Have problem, need feedback

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Today me and my partner went to work, (we are money partners, he has a dump, I have a chipper, we have our own saws and climbing gear), towards the end of the day we had one last tree to take down, he climbed it, set a rope in it, came down, made his notch, back cut, then ran around to help me pull it over. The tree came down, (left of where I thought it would land) when I went over to check out his hinge (the tree was very hard to pull for such a small sucker), I noticed that his new 460 looked busted up, and it was, the tree landed on it. I felt sick when I saw it because it was a brand new, that said, the only time I touched it was to gas it when he was in a tree (he was the last to touch it). I felt problems coming when he asked me "didn't you see the saw when you where pulling the tree?" I said "no, did you, I was looking at the top",(I was 40' from the saw, he was 15' at best) then he comes back later and says "what are WE going to do about this", (ie, am I going to share the cost of fixing or replacing the saw) I tell him that I am not going to do anything, and that I'm sorry he landed a tree on his saw. He then tells me that I should share in the cost because the saw makes both of us money, I tell him that I don't agree, he leaves (letting me have the pleasure of cleaning up all the sodden duff in a driving rain), says he's done with me, and that all I care about is money. Any thoughts?

Thanks
John
I think since you are partners and this is first time some thing has happend.You should share the cost.From now on before any one drops tree double check to see if equipment is around.If you dont share the cost i think you will both end in bad way.Maybe now is the time to get things cleared in the air.Chalk it up to first time bad experience and make sure double check things.
 
i think ya need to argue with your hands and forget about partners. what if one of ya breaks something with value? who will pay than. whatever ya do you better get some insurance. dont mix friends with buisnes or you will lose one or the other or maby even both. just pay him to work for you or viseversa. i like to work for someone else and give my side work to my boss for a % that way i bare no cost and just make money. forget about what i said in the first line, its just a bad idea. be smart be safe get some insurance and do the climbing and technical work your self so you avoid using a wreckless other.
 
Partners

We are no longer partners, and our friendship was hugely strained by being in business together. If you are going to have a partner in the tree business, you have to have very similar values and philosophies. The person in question has gone on to to make good money in trees but in my opinion is too careless with others safety, property, etc, one those people who could crush a fence and blame it on the home owner, he'd rather fix a roof than lower a branch. It almost came to blows several times. All that said I still love the guy, and will say he taught me most of what I know about sales.

Did you guys formalize your partnership or just get together for jobs? Years ago when I lived with a bunch of good friends the only time it seemed to work was when we sat down and wrote out rules and cleaning schedules then posted them.

I was thinking with me I might just take each mutual job on a case by case bases. Whats mine is mine whats his is his. We have similar personalities. After reading the responses here I suspect having mutually owned stuff and interest would lead to many challenges. Perhaps If it was a mutually owned company that another third party ran it could work. My biggest concern is, I put endless amounts of time into my business and I doubt anyone with any kind of life could match my hours.

I have also heard that you should only partner with people who offer skills and abilities you do not have. The biggest benefit to having a partner in our biz is safety; I often work alone [without another skilled climber]. It is an insurance policy in effect to have a guy that can quickly make a rescue. Skilled climbers are rare and expensive. I have paid him on average 40 to 50 an hour to show up and climb. That kinda money cuts hard into profitability in my market on most jobs, particularly this time of year.

It seems like to get big enough to pay us both well we would have to start competing with Davey and Bartlett for steady contracts; any one have experience expanding into that ground.

Well better go I have a double date with a pair of firs...
 
Been There...Done That

We are no longer partners, and our friendship was hugely strained by being in business together.

WRONG! Your friendship was strained by your lack of business skills. Your business failed because of your lack of planning.


If you are going to have a partner in the tree business, you have to have very similar values and philosophies. The person in question has gone on to to make good money in trees but in my opinion is too careless with others safety, property, etc, one those people who could crush a fence and blame it on the home owner, he'd rather fix a roof than lower a branch.

Nope! Partners need to bring different values to the business. If I can drive a truck, I don't need another truck driver, I need someone to load it or to schedule it etc.


It almost came to blows several times. All that said I still love the guy, and will say he taught me most of what I know about sales.

Here is a key value! He taught YOU about sales, seems like maybe you needed to teach him about safety.

The Number One Problem with Partners is that they don't take business seriously. I didn't, You didn't and just about everyone here that had a partnership didn't.

If you want a successful Partnership
1) You both or all (partners can be more than two people) sit down and write out what Values you bring to the business.
2) Then you divide up the tasks:
If I am good at sales, then I am in charge of sales. If you are a good leader, then you are in charge of the crews. If he is good with numbers, then he is in charge of bookkeeping.
3)Next you outline responsibilities for each position, not the person. People change. There are promotions, life changes etc that require us to keep evolving. Maybe I was a great bookkeeper, but I can't stand being in an office so I want a new position. So tasks go with a position only.
4) You outline your goals and make a business plan. Making money is not a goal, it is a result of executing the business plan.
5) You hire an attorney and draw up a partnership agreement and create a business venture.
6) Stick to the plan and keep it evolving just like a person.

Think of it as starting a family. You need two people to execute that.
1) You find someone and agree to spend the rest of your life with them :dizzy: (talking to your friend in a bar and saying let do business together)
2) You enter into a marriage contract. (You enter into a business contract)
3) You have a baby (your business is born)
4) You spend the next 16-21 years raising the baby to be a man/woman (You spend the next 16-21 years cultivating a business and helping it grow)
5) The baby becomes an adult and makes its own living (Your business matures and is ready for expansion,sale or acquisition)
6) You retire and your kids take care of you:cheers: (Your business now can move along without your help and supports you.)

There are very few successful businesses that happened without partners. However, partners are the biggest reason businesses fail. Either because you didn't have one or because you picked the wrong one or you simple didn't plan.

I had a successful excavating company. I owned the backhoe, truck and trailer. My partner owned the excavator, skid steer and numerous plumbing tools. I held a Class A CD. He held a Master Plumbers License. Together we could do it all. I was great at bidding and sales, he was great at getting it done. We prospered in the good times, but we didn't plan for the bad times. As soon as there was a slow down and money got tight we were both trying to pull from the same piggy bank. We looked at the business as our income instead of our child. We closed it up and went our separate ways. Oh yeah, we were family of sorts. My g/f's sisters husband. So it not only had an effect on business, but family and relationships as well.

It took many years for us to become friends again, but we still can't work together yet. Worse part is that we are both struggling without each other.

So partnerships work, but you have to work at them.

You both planned on making money on the job, how did you plan on sharing the expenses? In this situation, you would have simple added the saw repair to the expenses and lost some or all of the profit. You would have both learned and moved on. But neither of you looked at the expenses as a shared cost of doing business. In my partnership, my partners expense was much greater than mine. If something was damaged or needed repair, it came out of the Business expenses. In essence, our business was leasing the equipment from us personally. This also allowed us to rent equipment if it was in the best interest of the business.
 
I think it easier for a smaller business like a tree service just to have one boss and owner. I have only done this thing for a little while, but I have spent several thousand last year on maintenance and broken equipment. It is always easier to write those checks knowing that you aren't taking any money away from your partner's paycheck. This way you can pay your partners(foreman and crew)the same hourly wage, and it only hurts the amount of money YOU make. And If you want to make up for it, you can just work more jobs, or bid a little higher
 
You guys will notice that the original post was close to two years ago now. And to clarify some questions asked, no we were not formal partners with a written contract, and when I talk about values I'm not talking about skills, I'm talking about the way you treat other people (clients, employees), what is your level of professionalism? We didn't care about the same things with equal energy. I'm also not saying I'm without fault in the way things ended up, but it's better that we don't work together anymore.
 
legality of partnerships

to the guys talking about potential partnerships (specifically "unofficial" partnerships):

partnerships can be tricky, especially because as far as the courts are concerned, they can be created inadvertently. in the business law class i had to take (focus on law in canada). here is the basic summary from the textbook:

"When evidence indicates that there has been one of the following, a partnership will be presumed:
-joint contribution of capital to establish a business
-intention to share expenses, profits, or losses
-joint participation in the management of a business
"

so even if there is no contract, and even if there was no intention to be partners, you can still be considered partners by the law. so if things go sour, your "partner", or clients, or whomever, can go after you for his actions and for whatever happens. it also says that a single joint venture would probably not be classed as a partnership, but if it happens repeatedly, they would be considered in the "business" of providing that good/service. and unfortunately partners can be held without limits to contracts, lawsuits etc. signed by their partners.

keep in mind this course was to learn the foundations of law relating to business, and the instructor always said "thats how it works, but in reality you should consult a lawyer."

another thing to consider is the insurance. it would definately be prudent to talk to your insurer about the potential sharing of assets and jobs. always better to work things out ahead of time. insurance is one of things that would NOT be easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

another little side note is that i was pretty surpised to learn is that sometimes courts will be willing to lift the "corporate veil" and hold the director, shareholders, president, etc. personally liable. the text names a few specific instances: fraud, employee's wages, taxes, and environmental concerns. it says in most instances the "separate legal entity" will be respected, but in some cases people can still go after the owner's personal assets.

i never woulda thunk that i'd use anything i learned in post secondary education, but whaddyaknow. another thing they stressed time and time again, was to be incredibly careful with setting up partnerships. some instructors said to avoid them like the plague. so be careful. lots of them describe it like marriage...people change and things don't always last. the nice thing about the college i attend is all the professors have lots of real world experience and 99% of them have businesses on the side and teach for the fun of it and a bit of extra income.
 
Last edited:
partnership=marriage

Same down here, and with a good (evil) lawer if the other partner was driving off to dump chips got in a crash killed someone, guess what, Lets just say no honeymoon. Partnership=two or more (sole proprieters) totaly responsible for eachother with all assets+liablity property of the partnership (marrital property). Thats what an LLC. or LLP. it for!
HOUDY PARD.:cheers:
Ive seen the future and it sucks, realy sucks.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top