How many use coolant while grinding chain?

[Beavergirl]

I perfomed a search using keyword "coolant" and came up empty.

Here is my setup. I'll post a picture of it this weekend. It's not fancy but works very well for me at this time. When I inherited the 041AVE I also received the K50 Neilsen grinder mfg by the defunct Bell Industries. Like the 041, brand new 25 years old.

This is the first grinder I've ever used for grinding chainsaw chain. I'm using the supplied 7/32 4" wheel on Stihl round chisel chain.

I found the wheel heat treating the tip of the cutter tooth so I started to use a spray bottle to squirt water during the grinding phase. I would usually take about 4-6 cuts to complete a grind on one tooth. The Neilsen grinder is heeled over to the left so the chisel point was the first contact for the wheel for all leftside chain cutters. The cooling effect of the water kept the wheel from discoloring the tooth. The problem is the rightside chain cutters. It's not easy to squirt from a squirt bottle enough fluid to the far side to keep any heat damage from occurring.

So here is what I plan on doing this weekend. I bought a small milling machine style atomizer. It works off compressed air with a venturi to vacuum the coolant into the air stream. I know it will work for me but I was wondering how many others use coolant?

Remember that Dolmar 115 I spoke of the other day? It sported an Oregon round chisel chain. Am I correct in ascertaining that Oregon chain hardness is less than current Stihl chain? Just wondering because it was easy to grind the Oregon but required more effort to move through the top section of the Stihl cutter.

C-

 

[jokers]

Hi Beavergirl, I like the idea of an atomized coolant but what sort of environment does it create for the grinder motor or bearings? I`m also wondering about the effect on the wheels themselves, are they susceptible to water damage, hate to have one explode on you. I`ve only used on type of coolant, Koolgrind in a stick. I didn`t like it because it seemed to load the wheel too much. Luckily I was saved from further aggravation when a chipmunk or something ate the whole d@mn stick, which was the large economy size. I have been looking for a very large aqua marine scat in an attempt to identify the perpetrator but so far have come up empty.

Russ

 

[Tom Dunlap]

When I was grinding chain I used scented wax candles as coolants. After getting the wheel up to speed I'd press the stub in and roll it side to side.

The wheels always seemed to stay dressed longer and the smell is much better too.

Cheap and low tech!

Tom

 

[Sethro]

I do, I do
When grinding a carbite tooth or grinding chrome with a diamond
stone to keep to tooth cool an becoming brittle,I use windshed washer fluid, you should not dress a diamond stone. Seth

 

[Stumper]

Nelson, What exploded? There are pieces of stuff flying everywhere in that pic!

 

[Keener]

Whoa ! a chipmunk ate the whole stick of Koolgrind Wow !
My guess would be a Beaver strung out on crack.
That has the makings of a very good reason why someone might get their chain back from the saw shop with blue teeth.
It is all starting to make sense now, you must live near the Pickering nuke plant and radiated rodents are consuming all the grinding coolant in the area.
From what I gather this is happening more and more across the U.S. and Canada.
The scary thing is what will they consume next when the Koolgrind runs out.

 

[Tony Snyder]

Using a soft wheel seems to make for the least tooth burning. I wish we could buy the grey Silvey wheels for other grinders.

A little off the post subject, but I used to do a bit of hot tank gun blueing, so had many buffing wheels and several kinds of buffing compound. Dogs and coons would carry off some of those tubes of compound.

 

[Keener]

Tony, I have to disagree on the issue of being off topic regarding animal consumtion of grinding and buffing compounds.
Consider for a moment if this becomes more widespread.
As Rocky Squirrel has stated most people ( present company accepted) can not sharpen chain and thus rely on the local saw shop to do it.
If, as I suspect that the above mentioned incidents are the tip of the iceberg, think of what it could do to North American industry.
This could totally change the way the forest industry harvests trees.
Perhaps Arborsite could start a new organization, W.A.R.R, Woodworkers Against Rampaging Rodents or perhaps the more inclusive W.A.R.M., Woodworkers Against Rampaging Mammals.
I think the T-shirts alone would pay much of the start up costs, don't you think?




Note: No animals where harmed in the creation of this post.

 

[dbabcock]

Hi Candice, Gypo here. I am posting under the manipulating blabermouth's username cause we are here at his place in N.H, Live Free, Or Die, as it says on the N.H. licence plate.
Anywho, Doug and Jane were enthrauled at Susie's and my inproptu visit, and why wouldnt they be? We all went out and had lobster at the best place in New England.
Anyway, getting back on topic, it is better to use the wheel dry, for a crisper, cooler grind, anything else causes carbon retension, thus burning, however, in the States they sometimes use never dull, or beaver jam, as it is known in Canada.
Hope this helps, What's Cookin', Good Lookin'?
P.S., wish I could post my usual off topic picture, but alas, DB's computer is too complicated for me, so please stay tuned.
Save a Tree, Eat a Beaver, and no, I dont have SARS.
John From Toronto, but in N.H, having a beverage or two.
John Lambert

 

[LumberMaster]

When I was grinding chain I used scented wax candles as coolants. After getting the wheel up to speed I'd press the stub in and roll it side to side.

The wheels always seemed to stay dressed longer and the smell is much better too.

Cheap and low tech!

Tom

Let me see if I understand correct. You put wax candles on both sides of the wheel at full speed. Do you do this just once for each chain or as needed? Not a bad idea.
Although, I don't understand "roll it side to side"? Holding the wax as you sharp the chain?

 

[MCW]

I've never used coolant however I now use exclusively ABN/CBN Dinasaw wheels. Very difficult to overheat a tooth with these type of wheels.
Even with the standard wheels if you're careful and not too aggressive you won't cook a tooth. Most of the overheating issues lie with inexperienced operators or people who are grinding severely damaged cutters too fast (refer back to inexperienced).
Also I remember reading somewhere that the standard wheels are NOT to be used wet. It effects their integrity and therefore their safety under load and high(ish) rpm.

 

[GASoline71]

Let me see if I understand correct. You put wax candles on both sides of the wheel at full speed. Do you do this just once for each chain or as needed? Not a bad idea.
Although, I don't understand "roll it side to side"? Holding the wax as you sharp the chain?

Dude... this thread is 7 years old. Not a single person in this thread posts here anymore.

Gary

 

[MCW]

Dude... this thread is 7 years old. Not a single person in this thread posts here anymore.

Gary

Except I was silly enough to Gary

 

[tdi-rick]

Dude... this thread is 7 years old. Not a single person in this thread posts here anymore.

Gary

Naa, Gypo's in it Garry, he's posted under babcock's handle

 

[imagineero]

Don't worry Matt,
I feel no shame in posting on old threads no matter how old they are. x10 If I found the thread by searching and had something worth adding to it. Maybe be of no use at all to the OP, but it helps build up the knowledge base

FWIW, I've never had much luck with chainsaw sharpening machines. I've never owned one, But I've used a few of the pricier ones. I just find them to be like most types of sharpening; too coarse, too fast, too little control and too hot.

I've been sharpening blades of all types (knives, scissors, drill bits, planes, chisels etc etc) for since I was a teenager and now do it professionally. I have a few different machines for different purposes but almost all are slow (less than 90rpm) and almost all are immersed in water baths (except leather buffs). If you are heating any edge beyond the point where you could comfortable touch it with your bare hands then you are affecting the temper. If you're getting a sizzle when dipping in water then you've gone way too far. If you get blueing, you deserve to be slapped.

In any sharpening process, once you have your stone grit, speed and temperature right it all comes down to the precision with which you can present the edge to the stone, and manipulate it to maintain geometry. Consistency is critical, and the ability to adjust in small (say, half degree or less) increments is important. With most of my straight edge sharpening equipment I can consistently sharpen a blade within 1/4 of a degree, taking off less metal than can be measured with a micrometer. I can get the same edge every single time, consistent along the entire blade length and the metal is likely to get cooler rather than hotter during the sharpening. It generally starts at room temperature and might drop by 2-3 degrees during sharpening.

Sometimes geometry is simple, like a planer blade. Sometimes a little more complex, like a drill bit. I think saw cutter geometry is sufficiently complex that you won't find a reasonably priced machine that will do it. Access to the cutter face is slightly tricky. The variables are the profile of the cutter (hollow ground), the height of the stone/file on the tooth in profile, the vertical angle (should be flat) and the horizontal angle (varies with intended use of the saw). On top of this you want to ideally make each tooth even in size. We'll leave raker geometry out just to keep it simple!

For a machine to do all of these consistently, it wont be cheap. It's hard to envision anything in the sub $1000 class fulfilling all of the requirements. I'd be interested to see how the manufacturers do it.

For me, the only thing that will come close is.... a handfile.

 

[MCW]

FWIW, I've never had much luck with chainsaw sharpening machines. I've never owned one, But I've used a few of the pricier ones. I just find them to be like most types of sharpening; too coarse, too fast, too little control and too hot.

For me, the only thing that will come close is.... a handfile.

I know where you're coming from mate but to compare a chainsaw cutter to a precision knife blade is a bit problematic.

No matter how good of an edge you get on a chainsaw cutter it is gone in seconds. Many people here go on about "razor sharp" but in reality super sharp chainsaw chains are pointless. Maybe in clean balsa wood there is a difference.
There are most certainly bad grinders (I've owned a dodgey MAXX) that aren't worth a pinch of sh*t.
As far as temperatures go I mainly agree however when steel gets too hot to touch it doesn't mean the temper has gone out of it at all. 400°c then yes, but 80°c is also too hot to touch yet will not affect steel tempering in any way, shape or form.
A good grinder with a bad operator will cause issues, a bad grinder with a good operator will have problems, but a good grinder with a good operator will do as good of a job as anybody with a round file.

Hey don't take what I've said the wrong way mate, and I appreciate a sharp knife as much as the next guy (I know thats your specialty), but a chainsaw chain doesn't perform any better with that little bit of extra polishing or finishing.

 

[mtngun]

FWIW, I've never had much luck with chainsaw sharpening machines. I've never owned one

The first few times someone uses a chain grinder, they almost always "burn" the chain. It takes practice to develop the right technique. Once you get it down, good results are easy to come by. If you get one of the hi-tech wheels, even easier still.

I agree that the grinder wheels spin faster than ideal. I presume that is done because it is cheaper to make a direct drive grinder rather than using some kind of speed reduction. Nonetheless, a good grinding technique yields good results.

I'm guessing cutters are tempered around 400 - 500 degrees -- anything less would be brittle as glass -- so you can certainly get a cutter warm to the touch without ruining the temper.

 

[Gypo Logger]

LOL!

If that's what you want to believe!

Lol, still a few lurking.

When you think about it, the sharpest instruments are ground and polished, not hand filed. I can't remember the last time I saw someone hand file a razor blade. I will admit though that chain grinders have a way to go, but that maybe be in the grinding wheel itself.
John

 

[nmurph]

chain can come out of the cut and be too hot to comfortably touch.........the trick to a grinder is to use a tap-tap-tap technique.

 

[Little Al]

If your grinding wheel is made from Silica/carbide ie, looks like a standard abrasive wheel PLEASE DO NOT use any form of liquid on it to cool/clean or whatever. I`m retired from the aircraft industry & have been involved in a lot of machining of various metals,& have seen someone very badly injured through using a grinding wheel that when inspected had been put in a damp place It shattered & took a large chunk from his head/face. If your wheel is damp & the place you have your machine drops to 32f/0c using that wheel is a recipe for disaster,even having been or being wet will probably cause it to fail .Wouldn`t like to hear of anyone getting hurt. keep it DRY & use shorter blips on the handle Take Care.