"hook" or chisel angle when sharpening well used chains. Update: New Chain and Chip Pics.

[ANewSawyer]

Is there supposed to be rock in the roller guide? I just put my roller guide on the chain and there is movement of the roller guide on the chain. The guide is well seated. The roller guide has more play than the drive links in the bar groove. Is that normal?

EDIT: I am probably overthinking things again. It is most likely a non-issue.

2nd EDIT: The roller guide is marked on the bottom with the Pixel mark. That should mean it is for narrow kerf.

 

[Philbert]

When using the roller guide, make sure you have a clean 'gullet' below the file. You want the file to roll on the rollers, not ride on metal in the gullet.

Good point. If you are 'fighting' the guide (any guide), or just have it in place but not really using it as intended, it defeats the purpose.

Philbert

 

[ANewSawyer]

Good point, Terry and Philbert, but the gullet looks well cleaned out. The file hits the hook before anything else. I am checking the teeth with calipers to keep them pretty close to the same length.

I am working on the chain and the tip to keep the file 90 to the rollers is a big help.

 

[ANewSawyer]

Click on the picks for a bigger version. Be as harsh as you want to be in your critique of my sharpening. The light part at the top of the tooth is where I have sharpened. It should be very clear what I sharpened.

 

[Philbert]

Photos can always be misleading. But it almost looks like your top plate cutting edge does not meet your side plate cutting edge? Is this possible? They should meet in a smooth, curved, continuous sweep.

Philbert


(image from: http://www.husqvarna.com/uk/support/working-with-chainsaws/maintenance-of-cutting-equipment/)

 

[SawTroll]

I have been doing some exploritory sharpening with my swedish roller guide. I think the chain has been sharpened so much that the correct size file is putting too steep of a "hook" or maybe I should call it the chisel angle. This the bottom of the top plate that I am talking about. I think more then 20% of the file is above the top plate. Could I use a smaller file to bring the angle closer to the correct 20% of file above the plate? This is Husqvarna H30 chain. That should be the same as Oregon 95vp. And I think it is semi chisel.

Thanks for the help. I got to go!

The simple answer is yes - but make sure that the smaller file is getting high enough. If not, set the guide aside and file freehand.

 

[SawTroll]

Are you sure you are using the 3/16 file or the 4.5mm file, which is a tad smaller than the 3/16 file.

The 4.5mm (11/64") file is what I use for the last part of regular .325 cutters - but I don't use a guide, so I can't say how it works with those.

 

[SawTroll]

The difference in size is small, but it exists. Using a micrometre on the various files will illustrate the difference in sizes. As I recall, the Stihl 3/16 file (4.8mm) is the largest in diameter of the 3/16 files. Vallorbe and Save Edge are between the Husky and Stihl.

I use the Stihl file on my stumping chain as it gives slightly less hook when used on the roller guide.

The OP was looking for a smaller file, so the Husky file is the smallest of the lot. I've never used a 5/32 (4.5mm) file on the VP95, but I'd think it would be too small.

What files the different saw brands sell around the world varies, as far as I know?

Anyway, 4.5mm (4.4 really) files are not the same as 5/32" files - they are about 11/64". 5/32" is 4(.0)mm.

 

[ANewSawyer]

Photos can always be misleading. But it almost looks like your top plate cutting edge does not meet your side plate cutting edge? Is this possible? They should meet in a smooth, curved, continuous sweep.

Philbert

View attachment 373201
(image from: http://www.husqvarna.com/uk/support/working-with-chainsaws/maintenance-of-cutting-equipment/)

You are absolutely correct, the side plate and top plate don't meet. That is what made me think that the file was sitting to high. What do you people recommend I do?

That is a very helpful pic BTW. It looks like what I want my teeth to look like. I am trying to decide if the file is riding high or if the joker who sharpened this chain before me had a thing for really cleaning out the gullet, taking the side plate waaay back in the process.

 

[treeslayer2003]

Click on the picks for a bigger version. Be as harsh as you want to be in your critique of my sharpening. The light part at the top of the tooth is where I have sharpened. It should be very clear what I sharpened.

looks to me like your file needs to be deeper in the gullet...ie, you are not hitting the side at all and that makes your top plate to shallow.

 

[ANewSawyer]

looks to me like your file needs to be deeper in the gullet...ie, you are not hitting the side at all and that makes your top plate to shallow.

I must be doing something wrong then.

 

[Philbert]

What do you people recommend I do?

Figure it out. What do you need to to get the file where you want it?

Looks like you need to remove more of the top plate to get there? Use your file guide if that helps. Keep comparing it to your ideal picture, or to a new chain.

Both the top plate cutting edge and the side plate cutting edges are important.

Philbert

 

[Terry Syd]

Yeah, the side plate edge gets hammered cutting through the wood fibres when you're bucking. On a 30 degree top plate angle, the side plate angle will end up at 60 degrees - and it still ends up getting dull.

If you have put a wedge under the chain on the bottom of the bar (so the cutter can't move), try moving the file towards the cutter. Using one hand to pull the file and the other to push, you should be able to trim back the cutter

 

[ANewSawyer]

Well, I have spent about six hours on the chain today. Not kidding either. No, I wasn't trying to hack the chain to pieces but I did take my time. One or two strokes then check the cutter. I think I know what I was doing wrong with the roller guide. I was keeping the file flat on the guide but the guide itself was angled. I made a mental effort to keep the file flat and the guide flat. It really made a difference. The cutters look a lot better. I am able to get down into the gullet this way. I am sick of looking at chain so I will wait until tomorrow to put it up pictures.

Thank you, thank you, thank you to all who posted!!! You have really helped me.

Now I hope it cuts straight. It would be terrible if it doesn't.

 

[Philbert]

The time you spent was an education. It won't take you that long again. Go see how it cuts, and let us know!

Philbert

 

[ANewSawyer]

I looked at it as an education. Once I have the cutters sharpened the way I want, it reduces resharpening time.

I want to see how it cuts but I still haven't had any instruction. Maybe I could get away with a couple of test cuts... Edit: I should mention that the cuts would be in some box elder logs that my dad cut off of a standing tree earlier this year.

 

[Terry Syd]

Looks like you put in some good educational time. I confess that the first time I used the roller guide I got it on BACKWARDS and did one whole side wrong. When I started on the other side I noticed what I had done and had to rework the whole chain to get the cutters the same length. - THAT was educational!

After that first screw-up I started paying attention to the physics of the cutter and how it worked, which then made it clear how to file it to make it do its job.

 

[ANewSawyer]

Don't feel too bad, Terry, because I was trying to put the file through the hole in the side of roller guide the first time I used it. Still haven't figured out what that hole is for...

I have a dumb question related to sharpness though. In browsing the site, I have seen a couple of passing references to" low" kickback chain cutting slower. Will that be an issue on my chain? You can see clearly in the photos I posted that my chain is "low" kickback chain.

 

[Philbert]

The hole in your roller guide is supposed to be an aid to help you select the right diameter file for that chain.

There are different styles of low kickback chain. Some have very obtrusive, high tie straps. Yours has a slight bump on the drive link. It will not be a problem as long as you keep your cutters sharp, for the kind of cutting that you will do.

Some low kickback chain can be an issue on longer bars, when the entire bar is buried in the wood, and when bore cutting. They are not a problem for general use, and provide a benefit: protection against kickback, which is a serious safety issue. They are are appropriate for what you will use them for.

A lot of guys on this site will b*tch and moan about how slow they cut, but I have seen guys win races with chain similar to yours.

Philbert

 

[ANewSawyer]

A lot of guys on this site will b*tch and moan about how slow they cut, but I have seen guys win races with chain similar to yours.

Well, I am not planning to do any racing and bore cutting is way out of my league. But I did want to know if "low" kickback chain would make a difference in cutting. Good to hear that is won't.

I have new shots of my cutters but I am going to spin the shots off into a new thread. Here is sneak peak: