Humboldt vs. Conventional

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Interesting? Is he not respected?

So this is your sign folks .

Yes he, Bjarne Butler; is respected by all except those who see him as some type of intellectual competition, yet again you get a few folks full of themselves trying to some how move to the top of some imaginary stack defined by them. Here is another fellow well respected, check out the response to this one. :) That will be yet another "sign" is my guess.

You can learn more from a guy like this than all the BS online from any of the self proclaimed experts. In fact especially the self proclaimed experts. Wonder how many Ya-buts are in here.


 
So this is your sign folks .

Yes he, Bjarne Butler; is respected by all except those who see him as some type of intellectual competition, yet again you get a few folks full of themselves trying to some how move to the top of some imaginary stack defined by them. Here is another fellow well respected, check out the response to this one. :) That will be yet another "sign" is my guess.

You can learn more from a guy like this than all the BS online from any of the self proclaimed experts. In fact especially the self proclaimed experts. Wonder how many Ya-buts are in here.



Who told you he is respected by all? If a guy is a good Faller I will say it?
People want to have reality shows or be YouTube's, and you either end up a hero or a zero. I know which end they end up on.

Sorry If the truth hurts you feelers? Question?

Or do you want to keep running off?

Not looking at your stupid video either.
 
Who told you he is respected by all? If a guy is a good Faller I will say it?
People want to have reality shows or be YouTube's, and you either end up a hero or a zero. I know which end they end up on.

Sorry If the truth hurts you feelers? Question?

Or do you want to keep running off?

Not looking at you stupid video either.
Good could care less if you watch a thing actually, but this is the second place I've seen your crap. So if you are the standard of "excellence" god help us all. :) LOL your response is....actually funny. My feelers hurt? And to YouTube? Could care less about that as well...lots of folks watch Disney too. Pure entertainment. You? As far as I'm concerned, from what I see.... just another arrogant POS. How's that for honesty.
 
And another. The beauty of his videos comes in a few parts, unlike MOST he isn't SELLING a thing. He isn't PREACHING a thing. He is just giving a window into his world. One very different than mine and probably most of yours. He has no "axe" to grind as the premise of this entire thread has . Just a man showing his world. For me that's refreshing.

 
So this is your sign folks .

Yes he, Bjarne Butler; is respected by all except those who see him as some type of intellectual competition, yet again you get a few folks full of themselves trying to some how move to the top of some imaginary stack defined by them. Here is another fellow well respected, check out the response to this one. :) That will be yet another "sign" is my guess.

You can learn more from a guy like this than all the BS online from any of the self proclaimed experts. In fact especially the self proclaimed experts. Wonder how many Ya-buts are in here.




A video most should watch and internalize :) CAREFULL who you get advice from. Should avoid the on line ego types and find some one local who knows your world, buyers, type of timber, and equipment.



John Adler On Swing Cutting With A Humboldt. Terrible audio, but points to the Achilles heel of a few things related. :)


the problem with the Adler guy, he talks to ****ing much, all round and round stories to basically say do it his way because he said so.
I've watched a handful or well tried to watch a handful of his videos. Frankly its the same tired east coast BS and he's playing off his farmer logging like its something no one else has ever been successful at, leaving a strap on just about every tree... really? Not sticking with one when you need to steer it a little, man GTFO.

Straps/triggers are really only useful on hard leaning timber, otherwise its pointless time wasting drivel.

As for sticking with the tree.. . when your trees are over 90' tall on average accuracy can be the difference between getting paid and starving, is it risky, absolutely, but its what the job requires. Should your average firewood sport faller try it NEVER, but it don't matter if firewood breaks. matters quite a lot when 90' or more of marketable lumber is smashed into kindling.
Sticking with the stump is doubly important when swinging trees, its also even more dangerous, but he is correct, never swing one that you can't afford to have go wrong, its a tool, but like a harbor freight adjustable wrench, it might get you out of a jam, but its probably going to break something when it fails.
Sure, you can say my ego is at work here, and thats fine, but I have learned from many a damned good cutter, and I do my best to pass that knowledge on to others without being a prick about it.

nothing worse then some old codger declaring themselves an expert because they did it and got old at it and they've been here and there and everywhere, except where you are... yawn.... there are dozens, nay 1000's of ways to do it wrong and still grow old
And yes, I'm sure that dude has a few nuggets of wisdom to pass on, everyone does, but really, his methods are very much HIS WAY and to be taken with a great deal of salt.
 
The problem with you is you type to F**ing much and really don't show anything except your arrogance trying to down grade those who really are intellectual competition to you. Your world doesn't fit where he is and visa versa. Instead of accepting that, even appreciating that; you do exactly as you just have done. And that should be a "sign" for all who watch & read this. You sir are a waste of time. Nothing to learn from you except how to get close minded and in fact hurt possibly killed. Rather than learn. You dig in. All those here need to internalize that. What you are watching with THIS guy is how pride effects reason.
Tell me you are functionally illiterate without telling me you are functionally illiterate?

There is no "intellectual competition" from some self proclaimed timber sage there bud, he knows one way and see's everyone else's methods through the lens of his own understanding, which is limited at best (call that a warning to all old people that think simply being old is deserving of respect).
FYI I'm not the guy making long winded diatribes about how I've seen it all and done everything in a vain attempt to cover up my blatant ignorance. But I do know enough to call BS when I see it. and you're absolutely correct, his PRIDE is effecting his reasoning.
 
I'm not shy to talk about this biz. I have asked you two questions in a row. So since I'm the experienced BC west coast Faller then.. talk man. Start with those two questions first? It's becoming a bit disrespectful on your part.
It might be a misunderstanding on my part about the question. "How" not "who" is a better question.
I look at business aspects of gainful employment and knowledgeable out come of perceived practices, both of which he has documented proof.
If there's a contradiction of this I haven't seen it.
Im not really sure how anyone can take offense to my question about that ?
Anyway its pretty well established in the USDA and ISA programs on the safest way to drop trees this is more of an option on cut technique for timber harvesting.
So I will clarify that, top cut first to sight your drop and then bottom.
 
T?

There is no "intellectual competition" from some self proclaimed timber sage there bud, he knows one way and see's everyone else's methods through the lens of his own understanding, which is limited at best (call that a warning to all old people that think simply being old is deserving of respect).
FYI I'm not the guy making long winded diatribes about how I've seen it all and done everything in a vain attempt to cover up my blatant ignorance. But I do know enough to call BS when I see it. and you're absolutely correct, his PRIDE is effecting his reasoning.
SOSDD for page after page. And expect everyone to some how "bow" to your brand like its some sort of a religion. This entire thread is devoted to the promotion of you and your way, which is your world I'm sure is perfectly valid as I'm sure you are good at what you do. But that misses the point. This subject has been churned for decades. There isn't a thing in all these pages that hasn't been aired out ad nauseum, volume and insults won't make your approach any more or less relevant or valid. BUT will make it less likely what ever nuggets buried within the noise will actually hit their targets. Your basic premise is true both here and that other place you started a thread spread your spooge .... careful who u learn from. And what I have learned is you aren't it. Someone like John Adler is. I'm not promoting his particular brand, just those actual professionals like him. Paul Smith's is a center of forestry knowledge. These people associated with programs like GOL have researched and studied this industry for decades and for you to dismiss them as you have with the intensity really is proof of my point. Pride & Arrogance out weighs reason and logic with you and folks like you. Why you are in fact the one to avoid, a demonstrably a small mind combined with an abundance of pride produces threads like this. My humble advice to those here who would engage. Don't waste your time. And if you truly are serious about learning the craft, just ignore the online noise from the fanatics like these guys here and go to an organization like the following for actual training. They likely will pile on more layers of ****. This is my refrain , leave this thread and those like them. Go to where research and reason is demonstrated and away from where ego , online "fads", and pride determine right and wrong. ( Some will remember that old "Your so Vain" Carly Simon Song , U Mr. Northern Log guy actually think I'm talking to you )

https://www.paulsmiths.edu/game-of-logging/
 
Actually if the premise "Humboldt vs conventional" was about where to apply one vs. the other, this would have been a useful thread. A true place to start in any felling discussion has to start with safety first, then what does your employer, landowner, or log buyer want. Then work into the technique that most fits the definition of win starting with safety as a constant. As to "Humboldt" and "conventional". Humboldt has no place here for many of the tree's but does in certain situations.

Back to this GOL video. This video is a "low common denominator" to start from and then work out to more advanced techniques to fit the trees, territory, business environment. Not "Humboldt vs. Conventional". That's like an argument in motocross of feet up vs. azz down riding common to single track. Yet again points out the true premise & intent of those who started this same thread in multiple places.

 
Tell me you are functionally illiterate without telling me you are functionally illiterate?

There is no "intellectual competition" from some self proclaimed timber sage there bud, he knows one way and see's everyone else's methods through the lens of his own understanding, which is limited at best (call that a warning to all old people that think simply being old is deserving of respect).
FYI I'm not the guy making long winded diatribes about how I've seen it all and done everything in a vain attempt to cover up my blatant ignorance. But I do know enough to call BS when I see it. and you're absolutely correct, his PRIDE is effecting his reasoning.

Our difference start from our approach to life. You are procedure driven as demonstrated now for weeks in this thread, I'm situation driven and will build a plan from data learn from you, John Adler, anyplace with information without prejudice.
 
Our difference start from our approach to life. You are procedure driven as demonstrated now for weeks in this thread, I'm situation driven and will build a plan from data learn from you, John Adler, anyplace with information without prejudice.
Ok, you stand up for GOL, and some swedish poser that invented it?(mofo has 40 years... of telling people he's the best... yeah ok) cool YOU are narrowing your scope without ever listening to what others have to say. Is there good aspects to the GOL program sure, it teaches situational awareness, and assessment rather well, however it also teaches a bunch of hokey pokey dancing about a stump which is pointless and causes a great deal of extra work, as I and many others have been pointing out FOR YEARS.

You make a great deal of assumptions about me, and about how I approach any "procedure" Difference is I have real world experience, and when I hear of a new technique I will try it, sometimes even if it looks really dumb because I'm always looking to improve. And if you pay attention I don't call BS on stuff unless I can explain WHY its BS.


I've been called arrogant many times, generally by people who ended up getting fired for their own stupidity, I don't suffer fools. Call it whatever you want.
 


Good could care less if you watch a thing actually, but this is the second place I've seen your crap. So if you are the standard of "excellence" god help us all. :) LOL your response is....actually funny. My feelers hurt? And to YouTube? Could care less about that as well...lots of folks watch Disney too. Pure entertainment. You? As far as I'm concerned, from what I see.... just another arrogant POS. How's that for honesty.
Jer, seems like a nice guy, have some mutual friends. Donny Walker I have known since first day of grade 8. (42 yrs ago). He ports his saws. Jer's 572 seems like ****. He is a lazy filler/sharpener. Runs stock chain out of the box.
Makes vid all day and makes a mockery out of our profession? It is not the reality of what goes on. Obviously it's buddy's company and he's a working Supervisor. (Bullbuck) That's not the way it is. We hammer a marathon for 6 1/2 hours and proudly do it.
I would take 12.5 min breaks x 2 ,+ 5 min to make 7 h through the day. I was making 700 per day, 107 per hour. It's not a film show. Not calling him a dog ******* He probably makes 900? or maybe he has is own deal in order to do this. IDK? I want max production. I did years of piece work. If it was turn-key then how many vids would he be making? Maybe the same, making money off YouTube.
He is really slow but fast or slow doesn't make you good or bad.

He's good at scaffolding, better than most. He is creative. Lots of stuff he is good at. Bucking for sure. He has more big wood experience than I do but I see him make so many mistakes. Dosen't take THAT long to figure it out.
Guy has been doing it for a while now. Watched the guy put a window into a hole? C' on man. Also forget to 'beavertail' the undercut. 8ft cedar. Any good Faller would be ashamed for putting a window in a 8ft solid tree with a 36' bar. That's a fact. Not a hater, he seems like a sweetheart of a man. Most good B.C. WC Fallers are out spoken and are haters. I wouldn't think he is in the good books at all other than his buddies and the up and coming.
The guy needs a handler also.( if money is his thing) He could probably make 5 times the money on 'YouTube time' if he did it probably.

Just my 2 cents.
All the best to him.
I wish him safe.
 
Geez Louise guys, give it a break. Ad Hominem does nothing good to improve discussion.

Both styles of cutting are taught professionally by guys who are strong adherents to their preferred style of cutting. If you’ve taken or helped teach S-212 in different regions you are well aware of this. They both have merits, and also downsides. Ask some of the fire guys who went from the west coast to help in NC, TN and KY a few years back. Several of them got hurt, a few really bad. Both of you haven’t cut the same types of trees.

Conifers and even west coast deciduous trees in alpine and subalpine areas of the Cascades, Sierras and the western slopes of the Rockies are different than the short, fat trees found in the midwest, southeast and mid-atlantic regions of the US. They’re easier to control and judge lean and limb weight. Humboldts and back cuts work great, and the Coos Bay cut is great for leaners. You can argue all you want, but they just are. Deciduous trees here short, have large crowns and usually less diameter on the stump. The wood is more brittle, generally. They will split and chair on you. Cedar and Madrone will too. The simple fact of the matter is that the trees that are out here are different than the ones there and comparing things without having done both shows ignorance on both parties.

No one is the end all expert on cutting trees down.
 
Ok, you stand up for GOL, and some swedish poser that invented it?(mofo has 40 years... of telling people he's the best... yeah ok) cool YOU are narrowing your scope without ever listening to what others have to say. Is there good aspects to the GOL program sure, it teaches situational awareness, and assessment rather well, however it also teaches a bunch of hokey pokey dancing about a stump which is pointless and causes a great deal of extra work, as I and many others have been pointing out FOR YEARS.

You make a great deal of assumptions about me, and about how I approach any "procedure" Difference is I have real world experience, and when I hear of a new technique I will try it, sometimes even if it looks really dumb because I'm always looking to improve. And if you pay attention I don't call BS on stuff unless I can explain WHY its BS.


I've been called arrogant many times, generally by people who ended up getting fired for their own stupidity, I don't suffer fools. Call it whatever you want.
I don't stand up for anyone. I just wasn't afraid to listen learn and try. Both your approach and his. I ended up with his. And in fact I make no assumptions about you until a month of evidence defined who and what your are, and honestly I couldn't care less. In fact it seems like your the one who cares and is butt hurt. Just look at the raw data, and after trying to read thru the last month of the thread, by the end knew exactly who you are. Can't hide that. And guess what. I'm an independent thinker. You may be and probably are pretty good at what u do.

Some people can learn some can't , when you have your approach to life along with the now demonstrated desire to blast a non stop stream of what you want others to hear and believe. And berate those who don't subscribe to your approach. You, mot me; in fact can't listen and learn. Same knowledge set with an open mind and the ability to learn and you would be quite valuable. It's not "me" standing up for The "Swedish Poser", it's understand what is behind places like Paul Smiths and those who built the GOL training program that is now the predominate training program for this part of the world juxtae opposed to your stated approach. One I tried and really quickly realized does not work for me and most who do as I do. Just that simple. Add your BS on top of that? Waste of time is the conclusion. Now all full og BS and pride you will fight to re-assert your assumed position. And frankly you and those who follow are welcome to it. IF it work's please show it off and continue. I certainly wouldn't begrudge you that. But your feel the need to diminish theirs. Like I said. Waste Of Time. BTW I don't see you really as arrogant. Just a bit challenged part because your pride and part because you don't seem capable of understanding any other environment. And...as you say "You don't suffer fools", that's pretty funny, neither do I; I'm having some fun with one right now. :)
 
Geez Louise guys, give it a break. Ad Hominem does nothing good to improve discussion.

Both styles of cutting are taught professionally by guys who are strong adherents to their preferred style of cutting. If you’ve taken or helped teach S-212 in different regions you are well aware of this. They both have merits, and also downsides. Ask some of the fire guys who went from the west coast to help in NC, TN and KY a few years back. Several of them got hurt, a few really bad. Both of you haven’t cut the same types of trees.

Conifers and even west coast deciduous trees in alpine and subalpine areas of the Cascades, Sierras and the western slopes of the Rockies are different than the short, fat trees found in the midwest, southeast and mid-atlantic regions of the US. They’re easier to control and judge lean and limb weight. Humboldts and back cuts work great, and the Coos Bay cut is great for leaners. You can argue all you want, but they just are. Deciduous trees here short, have large crowns and usually less diameter on the stump. The wood is more brittle, generally. They will split and chair on you. Cedar and Madrone will too. The simple fact of the matter is that the trees that are out here are different than the ones there and comparing things without having done both shows ignorance on both parties.

No one is the end all expert on cutting trees down.
Truth right here, I'm not arguing against his approach at all. Never once questioned the validity. Just argue his approach to evangelizing his to those out here by trying to berate some of the institutions out here designed to build safe practices. No more no less. If I were to go out there, I would invest in training to learn that world. Would recommend that to anyone. The converse is not true. That is the rub.
 

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