Hutzl

[spike60]

OK. I'll go now.

Don't do any such thing. Been a good debate here and I respect what you have to say. Just a discussion we're having., that's all. So stick around.

DD is an upright guy, trying to take care of others here in the saw community. Doing a good job from all I hear.

My perspective on this is that as a reputable dealer, I can't sell parts that I HOPE are going to be OK. Warranties are great, but the inconvenience and down time of a failure are still there whether or not the parts are covered under a warranty. In the saw site world, a failure is not a big deal, especially for guys who have several saws. Joe Customer doesn't have a dozen saws, and doesn't look at saw repairs as recreational spending.

There is also a huge distinction between guys doing their own work and having a shop do it. Adding shop labor to a rebuild job means a significant expence for the customer even with cheap chinese parts. (BTW, I sell the OEM 55 kit for sround $185. List on those is silly) So, for a guy who can do his own work and wants to bring a dead saw back to life, these parts can be a good way to go. And half the guys on this site are better at working on saws than a lot of dealers are.

I have said before, and should repeat, that these parts can be a good low cost source for those who want to have some fun building these saws. And many of them will run a long time as a personal use saw. Especially for a guy who owns a few saws. I use some of them in my own experiments. I get AM pistons for $9.98, so it's a no risk deal for me to use them in some of my own project saws. Great stuff for those of us in the enthusiast world, and likely fine for the 3-5 cord a year firewood guy too. So, it's all OK............here. But as a dealer, I have to stay away from this stuff.

So, everything's cool, Poge. Cheers to you too.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Something I can certainly relate too! But I'm curious about things like the MS250 experience... Like you, I have a lot of saws to choose from. Right now my two choices are " saw on the tractor " Cyclops & fugly 350's because I had fun building them and like running them.. and the 350 doesn't give me a back ache.

Yeah, that's why I usually hang on to the smallish size saws and let the muscle guys use the 660s and the like. My biggest saw right now is a Homelite XL925 and it's just for looks.

 

[weimedog]

And after later viewing of some of the YouTube material in which you were involved, I was a little surprised at the lack of reference to some of that material as a basis for a more comprehensive representation of your position/opinion on the actual Huztl discussion itself.

After all, is Huztl good? Bad? Upside down?

I'm goin' way out on a what (in my opinion) is a humorous limb with a resounding, "It depends."

Last time I checked tho, an OEM top end for a Husky 55 Rancher was still north of $300. That's simply insane -- regardless of your religion or drug use/medication.

On a more positive and less contentious note, I've really been enjoying the Y-Tube stuff and learning a few things in the process. Good stuff and done in a way that sorta brings the viewer into the experience.....and indeed demonstrates some interesting aspects of he Huztl stuff....mostly favorable, IMHO.

OK. I'll go now.

No! Don't Go! Nice to hear someone who gets it! Bob needles me on the Huztl stuff. (all in fun).. nice to have a little support from time to time! He even dissed Cyclops. And I agree with your "depends" analysis BTW. (Not ready to use those just yet, but life is moving really fast!)

Two points:
Bob has experienced the AM mostly through his distributer sources, not so much with Huztl...
Conversely I have experienced the AM primarily through Huztl. I tried the other places typically accessible through eBay which is an avenue Spike60 doesn't take for a whole lot of reasons... Of course I needle him because one of those "distribution" sources for shops like spike60's sent multiple suppliers stuff in boxes with the same part number. That was all he needed to move along as that's a gamble he doesn't have time to make. AND my experience has been really bad with the OTHER direct line sources to Pacific Rim parts in contrast to the excellent luck I've had with Huztl. I've had a boat load of fun with saws stuck together with those Huztl parts!
Another point...Spike60 has a supply of salvage OEM parts because he is in the business therefore less need even for hobby saws for low cost parts. We don't, therefore places like Huztl allow us to meddle in saws we could never justify with OEM prices.

And last I did see your reference to crash damage. I do use AM parts for crash damage saws.. and those customers actually appreciate it because more often than not its the crash that kills the saw long before anything critical wears out! There is a MS660 that is a frequent flyer and a 385 as well....

 

[Rx7man]

Spike, you bring up a good point.. if a person is paying a shop to install a cylinder, the price of the cylinder (or difference in price) becomes a lesser part of the bill. If one of my saws fail, it's not a big deal, I have a half dozen more that will do just fine, and I do my own work.. Taking the top end off a Husky 61 is a 10 minute job anyhow.. I just about call it "field service"

For dealers OEM or AM, the key ingredient is honesty and being upfront about possible defects... In some cases it may even be usable as a sales pitch on a new saw with new saw warranty.

I mentioned earlier about the differences in base metal on Hutzl jugs, and after running my piped saw for a while, I think I may be on to something. I think the Hutzl cylinders MIGHT expand more with heat than OEM... this is a mixed blessing... If you overheat the saw, it falls on it's face and loses power (been there now, done that), but the upside to it is it seems to save the piston from binding and scuffing, which isn't a bad thing.

 

[weimedog]

Spike, you bring up a good point.. if a person is paying a shop to install a cylinder, the price of the cylinder (or difference in price) becomes a lesser part of the bill. If one of my saws fail, it's not a big deal, I have a half dozen more that will do just fine, and I do my own work.. Taking the top end off a Husky 61 is a 10 minute job anyhow.. I just about call it "field service"

For dealers OEM or AM, the key ingredient is honesty and being upfront about possible defects... In some cases it may even be usable as a sales pitch on a new saw with new saw warranty.

I mentioned earlier about the differences in base metal on Hutzl jugs, and after running my piped saw for a while, I think I may be on to something. I think the Hutzl cylinders MIGHT expand more with heat than OEM... this is a mixed blessing... If you overheat the saw, it falls on it's face and loses power (been there now, done that), but the upside to it is it seems to save the piston from binding and scuffing, which isn't a bad thing.

Interesting thought. I'm not certain density is the only factor that effects a materials expansion rate when the temperature rises.

 

[Rx7man]

Interesting thought. I'm not certain density is the only factor that effects a materials expansion rate when the temperature rises.

No, it certainly wouldn't be.. All I'm sayin' is I can notice it's a different aluminum alloy.. one that machines much easier and doesn't clog bits.. perhaps much less silicon? That could be part of the reason they can make it much cheaper... much faster machining and a cheaper alloy, though that doesn't explain all of it.

The different alloy could have a drastically different expansion rate

 

[weimedog]

No, it certainly wouldn't be.. All I'm sayin' is I can notice it's a different aluminum alloy.. one that machines much easier and doesn't clog bits.. perhaps much less silicon? That could be part of the reason they can make it much cheaper... much faster machining and a cheaper alloy, though that doesn't explain all of it.

The different alloy could have a drastically different expansion rate

possible...wonder if a hot plate and internal micrometer could quantify that. I thought silicon was more about gas formation & porosity, I would be interested in the magnesium & copper content..

 

[spike60]

Spike, you bring up a good point.. if a person is paying a shop to install a cylinder, the price of the cylinder (or difference in price) becomes a lesser part of the bill. If one of my saws fail, it's not a big deal, I have a half dozen more that will do just fine, and I do my own work..

And I left out the part about how a failure would actually be dealt with. Phrases like, "we'll stand behind it" and "It's covered under warranty" are easier to say than the procedures involved.

First we'll have the labor on the second rebuild. That's something that I'd have to toss in as the dealer. So, I lose that. I can get the cylinder covered by the supplier, but they're going to want to see it first. I have to call and get an RGA number before sending it back, at my expense. They are going to want to see how and why the cylinder failed. They won't cover a replacement until they are sure it was a defect in the cylinder and not the guy who installed it or the same problem that took out the original cylinder. And it better be clear cut, like a ring catching or obvious flaking of the chrome. (both of which I've experienced) So, the customer waits. And waits. For weeks. Phone calls. "Any word?" "What's up with my saw?" All that to save $100? Not in my world.

 

[Definitive Dave]

Damn I love a good spirited discussion!!!
threads like this could bring world peace and universal understanding one day

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I dunno 'bout all that, Dave. Whirled Peas..., maybe.

As you were, gang.

 

[arrowbullet]

Been a long time lurker and a lot of information has helped me that I have come across on this site and have a situation that may help other users and add to this discussion. I ordered a 660 crankcase from Huztl off of ebay to try on a build of mine because the OEM case is cracked. I had good luck with their parts in the past so I gave it a shot. Here is a picture of the flywheel side of the case that I received from Huztl.



I initiated a return on Ebay stating that there was a casting flaw and would like to return or exchange the item. and received this response from Huztl:

Hi David,

huztl sent you a message about your request:

"Dear Sir, Sorry for the problem. We have discussed your problem with our technical department, and we think this casting problem should not affect the normal using. There is a gasket between the crankcase and the gasket has a thickness which can help seal the crankcase. Actually the gasket is for this using and it can help seal the rough surface. We will not shirk our responsibility, so pls don't worry. We just hope you can kindly take a try. If the crankcase can seal well, we hope to make a refund of $10.00 to compensate you in this purchasing. Waiting for your response, Sir. Sorry for any inconvenience! Thank you for your patience and understanding! Have a nice day! Regards, Sara."

To reply now, see your request details.

If you have not agreed on a solution by Oct 21, 2015 , you can ask us to step in and help. If you and your seller need more time to work things out, your request will stay open until Nov 30, 2015.

I am going to tell them that I either want a new case or refund, it isn't acceptable to me to put the time and energy on something based off of "we think" it will seal and obviously a large portion of the sealing surface just isn't there. I will keep you updated on the response.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

I doubt that case will leak. Doesn't appear to be in a pressurized part of the case.

 

[arrowbullet]

I doubt the case will leak there as well, I really expected to receive what was represented on the auction and the pictures of the item did not have the casting problem on the listing. That is what the issue really is for me, I feel that the case half in question should not have passed the QC stage. When the case halves are assembled the defect looks much worse, looks like you may be able to check the bar oil. It would be something that I would not feel right about selling to someone else if I rebuilt it, which is not my intent.

 

[Definitive Dave]

clearly chipped before paint, not a problem with the mold, likely not cleaned properly or some such

how was your message to them worded, you quoted their response, I am curious what the other side of the conversation looked like
take a couple deep breaths and decide how much hassle it is worth to you, a second message to them saying you are unhappy with the part and want a refund will likely get you a refund without any more being done
If they don't respond that way Ebay has your back and a calmly worded message requesting a return "damaged, not as described" will also net you a refund
give the merchant a chance to do right, in their defense most of the guys buying direct from them on Ebay are homeowners shopping only by price for the cheapest part and Huztl is assuming that what they told you is something a basic first time saw fixer would not know
Dave

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Good luck to you, whichever way you go.