I had some fuel questions........

[1Alpha1]

......so I called three fully dedicated Stihl shops.

I know what has been bantered around on here, in regards to pump gas, vs. canned fuel, vs. aviation fuel. I also know how most of you feel about 40:1 being better than 50:1.

It's also been stated on here, that if you switch from pump gas to the canned stuff, you need to re-tune your equipment. Some even say to re-tune if you change mix ratios.



Of the three Stihl shops I called, the techs all said to use only the 50:1 ratio. They all agreed that 40:1 was too rich and would "gunk up" (their words, not mine) the equip. Two of the three said that av. gas was a waste and would serve no purpose, other than spending more money than you need to. One tech said that it would be okay, but played it down, and said that it could burn too hot, depending on the machine and the condition under which it was being used.

Two techs said no need to re-tune from pump gas to the canned stuff. One tech said absolutely, you need to re-tune. Two agreed that there is no need to re-tune from one mix ratio to the other. One begged to differ. One even suggested that re-tuning should be done several times a year.

All three said that pump gas, as long as it was mid-range (87 octane) was fine, even it if did have ethanol in it. They all said the newer OPE is designed to be run with ethanol, and as long as it was 10% or less, there would be no problems with engine components.

I think I covered all the questions / concerns that I had. What I came away with, was the fact that everyone seems to have their own opinion and tends to dismiss those of others. If I had any hopes of clearing the air by asking the questions from Stihl service techs, I was left pretty much in the same state of mind I started in.

Seems like there was another question of two I asked, but I can't remember right now.

Anyways, all I know is that I'm currently using TruFuel 40:1 and will continue to do so. I used ethanol-laced pump gas for many, many years prior to the canned stuff, and never had any problems or issues with it.

Sometimes, the more you think you want to know, doesn't always end up being that way.

 

[sgrizz]

40:1 for me now , I was using 50:1 before . Sunoco gtx (98 octane ethonal free) The can stuff is good also .

 

[Cope1024]

Stihl and others recommend 50:1 and 89 octane fuel, and that's what I run. All I can get is E10, so I use an additive (Fuel Medic) as well.

 

[1Alpha1]

Stihl and others recommend 50:1 and 89 octane fuel, and that's what I run. All I can get is E10, so I use an additive (Fuel Medic) as well.

I'm well aware of what Stihl recommends as far as a mix ratio goes.

My concern, is that they are more concerned about meeting EPA standards, than they are about machine longevity.

 

[Cope1024]

Years ago my dealer told me I could run a lower ratio, and the only issue would be more smoke. I've run 50:1 since 1999 with no issues.

 

[Franny K]

Are we talking about your four mix pole saw? Stihl Ultra is what you are supposed to use in those 4mix because it doesn't gunk stuff up, at least that is my understanding.

 

[1Alpha1]

Are we talking about your four mix pole saw? Stihl Ultra is what you are supposed to use in those 4mix because it doesn't gunk stuff up, at least that is my understanding.

Good thing you mentioned 4-Mix. That was one of the questions I did ask, but forgot to post about. All techs were on the same page in regards to the 4-Mix. It's the same as any other newer pre-mix machine. And, the other question I forgot to post about, was full-synth. oil used in the mixes.

I made sure that none of my questions had anything to with dino oil in them.

 

[Full Chisel]

I wouldn't expect a dealer to give advice that was outside of the manufacturers set guidelines...

 

[1Alpha1]

I wouldn't expect a dealer to give advice that was outside of the manufacturers set guidelines...

That's kind of funny. One of the techs even responded to my muffler mod question.

He did say and admit that a MM would in-fact increase performance.......AND fuel economy. Not sure that I've ever heard anyone on this forum say that.

 

[Mad Professor]

E10 has managed to trash all the carbs in my 4-cycle small equipment. Snot-like residue and rotting out the aluminum. Some of these carbs were never apart for 30-40 years before E10, and 1 year of E10 has required at least cleaning and has rotted out others. Only safe way I see to run it is to run, or drain the fuel system dry.

I have been using 100LL in all my two strokes since E10 and and have had no fuel problems at all. It stores mixed for over a year.

Recently a store started carrying 91 octane non-E10 and I may switch to that for cost, but will still have some 100LL mix handy in reserve. The canned pre-mix is way more expensive than mixed 100LL.

The one stihl dealer I trust for service has nothing but bad to say about E10, and he has been wrenching saws since before most had AV mounted engines.

 

[1Alpha1]

E10 has managed to trash all the carbs in my 4-cycle small equipment. Snot-like residue and rotting out the aluminum. Some of these carbs were never apart for 30-40 years before E10, and 1 year of E10 has required at least cleaning and has rotted out others. Only safe way I see to run it is to run, or drain the fuel system dry.

I have been using 100LL in all my two strokes since E10 and and have had no fuel problems at all. It stores mixed for over a year.

Recently a store started carrying 91 octane non-E10 and I may switch to that for cost, but will still have some 100LL mix handy in reserve. The canned pre-mix is way more expensive than mixed 100LL.

The one stihl dealer I trust for service has nothing but bad to say about E10, and he has been wrenching saws since before most had AV mounted engines.

That's what's so strange. Prior to ethanol in gas, and full-synth. oil, I used pump gas and dino oil for almost 50 yrs. or so, without a single problem or issue of any kind what-so-ever.

 

[spacemule]

I think you've got way too much time on your hands.

 

[sunfish]

Just proves none of this stuff matters at all...

 

[spacemule]

My concern, is that they are more concerned about meeting EPA standards, than they are about machine longevity.

Only problem is that Stihl recommended 50:1 before the EPA was in existence. So, if they recommend using that ratio before any emissions need, you can bet your arse that's what they think is best for the saw cause you know as well as I do they'd rather sell more oil than less. Or course, you can always listen to your shade tree engineer friends who spend more of their time drunk than they do designing saws. That's your prerogative. ;-)

 

[1Alpha1]

I think you've got way too much time on your hands.

Coming from you, that's precious.

 

[super3]

Of the three Stihl shops I called, the techs all said to use only the 50:1 ratio
Two techs said no need to re-tune from pump gas to the canned stuff.

and as long as it was 10% or less, there would be no problems with engine components..

That's what every shop you "call" should be telling you, they have no idea who you are. You could be someone from the EPA.

The two who told you no re tune is needed don't know what proper tune is then and have no ear for it.


No way to know what percentage you have unless you test the fuel when purchased. Advertised percentage cannot be trusted.
Few yrs back Cuttin Scott reported a rash of fried saws and started testing the fuel in them. Found anywhere from 7 to 23% ethanol content when they were all running advertised fuel of 10%

 

[1Alpha1]

Only problem is that Stihl recommended 50:1 before the EPA was in existence. So, if they recommend using that ratio before any emissions need, you can bet your arse that's what they think is best for the saw cause you know as well as I do they'd rather sell more oil than less. Or course, you can always listen to your shade tree engineer friends who spend more of their time drunk than they do designing saws. That's your prerogative. ;-)

Well Hell.....since you're the self-proclaimed know-it-all, I should have just sent you a PM and asked you my questions. You could have saved me some of my time that I have so much of.

Now I know better.

 

[1Alpha1]

That's what every shop you "call" should be telling you, they have no idea who you are. You could be someone from the EPA.

No way to know what percentage you have unless you test the fuel when purchased. Advertised percentage cannot be trusted.
Few yrs back Cuttin Scott reported a rash of fried saws and started testing the fuel in them. Found anywhere from 7 to 23% ethanol content when they were all running advertised fuel of 10%

What you said might be true, but that's a whole other subject / topic.

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

One of the Stih chainsawl manuals I looked at said running premium 92 with 10% ethanol is ok. One of the Stihl dealers near me knows about ethanol laced fuel and they strongly recommend to never use it. I called all the different brand dealers in my area and all but two told me that 10% ethanol fuel is ok to run. But they all said they will only run clear premium in their equipment.
Carbs are basically the bread and butter of the power equipment service and repair world since the introduction of ethanol into gasoline.
In my experience, 10% ethanol is bad and should be avoided. It isn't only about the water in the ethanol that separates and starts rust, the ethanol itself eats rubber that gasoline won't hurt. I've seen ethanol tolerant carb kits, but only the pump diaphragm is the ethanol tolerant piece in the kit.
It's also a fact that there have been reports of gas stations tested to have higher than 10% ethanol at their pumps.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

If it was 10% that would be one thing, but it aint'. Especially in the corn belt.