costco is selling one! Unfortunately it's only in a kit with 2 small batteries, making it a poor value for me vs just a bare tool

What do you mean by a "pass"? My Kobalt 80v will cut with the bar fully buried in hardwood until the battery is exhausted, for as many batteries as I have, without any issues. BTDT. Have reasonable expectations, let the saw eat as it wants.

If you mean milling, which you mention but don't specifically say that wasn't what you were doing, then obviously these are the wrong saws for that. They should handle it, provided you let the saw work as it's supposed to and not push it beyond it's limits, but it's going to be a slow process, burn through a lot of batteries, and is definitely beyond what the saw is meant for.

Caveat: Ambient temp might make the difference. I don't function in hot weather, and thus have no clue how the saws do.

 

[J D]

Interesting, thanks. Thats more saw than i need, but its great that i wont be trying to buy the largest one any longer. Note that it mentions a 4.3k motor and "pouch" cells - which presumably means lipo (vs cylindrical) as lipo is generally better at soucing high current.

The current rating of the battery cells comes down to the internal construction & specific chemistry rather than the package. The cylindrical 18650 lipo's commonly found in laptop batteries are designed for relatively low current discharge over an extended period, the same package battery that is commonly used in vaping devices would be designed for short duration high current discharge. The main advantage of the "pouch" cells is that they are comparibly lighter & can be made to any size

 

[little trees]

What do you mean by a "pass"? My Kobalt 80v will cut with the bar fully buried in hardwood until the battery is exhausted, for as many batteries as I have, without any issues. BTDT. Have reasonable expectations, let the saw eat as it wants.

If you mean milling, which you mention but don't specifically say that wasn't what you were doing, then obviously these are the wrong saws for that. They should handle it, provided you let the saw work as it's supposed to and not push it beyond it's limits, but it's going to be a slow process, burn through a lot of batteries, and is definitely beyond what the saw is meant for.

Caveat: Ambient temp might make the difference. I don't function in hot weather, and thus have no clue how the saws do.

No, definitely not milling. by "pass" I just meant a full cut through the tree, albeit one pushing the usable bar length to the max. Note I know my batteries are fine - the same batteries in my other saw did the ~same cut just fine when i swapped back to it. Obviously both the saw and/or the batteries *could* overheat; in my case I really struggle to believe the 2nd saw (subject of this thread) is not just somehow defective.

 

[little trees]

The current rating of the battery cells comes down to the internal construction & specific chemistry rather than the package. The cylindrical 18650 lipo's commonly found in laptop batteries are designed for relatively low current discharge over an extended period, the same package battery that is commonly used in vaping devices would be designed for short duration high current discharge. The main advantage of the "pouch" cells is that they are comparibly lighter & can be made to any size

Unfortunately this reply demonstrates just how difficult is to understand, let alone have a convo about batteries these days. "18650"'s and other cylindrical cells are not li-po. They are colloquially called li-ion, and use a salt/liquid electrolyte. Li-Po batteries, like most pouches, use a non-liquid polymer. Of course these all use variants of "lithium ion" battery chemistry, so, yeah...

I do agree with your sentiment that the actual intended current (note for thread this is expressed in "C" rating) capacity (*designed* max capacity; the circuit determines the actual amps) and other properties are more a specific of the cell design than any platitude about cell or electrolyte type, chemistry, etc. Also note that today even talking chemistries (LFP, LiFePO4, NMC, IMR, etc etc) is incredibly battery-specific; at one point in time, a while ago before all the R&D of the last 20 years, those "chemistries" really did mean something pretty specific.

 

[little trees]

Can you explain and expand on the differences between thise?

Thanks!

Philbert

This is a can of worms. A typical pouch cell these days seems to be designed to source more current than a typical cylindrical. For example, see the Dewalt pouch-based PowerStack batteries. In small total volumes or weights, pouch cells also seem to have a practical benefit of more flexible design - see that all small drones use LiPo pouch cells; it's certainly possible to use cylindrical and sometimes they have greater volume- and mass- energy density, but they total weight to fit a _standard_ battery (eg an 18650 or now 21700) in the required cell count (for the motor voltage rails) is just too large - enter pouch cells.

I might recommend something like https://budgetlightforum.com to ask technical questions about battery chemistries and form factors.

 

[Philbert]

So, ‘pouch’ batteries are not necessarily in a cylindrical shape?

This is aside from the different potential (no pun intended) chemistries?

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[little trees]

So, ‘pouch’ batteries are not necessarily in a cylindrical shape?

By definition, they are *not* cylindrical. Cylindrical is a stack of <battery layers>, a couple inches wide x a couple feet long, rolled, and packaged in a metal casing.

please start another thread for any further battery-internals questions, this is really off-topic for this thread which is about greenworks 80v saws.

 

[Ob1]

Let me suggest the Husqvarna 350i “Battle Axe”, currently sold only at Lowe’s. I run a crew of volunteer sawyers and we have used the top models of Husqvarna and Stihl pro saws. They were good but expensive. The 350i is only $450 for the whole set up. We now run three and are very happy with them.

I have huskys 536Li , running conservatively with a 12-in bar and the 200 BLI batteries - it's fantastic for a climb saw. I'm hoping to get something stronger for groundwork, So I'm really curious if the 350i is just on par with my saw or significantly stronger?
Also, any experience running the 350i Power Axe with just the 200 BLI battery?
If those smaller 200 batteries aren't really a usable backup for the bigger saw, maybe I should just get Greenworks 20 inch or similar