Identify Orange tree

[saintsfan]

I have been given two citrus trees recently that were presented (and tagged) as Owari satsuma trees. I am thinking that one of these is an Orange tree because it has thorns about an inch long on the trunk. They are young trees, only about three feet tall and the thorny one has lots of foilage but most is yellowing (and was when I planted 2 weeks ago). The top branch foilage looks ok, it's nice and green. Most of the yellow leaves are on sucker leaves springing up from the roots that should have probably been cut last year but some are on the main plant as well. The area is not as well draining as it could be but since planting we haven't had rain so should be ok for now. I plan to raise them up about 6-8 inches. Also, the orange tree never grew any fruit in it's one year known history.

The second tree, which I suggest is actually an Owari satsuma, is not faring as well as it only has a handfull of leaves when I got it. The leaves are mostly green but it only has about 10-20 leaves where the other tree has a mutitude. The satsuma produced about 20 silver dollar size fruit which were hard as a rock and the plant dropped all of it's leaves afterwards.

I put out some root stimulator when planting both of these trees but haven't done anything else except cover them from the recent frost. I would like to also note that last year these trees didn't grow much but they were watered automatically every day.

How can I tell what the thorned tree is?
Do I need to care for these trees differently if not the same type of tree?
Assuming lifting is needed in less than perfectly drained soil, should 6-8inches be enough? I live in Zone 2- B.R., Louisiana
How and when should I fertilize?
Are these trees apropriate for my zone?
Thanks in advance for the advice,
Jim

 

[LightningLoader]

You've got alot of stuff going on here, but I'll try to answer it all as best I can.

1. Yellow leaves on thorny tree:
The leaves at the bottom of your thorny tree may be yellow because the rootstock is sprouting and growing a different kind of leaves. Cut off these sprouts and consider loosley wrapping foil around the base to block out light till your trees get a little bigger. As for the leaves on the rest of the tree, you either have a deficiency or a disease. May need more Iron, manganese, or magnesium. Orange trees also love nitrogen, and it will help too.

2. What is your thorny tree:
Couldn't tell you without a picture to get some idea of scale, color, and leafe size. Lemons are thorny alot of times, especially meyers lemons.

3. Your foliage problems on the Satsuma:
Don't know what to tell you about this one. Trees don't usually just defoliate out of nowhere. The sparse leaves say that there may be some sort of root problems to me.

4. Small hard fruit on Satsuma:
Couple different things could've happened here. You could have harvested too late and the fruit dried out, but it seems unlikely. Satsuma is a tangerine and should be pretty soft and easy to peel, and about the size of a woman's fist. You may be able to solve the size problem with a little potassium.

As for GENERAL CARE, you can treat both trees the same. I think you are watering too much though. Citrus shouldn't need water more than 2 times a week. General rule of thumb on fertilizing citrus is to do it in the cooler months, but not when there is danger of frost. I don't know what that zone is, but your goal in fertilizing should be to do it during times when you won't have tender new sprouts eaten by pests, or burned by frost. Summer is prime pest time by the way. Use a high nitrogen, and high potassium fertilizer for citrus.

Questions for you:
Are these trees in full sun?
Are you herbiciding below the trees to keep weeds down?

 

[saintsfan]

Hmm, I posted a reply yesterday but its not here! Oh well, now I have pictures.
I have looked again at these trees and found damage not noticed before. Half eaten leaves, a cotton like nest inside a curled up leaf, some spots on leaves, and leaves curling somewhat. I must admit I am not sure how long the trees have been this way but don't think they were in that condition when planted a few weeks ago. Assuming some bug is still damaging the trees, what can I do?

Yes, trees are in full sun and blocked from north winds too.
No I haven't been sprayin roundup but they are freshly planted. Thanks for the tip, I will do that this summer when grass comes back.

The reference to my plant heartiness zone was incorrect, I am in zone 8.

 

[LightningLoader]

First suggestion is to fertilize. This should fix the yellowing.

You also do need to cut off the place where your rootstock has sprouted on the thorny plant.

The pests that I can see on your plant now aren't too much of a big deal. I asked my husband the citrus expert what could defoliate a tree like you mentioned, and he said that his first suspicion would be a bad white fly infestation. The recommendation for treatment of almost all citrus pests is to apply an oilspray. You should be able to get it at your local garden supply or hardware store. Now's a good time to spray too, so do it soon. You may want to spray during the cooler parts of the day in case the tree could get burned.

I still can't tell what kind of plant you have there, but the good news is that they're probibly going to be ok.

 

[LightningLoader]

looked back at your pictures again. Is it maybe just the rootstock that's sprouting with the thorns? You may actually have 2 satsumas like you thought originally?

 

[LightningLoader]

Sorry to make a million posts, but keep noticing new stuff. I can't see the line where the rootstock was grafted to the plant. I kept thinking that it just looked weird for the sucker sprout to be coming up out of the ground like that instead of off the trunk. Can you see the graft line on your tree? It's supposed to be above ground.

 

[saintsfan]

Just droppin in to update. The thorny tree is doing well. read your comments below and I think you are right. I have seen a graft line on only one side of tree but have noticed one side is thorned and the other is not. Is it possible that the grafted unthorned side is satsuma and the thorned side is from an orange tree root ball. No graft line visible on the thorned side. Can I grow both of them together like that? Is that why it didn't produce last year?
Should I cut off the thorny part?

The other satsuma I'm sure is quite dead. No leaves remain now and I plan to replace it next month. It's not in a spot that drains too well so the replacement will be elevated more.

I installed a french drain around the other to pump water out, it seems to work quite well.
Thanks for your help,
Jim