Huztl MS660

[tbohn]

And

As much as that would simplify things, I cant see it happening soon or ever with aftermarket parts.
We could have it the way we want it but not at the price we want.
There are factories willing to make us exactly what we want, with a lot of caveats.
I looked into having a chainsaw cylinder made to my specs, it is a long and expensive process - the cliff notes version is 1000 pcs minimum, about a year of lead time, two identical samples needed to model from, after all steps approved and test cylinders approved they still expect 5% of cylinders to be defective on my dime, @$60K upfront plus shipping when finished - italian pistons and finishing, chinese manufactured cylinders - I wasnt willing to have crappy cylinders made and the length of time to recover on 950 cylinders is just ridiculous for us.
To get the level of quality control we would really like....

And you would still have to perform quality control on your end with more parts out of spec. I work with QC guy that came from the bearing industry. He said his company switched from a German manufacturer to a Chinese manufacture for the rollers. They were able to get cheap enough pricing from China that they could perform there own quality checks and reject over 25% of what they received from China. This was a big company with plenty of purchasing clout.

 

[weimedog]

At least it sounds like you are making some money on your hobby. Sometimes I think I should post a craigslist that I will repair saws for no charge except parts but I don't want to take business away from people trying to make a living.

Actually on these..no, I don't and won't even try...its a hobby. I have used the AM covers, handles etc to repair crash damage. So maybe in that way I guess. For the business side, I do rebuilds & major repairs on Husqvarna's and that offsets the cost of the hobby some, kind of a niche for me. But that's all done with OEM parts or better than OEM bearings in some cases. Also the logs I sell, small tree jobs & logging jobs I do, and firewood I burn so we don't have to buy oil. But really haven't made a thing on the AM saws as that wasn't and won't be the intent. They were about testing repair parts because at that point in time I had NO source of Stihl parts (That has since changed), most interested in the plastic in the beginnig and it just kind of went from there...didn't expect much actually but they were fun, so I went off in a tangent for a bit. Every time I run one and don't run one of my built Husqvarna's I guess they save some wear and tear. But the problem is I like them! SO I use them. And tweak as the price points make that affordable without a big need to justify the expense. Last but not least made sure they work completely, and often use OEM parts to make that happen. I suspect I'm not the only one.

 

[Definitive Dave]

one thing potential sellers of non-OEM chainsaws should consider long and hard is legal issues
a few sticky wickets -
selling an item with OEM badges affixed, theft by deception, possibly mail fraud
trademark infringement
running afoul of state and federal laws regarding mandatory manufacturers safety testing
the chain brake issue and accompanying fixes seem really sketchy,
the brake serves two purposes - you can substitute turning the saw off for engaging the brake while moving with the saw but the activation during kickback can be a life or death situation
That is why they wont ship containers of "clonimal" saws to the US or other first world nations, they would simply be seized and destroyed as unsafe.

 

[weimedog]

one thing potential sellers of non-OEM chainsaws should consider long and hard is legal issues
a few sticky wickets -
selling an item with OEM badges affixed, theft by deception, possibly mail fraud
trademark infringement
running afoul of state and federal laws regarding mandatory manufacturers safety testing
the chain brake issue and accompanying fixes seem really sketchy,
the brake serves two purposes - you can substitute turning the saw off for engaging the brake while moving with the saw but the activation during kickback can be a life or death situation
That is why they wont ship containers of "clonimal" saws to the US or other first world nations, they would simply be seized and destroyed as unsafe.

Yet another reason the "resale" of complete AM saws as a business plan makes no sense.

 

[davhul]

Actually after thinking about this.....you would probably have been better off taking the route I did simply because I wasn't "bound" box of parts. You have the Stihl back ground and I had to reinvent that wheel. The one thing I see the "kits' have done for the later efforts is save a PILE of time for non Stihl types on the detail bits and pieces by defining what those parts are, even if then need being replaced. Took me a month or three and buying a bunch of redundant parts before I was able to put everything in a box and have that first "puzzle" saw. That first effort was really a saw and a half! ..I would have been better off starting from a Kit, while you probably would have been better off doing piecemeal as I did.

The parts in this box of parts should work together. If not why do we buy them. I see this isn't going anywhere so I'm out. The new smell has worn off

 

[Bedford T]

I understand people put these kits together for different reasons. Some for fun, some to learn the workings of a saw and some may even sell for profit. I put mine together to help a few people out and not for fun or learning.i don't want to have to reevaluate each saw I build because their different. I want to put them together and not have parts changing designs or have a lesser quality because the change. When the design changes then the problems could change if their intent wasn't to fix a existing problem. We all know of the problems and fixes through out this 1600+ post thread. Should we start another thread Because almost all of this would be irreverent when we now could have different versions. That's why I have held off on future orders til I know what to expect.

Thank you. that was the entire point. some of us have focused our attention on helping and being helped when you were building clones. That has changed the kit has changed. everything that has been said is now misleading if it is taken at face value. so this conversation will rectify that.

 

[Bedford T]

As much as that would simplify things, I cant see it happening soon or ever with aftermarket parts.
We could have it the way we want it but not at the price we want.
There are factories willing to make us exactly what we want, with a lot of caveats.
I looked into having a chainsaw cylinder made to my specs, it is a long and expensive process - the cliff notes version is 1000 pcs minimum, about a year of lead time, two identical samples needed to model from, after all steps approved and test cylinders approved they still expect 5% of cylinders to be defective on my dime, @$60K upfront plus shipping when finished - italian pistons and finishing, chinese manufactured cylinders - I wasnt willing to have crappy cylinders made and the length of time to recover on 950 cylinders is just ridiculous for us.
To get the level of quality control we would really like....

I would say you as as close to an aftermarket retail expert as we have in this thread. But I disagree with you in a small but important way. Farmertec already has a well developed cylinder that a lot of people are happy with the exception of the inside and at this point better their are better than a cross in that aspect, ( to get it out of the way...) the cross design is more performance. Now re read what i wrote and don't get all tangled up, follow me.

they have the cylinder in the palm of their hand, they take their worker give him a foredom with the right fittings and he/she spends 10 minutes on jug and it would also provide a process to check for quality control like broken fins etc. that is not going to cost them a lot of money. So disagree because, for very little, they could make a large group happy. the problem is they are stubborn.

This part rubs me the wrong way and Americans have just got lazy, farmertec send the crap out the door also and the buyers are too busy and over worked and don't want to argue or email 20 times and they re buy the stuff. Its a never ending cycle that they recognize and exploit. That is their quality control. You keep buying until they slip up and get it right.

i think they want our business we just need to hold their feet to the fire. In all honesty if they sent me a crappy kit they would get a not as described, substantially different and file with paypal and make them correct it. they are capable. i am not saying don't buy, just don't buy crap and accept it. i love my kit and i know it will last a very long time and the stuff i have seen if polar opposite. Sorry that was way to long.

 

[Bedford T]

We have seen guys with big leaks and pinched rings, all this is a bad sign

 

[HoosierS]

I hate to see all you fellers upset on here. I'm new to the group and only joined because I read this and I thought the concept of building a chainsaw from a box of pieces was awesome and probably the DIYest way of getting a cool saw. I've read this thread in it's entirety almost twice now, actually taking notes this last time. I've learned a lot, asked a lot of questions and got a lot of help from some smart people. I have no idea what my box of parts is gonna be like when It shows up but I'm pretty sure with what I've learned here and hopefully with some more help I can get it running great. Sorry for the long post, just got sentimental I guess. Reading 83 pages of this stuff kind of makes you feel like you know a bunch of folks.

 

[Ozhoo]

That's what this thread needs Seth. Someone to start one of these builds with no expectations of having a $1200 saw upon completion. Not looking at each part and comparing it to OEM, but asking yourself, will it work for what it's designed for. I for one look forward to your build.

 

[tbohn]

I

I don't remember the step in the base of the 56mm cylinders that I received from Huztl in Sept/Oct 2016. I will have to check when I get home this evening. The intake ports where the boot attaches were machined and they were not concentric.

The two 56mm cylinders I have do have step in the base. They do not have the wide flange on the base. My 56mms with and w/o base gasket have noticeably more kick-A than the 54mm. The 56mm without the base gasket has 0.023" squish and I can't pull it over well enough to get a compression reading. I have several tanks through it and it is going strong.

 

[davhul]

That's what this thread needs Seth. Someone to start one of these builds with no expectations of having a $1200 saw upon completion. Not looking at each part and comparing it to OEM, but asking yourself, will it work for what it's designed for. I for one look forward to your build.

That is exactly what we need is a saw that can be put together with the parts provided or know what parts we need on hand to complete the project. Not going into the build then wait weeks for parts that didn't work or was missing.

 

[Bedford T]

no ones actually upset. your missing the point. well actually it does not matter if you miss the point. hereforward they are not clones. see a clone is why we all rushed to buy them, a good saw that would last a long time and you could get replacement parts at your local stihl store. now you might need 30% oem to get a good runner, a lot of us got some good runners with only a few oem parts and the other parts were stout.

there are 83 great reasons to be disappointed.

 

[Bedford T]

i am complaining and pointing out why i am disappointed. i want everyone to enjoy what i and others got. it very well could end well. you gotta b*itch some

 

[davhul]

I'm not upset either. I just want to know what is need to finish before I start. And if I need to help someone with a problem I don't know what to tell them. And I can't go back to my AM saw to give them a answer. Or even grab a 1200$ saw off the shelf and give them a answer. Like this chain brake problem I have no idea. It appears a part can be replaced to fix it. Maybe. I have no idea it's NOT like my AM saw or OEM.

 

[Bedford T]

i said a couple times recently that i got some shocking news. it is also inclusive of a solution to this issue. i got the second to the last email today. i was told i needed to wait two weeks to hear from this last main guy who on vacation. i think they are pulling on my leg. you know how the dog gets that look in his eye when he hits your leg. i ain't waiting two weeks, the chinese don't go on two week vacations they have festivals the whole nation goes home. i will run with what i have and then wait on them soon.

 

[Bedford T]

I'm not upset either. I just want to know what is need to finish before I start. And if I need to help someone with a problem I don't know what to tell them or go back to my AM saw on the and give them a answer. Or even grab a 1200$ saw off the shelf and give them a answer. Like this chain brake problem I have no idea. It appears a part can be replaced to fix it. Maybe. I have no idea it's NOT like my AM saw or OEM.

no need to take it to the mat. but that is exactly the subject how do we continue to help when these problems are mounting. and they are farther from an original oem saw.

 

[tbohn]

I'm not upset either. I just want to know what is need to finish before I start. And if I need to help someone with a problem I don't know what to tell them. And I can't go back to my AM saw to give them a answer. Or even grab a 1200$ saw off the shelf and give them a answer. Like this chain brake problem I have no idea. It appears a part can be replaced to fix it. Maybe. I have no idea it's NOT like my AM saw or OEM.

Has anyone complained about the brake issue to Farmertec and received a response?

 

[Bedford T]

That's what this thread needs Seth. Someone to start one of these builds with no expectations of having a $1200 saw upon completion. Not looking at each part and comparing it to OEM, but asking yourself, will it work for what it's designed for. I for one look forward to your build.

what is required is a consistent saw kit. oem is the design model. the clone provides us with a safe design. they get by as DD said by providing the kits circumventing many oversights. but you did not need them as long as the stihl design is maintained.

we gotta make that clear to them

 

[Bedford T]

i must have not been clear. i am notifying them about it all. i have uncovered where the buck should stop