help with large homemade splitter!

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I have seen a ton of railroad equipment that used a similar twin cyl setup for certain functions. Some had large rollers in the slide box, some just had large metal slide blocks inside the guides. I dont know of any kind of equalizers being used in any of those setups, and I know they also had a tendency to bind. Liberal grease and oil was the fix. Most of these setups where power to lift and gravity down. The farther apart the cyl are from each other the greater the effect will be. We also have some twin cyl setup that use multiple control valves with CAN (Controller Area Network) controllers to work the cyl equally together or independant of each other. Most problems with this type of setup seemed to be the cables that connected all the Can's so they could communicate with each other. Nitemare to troubleshoot but once the trouble was found, you either replaced the cable or the CAN unit. Not a hyd sytem you would want or see on a wood splitter.
 
I've rebuilt a couple lifts on farm tractors that were double cylinder lifts. They were just bleeding down, going past the seals so I pulled them apart and put in new seals and rings. They were just standard fair with nothing special. As I recall they just had a simple drilled block for distribution. I don't remember anything in there as I remember pulling lines and seeing clear through. It was a Duhnam Lehr brand. Our international hoes looked the same. I'm pretty sure they relied of the lift frame rigid structure to overcome any lift variance. If one cylinder was bleeding down the whole thing would come down or you would hold the valve open slightly to keep it up when they got real bad. I remember we discussed taking both in to test to see which was bad but when they considered the time down and cost, they just had me rebuild both and forget it so we'd be all new again. Problem solved.
 
Unless you have some sort of equalizer valve set up, one cyl. or the other is doing all the work, they will never both work with equal pressure. If no one believes this look at grapple fingers plumbed that way one or the other is always moving untill one is full open or bottomed out then the other kicks in, loader bucket the same way. You gain nothing on a double cyl. till one or the other bottoms out and the other takes all the pressure. Looks impressive but does nothing !!

No, that's not correct. The cylinders will have equal pressure.

If one cylinder has less resistance it will move first, but if the cylinders are tied together, like on a splitter push block, dump truck hoist, etc they will move in unison.
 
Valley, neither cyl will have pressure until resistance is felt. If one cyl hits resistance it will stop or slow until the pressure is equalized in the other cyl. On that you are correct. That is simply how it works. In order for the cyls to move at the same time, they have to be connected by some mechanical means. Otherwise one cyl would fully extend before the other cyl would move. On a dump truck with a cyl on each side of the frame, the cyl are tied together by the dump bed and the truck frame. I am sure if you have paid attention to a loaded truck lifting the bed, one side might come up before the other side, same for the fel on a tractor. One side gets heavier than the other because of uneven loading, the light side of the dump bed or loader bucket will rise first, but the other heavier side will follow, so both cyl extend. This is because the cyl are mechanically tied together thru the loader lift arms or dump frame. Pressure will build evenly in both cyl because the hyd cyl are tied together with the hoses, but one cyl might extend first because of the amount of force required to move the load. The greater the distance between the two cyl, the greater the uneven lift will be, if the distance between the cyl is really great, the hoist could actually seesaw lift as the one side loads and unloads. A dump truck with a single telescopic cyl works similar. The shaft is hollow with other shafts stuck inside of the main, larger cyl. Because each shaft has a smaller piston size then the shaft it is inserted in, the amount of force is reduced for the smaller shafts. Therefore under load, the bigger shaft will rise first, same pressure, but bigger pistion, until the shaft is fully extended, at which time the next smaller shaft will extend and at its full extention, the next shaft will start to extend. Same principle applies to lowering the lift, the smaller cyl will retract first, even under a gravity retraction because the smaller shaft takes less force to push back into the cyl barrel.
 
Yes muddstopper you are correct in your analysis of the set up. In my 40 plus years of experience modify, sell, trade, or part out and start over. Many times I have tried to salvage similar setups by welding tweaking only to start over from scratch. Hopefully jake will heed the great advice and save himself some of the head ache. Thanks
 
Yeah that would weight out pretty well for scrap, then get something usefull and simple.
 
I've rebuilt a couple lifts on farm tractors that were double cylinder lifts. They were just bleeding down, going past the seals so I pulled them apart and put in new seals and rings. They were just standard fair with nothing special. As I recall they just had a simple drilled block for distribution. I don't remember anything in there as I remember pulling lines and seeing clear through. It was a Duhnam Lehr brand. Our international hoes looked the same. I'm pretty sure they relied of the lift frame rigid structure to overcome any lift variance. If one cylinder was bleeding down the whole thing would come down or you would hold the valve open slightly to keep it up when they got real bad. I remember we discussed taking both in to test to see which was bad but when they considered the time down and cost, they just had me rebuild both and forget it so we'd be all new again. Problem solved.
You could have checked the individual cyl without taking them off, buy pluggin hoses and removing a pin, but even if only one cyl was bad, fixing it would probably cause the other side to show its wear. Rebuilding both at the same time was probably the smart thing to do. I have seen those distribution block but have never took one apart. I always assumed they didnt have anything inside and just let oil pass, I think they are probably used because they are easy to mount instead of putting a tee in the line and fabing up a way to keep them in place.
 
I have a splitter with a 4"cylinder, 16gpm pump. My wedge is wider than it should be. That causes problems in twisted up wood. I can't imagine how much force you would need with a wedge as big as yours if you are going to split much hardwood.

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Valley, neither cyl will have pressure until resistance is felt. If one cyl hits resistance it will stop or slow until the pressure is equalized in the other cyl. On that you are correct. That is simply how it works. In order for the cyls to move at the same time, they have to be connected by some mechanical means. Otherwise one cyl would fully extend before the other cyl would move. On a dump truck with a cyl on each side of the frame, the cyl are tied together by the dump bed and the truck frame. I am sure if you have paid attention to a loaded truck lifting the bed, one side might come up before the other side, same for the fel on a tractor. One side gets heavier than the other because of uneven loading, the light side of the dump bed or loader bucket will rise first, but the other heavier side will follow, so both cyl extend. This is because the cyl are mechanically tied together thru the loader lift arms or dump frame. Pressure will build evenly in both cyl because the hyd cyl are tied together with the hoses, but one cyl might extend first because of the amount of force required to move the load. The greater the distance between the two cyl, the greater the uneven lift will be, if the distance between the cyl is really great, the hoist could actually seesaw lift as the one side loads and unloads. A dump truck with a single telescopic cyl works similar. The shaft is hollow with other shafts stuck inside of the main, larger cyl. Because each shaft has a smaller piston size then the shaft it is inserted in, the amount of force is reduced for the smaller shafts. Therefore under load, the bigger shaft will rise first, same pressure, but bigger pistion, until the shaft is fully extended, at which time the next smaller shaft will extend and at its full extention, the next shaft will start to extend. Same principle applies to lowering the lift, the smaller cyl will retract first, even under a gravity retraction because the smaller shaft takes less force to push back into the cyl barrel.
so, I understand the argument of starting over or trading for something different, but I don't think I'm there yet. I haven't done any more to it than replacing hoses and oil. I took a few more pictures today that might help diagnose any problems. keep in mind I hooked up pretty much all connections, and I had never seen a hydraulic system hooked up before. I was kind of flying blind. don't laugh too hard.
 
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I often need to split large hardwood rounds and figured this would be easier than quartering them with a chainsaw, then splitting. That was my rationale when I picked it up.

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Plus I wouldn't be lifting them. The regular splitters I had used in the past had mauls that were just too small, and some were horizontal only. Those were a pain in the back.

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Valley, neither cyl will have pressure until resistance is felt. If one cyl hits resistance it will stop or slow until the pressure is equalized in the other cyl. On that you are correct. That is simply how it works. In order for the cyls to move at the same time, they have to be connected by some mechanical means. Otherwise one cyl would fully extend before the other cyl would move. On a dump truck with a cyl on each side of the frame, the cyl are tied together by the dump bed and the truck frame. I am sure if you have paid attention to a loaded truck lifting the bed, one side might come up before the other side, same for the fel on a tractor. One side gets heavier than the other because of uneven loading, the light side of the dump bed or loader bucket will rise first, but the other heavier side will follow, so both cyl extend. This is because the cyl are mechanically tied together thru the loader lift arms or dump frame. Pressure will build evenly in both cyl because the hyd cyl are tied together with the hoses, but one cyl might extend first because of the amount of force required to move the load. The greater the distance between the two cyl, the greater the uneven lift will be, if the distance between the cyl is really great, the hoist could actually seesaw lift as the one side loads and unloads. A dump truck with a single telescopic cyl works similar. The shaft is hollow with other shafts stuck inside of the main, larger cyl. Because each shaft has a smaller piston size then the shaft it is inserted in, the amount of force is reduced for the smaller shafts. Therefore under load, the bigger shaft will rise first, same pressure, but bigger pistion, until the shaft is fully extended, at which time the next smaller shaft will extend and at its full extention, the next shaft will start to extend. Same principle applies to lowering the lift, the smaller cyl will retract first, even under a gravity retraction because the smaller shaft takes less force to push back into the cyl barrel.

That's what I said, just the Cliff Note version. Takes a long time to type on a phone, the keyboard is only big enough for 1 finger.

I went to school for it heavy equipment repair, part if that was learnin' them there "hydraulicks". Not that I'm an ex-spurt, but I've got an idear or 3.
 
I'd just redo that cobbled up plumbing and put a 22-30 gpm gear pump on the engine you have.
That pump looks like it was robbed off the Titanic. I suppose you could try and source the specs on it and test it, but it probably should go on Antiques Roadshow!

What size are the cylinders? They don't seem all that large.
 
Do you know that every one of those T's reducers, pipe, elbows and other misc. steam ship connectors cut your pressure by a certain % don't remember the exact amount right off top of my head but it would be a lot with that mess!! You are loosing a lot right there. but I don't think your pump is going to cut the musterd either!!!!!!!
 
Should be pretty easy to T in a pressure guage on that long nipple there, so you really see what's going on. Would just need another short nipple, and a T. And a guage on the T.

Or at the valve inlet. Or at the pump outlet. Wherever is easier to take apart & put together.
 
There looks to be a relief on the valve. Can you hear the relief scream when it will no longer split?
Have you tried adjusting that?
I know it's been stated but all those adapters, reducers and elbows aren't helping your cause.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how dangerous those galvanized fittings are either.

ETA: I hate to ask but do you have the inlet and outlet hoses hooked in their proper ports? Are the ports marked? The inlet port is usually larger than the outlet port. And something I just thought of, are you spinning it in the proper direction?
I know this is simple stuff but it can be mistaken.

ETA: I just saw on your pump the half arrow indicating the rotation direction.
Typically the in port is closest to the front.
I'm just throwing things out there that I see.
 
Do you know that every one of those T's reducers, pipe, elbows and other misc. steam ship connectors cut your pressure by a certain % don't remember the exact amount right off top of my head but it would be a lot with that mess!! You are loosing a lot right there. but I don't think your pump is going to cut the musterd either!!!!!!!
I thought about that. Like I said, this was the first time touching a hydraulic anything where plumbing was concerned.


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