Not a chance. China has LOTS of cheap labor, but those folks cook a lot of rice...on wood fires. I don't see China ever exporting any kind of wood as a raw material or fuel.
Is firewood made out of gold here?
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Not a chance. China has LOTS of cheap labor, but those folks cook a lot of rice...on wood fires. I don't see China ever exporting any kind of wood as a raw material or fuel.
Fred Wright
Addicted to ArboristSite
CL is an online camel trading lot. Buyers want 10 cents on the dollar, sellers want a 100% markup. 
When we were kids, neighbors paid us to mow lawns, rake leaves and so forth. That was then. Now, everyone is an entrepreneur. Ya don't pay a kid to rake your leaves, ya offer mulch and compost to anyone who is willing to do it for you and pay you for it. Same goes for hoss manure... I've seen CL ads promoting it as natural organic fertilizer. Muck out the hoss stalls yourself and we'll give you a discount.
Tom Sawyer passing off the fence painting comes to mind.
True, many Harry Homeowners don't really know what firewood is, let alone what it's worth. They think a fallen or unwanted yard tree is an opportunity for profit... if they can find someone to clean it up and pay for the privilege at the same time.
This misguided mentality irritates me to no end. These are the same people who try to haggle with every vendor and service provider who comes along. They want more but they don't want to pay any more for it.
When we were kids, neighbors paid us to mow lawns, rake leaves and so forth. That was then. Now, everyone is an entrepreneur. Ya don't pay a kid to rake your leaves, ya offer mulch and compost to anyone who is willing to do it for you and pay you for it. Same goes for hoss manure... I've seen CL ads promoting it as natural organic fertilizer. Muck out the hoss stalls yourself and we'll give you a discount.
Tom Sawyer passing off the fence painting comes to mind.
True, many Harry Homeowners don't really know what firewood is, let alone what it's worth. They think a fallen or unwanted yard tree is an opportunity for profit... if they can find someone to clean it up and pay for the privilege at the same time.
This misguided mentality irritates me to no end. These are the same people who try to haggle with every vendor and service provider who comes along. They want more but they don't want to pay any more for it.
zogger
Tree Freak
CL is an online camel trading lot. Buyers want 10 cents on the dollar, sellers want a 100% markup.
When we were kids, neighbors paid us to mow lawns, rake leaves and so forth. That was then. Now, everyone is an entrepreneur. Ya don't pay a kid to rake your leaves, ya offer mulch and compost to anyone who is willing to do it for you and pay you for it. Same goes for hoss manure... I've seen CL ads promoting it as natural organic fertilizer. Muck out the hoss stalls yourself and we'll give you a discount.
Tom Sawyer passing off the fence painting comes to mind.
True, many Harry Homeowners don't really know what firewood is, let alone what it's worth. They think a fallen or unwanted yard tree is an opportunity for profit... if they can find someone to clean it up and pay for the privilege at the same time.
This misguided mentality irritates me to no end. These are the same people who try to haggle with every vendor and service provider who comes along. They want more but they don't want to pay any more for it.
Follow ups to those CL outragous ads would be interesting, to see what they finally did with their million dollar backyard black walnut or valuable aerial firewood worth just thou$ands over the house.
I think most of them know full well what they are posting for an ad is complete crap, but, free ad, "whuttheheck, someone might bite"!
Rearden
ArboristSite Operative
You guys will appreciate this I'm sure. I post this link regularly in response to CL knuckleheads, or just send it direct as a response to their idiocy.
A Highly Valuable Black Walnut Tree - YouTube
walnut log deal - YouTube
Yet more proof that Eugenics is an idea whose time has come.
A Highly Valuable Black Walnut Tree - YouTube
walnut log deal - YouTube
Yet more proof that Eugenics is an idea whose time has come.
Truck vs. train
The train is the lowest cost per ton as far as the fuel is concerned. Problem is that there is a union involved. Then it is interstate transportation that means there is a federal government involved.... need I say more? Call them. find out what a box car would cost to haul wood. :msp_scared:
equal unlikely scenario is to obtain a couple of trailers and get them loaded up. Then find independent drivers with trucks who might be running empty, and gradually work the trailers at the lowest possible cost per mile. No hurry, but can we get it there in 6 months?
The train is the lowest cost per ton as far as the fuel is concerned. Problem is that there is a union involved. Then it is interstate transportation that means there is a federal government involved.... need I say more? Call them. find out what a box car would cost to haul wood. :msp_scared:
equal unlikely scenario is to obtain a couple of trailers and get them loaded up. Then find independent drivers with trucks who might be running empty, and gradually work the trailers at the lowest possible cost per mile. No hurry, but can we get it there in 6 months?
howellhandmade
Addicted to ArboristSite
I blame that black walnut. People listen to other people, whose friend's brother-in-law's chiropractor's girlfriend sold a tree in her yard for $40,000. Not knowing a black walnut from a black mamba, or anything else, really, some people believe the story, and make a logical leap of the Grand Canyon, reasoning that is SOME tree SOMEWHERE was worth $40K, then THIS tree HERE has got to be worth SOMETHING.
A few years back I was taking down a goony black locust in my front yard and had a neighbor lady stop to tell me what a fool I was to be cutting it up for firewood. Why, her friend's brother-in-law's chiropractor's girlfriend . . . I told her that whatever she had heard, this wasn't that kind of tree. Not only was it NOT THAT KIND OF TREE (species, size, or quality), but I'd already wrecked two chains on nails and screws, and the only way to get the trunk out of my yard in one piece was with a helicopter. Any idea what it costs to rent a Sky Crane? She simply would not listen and understand; she had taken time out of her busy day of watching Dr. Phil to let me know that I was squandering my kid's college education, and would not be denied. Looks kind of grim for the human race sometimes.
A few years back I was taking down a goony black locust in my front yard and had a neighbor lady stop to tell me what a fool I was to be cutting it up for firewood. Why, her friend's brother-in-law's chiropractor's girlfriend . . . I told her that whatever she had heard, this wasn't that kind of tree. Not only was it NOT THAT KIND OF TREE (species, size, or quality), but I'd already wrecked two chains on nails and screws, and the only way to get the trunk out of my yard in one piece was with a helicopter. Any idea what it costs to rent a Sky Crane? She simply would not listen and understand; she had taken time out of her busy day of watching Dr. Phil to let me know that I was squandering my kid's college education, and would not be denied. Looks kind of grim for the human race sometimes.
Rearden
ArboristSite Operative
What the Stig said. I had a "caring/knowing citizen" try and move my chicken tractor into the shade one day, 'cuz she thought she knew something (the portable pen has a radiant barrier and iso-foam board insulating the roofs, as well as a built in variable speed fan with thermostatic control... making it the most comfortable place on our property). Problem was, the chickens have to be in the section with the wire floor when moving it or you can run over the birds... which she did, whereupon she then fled and called animal control on me - leaving two of my hens half crushed and pinned to the ground for almost an hour when I came by to check on them.. Fortunately I had installed a recording surveillance system all over our property, so I had a video of what went down. She managed to cripple two birds, and I had to waste half a day educating a County gov't employee, but the "Born Again" maroon from up the street still thinks she's doing gawd's work, and I'm runnin' Aushwitz for chickens. I even burned her a copy of her vandalism and she refused to admit that she'd done anything at all, much less been responsible for injuring two of my birds. The fact that she still lives is a testament to my self control, and dislike of prison food. I also bought an electric fence to string inside of our split rail, but we finally decided that we gotta move 'cuz, the stupid is creepin' in from all sides at too fast a rate to resist. We're just bein' over run by retarded zombies, and it still ain't legal to shoot 'em.
Now I'm not sayin' that I would ever trust our gov't to do it, but their are people on this planet that should just be set adrift on an iceberg and forgotten, and I'm votin' little Miss Jesus loves me into the first boat... but she certainly wouldn't be alone.
Gettin' back to the O.P., we also have a devil of a time with a variety of bark beetles in our State, and we ourselves have lost several nice old oaks to them just in the last two years. Nobody pays any attention here to where their wood is coming from, as long as it's cheap, and they don't have to touch it. The beetles "just appeared" here one day as if landed by aliens, but the retards buyin' wood from the next State over don't seem to be able to grasp the part that they play in this. It's pretty sad, and sometimes quite maddening. Most everything that I've seen neighbors buy, they claim was seasoned. I'll bang a few sticks of mine and theirs to let 'em hear the difference, and even bring my moisture meter over to show them the empirical data, but it doesn't matter. Somebody took their money, and now they have to convince themselves that they got a great deal, or admit that they're idiots. They also get shorted constantly. One maroon paid $200 for a cord of split, seasoned oak, delivered and stacked. I won't bother repeating the rationalizations that he offered, but what he got was maybe two thirds of a cord of 15" logs dumped on the driveway. Most was unsplit 6" and under that was alive and green with leaves a few weeks ago, and oak was definitely one species that was not present... but this is the same liar/thief that he'd been getting his wood from for the last four or five years. Then he had a rotten sycamore come down in a storm, and it was layin' across his back deck, so I offered to help him cut it up. I swear, he "offered" to let me have this marvelous soggy crap, if I would get rid of the three truck loads of brush for him. I just picked up my saws and went home.
Got another idiot neighbor who knows I heat with nothing but wood, and his house is about the same size, so he asks me all kind of questions about wood stoves and inserts (after spending $3k on oil the year before), how much wood I burn, btu's per cord - the whole nine yards. I recommend a nice deal on a lightly used Vermont Castings stove a friend was selling 'cuz he was moving. Instead, he ends up with an old leaky plate steel stove that probably isn't even safe out doors, but I'm hopin' the coroner tells us it was carbon monoxide one day soon. Then, 'cuz I told him that in a mild winter - we burned about two cords, he decided to buy one cord. It was predictably unseasoned (which I showed him with the moisture meter) but he's also "Born Again", AND an engineer - so there's no way of tellin' him anything. He shopped far and wide to get the very best deal that he could, finally settling on some Sanford & Son lookin' character from three counties away. As expected, mid-winter he's out'a wood... AND, after stealing wood off of my carport for two weeks, he finally text messages me, asking if he can borrow some??? This POS still owes me a $1,000 deductible for flipping an excavator that I lent him several years ago... but he's accepted Jesus Christ as his savior, so there's no communicating with him, he exists in a state of completely oblivious grace. I walk next door and, after explaining how much I detest ball-less jerks that would text that sort of request, repeat the ant and grasshopper fable for him (which flies right over his head at the speed of light) and then explain that I will sell him wood, but that I am not in the habit of "lending" stuff that will be consumed and hence become irretrievable. He then went back to stealing til I moved a pair of cameras to watch his house and what was left of that particular wood pile. Ever since then, my "Good Christian" neighbor won't even acknowledge my existence, which is my own blessing I suppose. My local experience with Christians has been, shall we say, disappointing? Any wonder I run anytime somebody mentions anything about their gawd or religion? I don't know if it's religion that's attractin' the idiots, or does it turn 'em into said same once they join? I just know I gotta get out'a here.
Whatever the cause, we've been gettin' some pretty violent summer storms the last few years, so there's always enough tree clean up to keep us buried in wood. Even though I did used to be in the firewood biz years ago, I am not a pro, and I don't generally sell anything that I cut. Most times I'm just tryin' to help a neighbor, or I just feel like cuttin' wood and runnin' my saws (I know... it's some kind'a mental disorder - which is why I hang out here now). When I am solicited, or an insurance company is involved, I'll typically charge folks $200-$300 for less than a day's work and a trip to the dump to get rid of the brush if there's some reasonable firewood involved and it's close to home. I don't like takin' meat off of another guys plate, so I'm not out there lookin' for the work, I just kind'a take what falls into my lap. It pays for my consumables and buys a few chains and bars each year, but if I had to deal with these knuckleheads every day for a living, I would definitely be a serial killer by now.
Now I'm not sayin' that I would ever trust our gov't to do it, but their are people on this planet that should just be set adrift on an iceberg and forgotten, and I'm votin' little Miss Jesus loves me into the first boat... but she certainly wouldn't be alone.
Gettin' back to the O.P., we also have a devil of a time with a variety of bark beetles in our State, and we ourselves have lost several nice old oaks to them just in the last two years. Nobody pays any attention here to where their wood is coming from, as long as it's cheap, and they don't have to touch it. The beetles "just appeared" here one day as if landed by aliens, but the retards buyin' wood from the next State over don't seem to be able to grasp the part that they play in this. It's pretty sad, and sometimes quite maddening. Most everything that I've seen neighbors buy, they claim was seasoned. I'll bang a few sticks of mine and theirs to let 'em hear the difference, and even bring my moisture meter over to show them the empirical data, but it doesn't matter. Somebody took their money, and now they have to convince themselves that they got a great deal, or admit that they're idiots. They also get shorted constantly. One maroon paid $200 for a cord of split, seasoned oak, delivered and stacked. I won't bother repeating the rationalizations that he offered, but what he got was maybe two thirds of a cord of 15" logs dumped on the driveway. Most was unsplit 6" and under that was alive and green with leaves a few weeks ago, and oak was definitely one species that was not present... but this is the same liar/thief that he'd been getting his wood from for the last four or five years. Then he had a rotten sycamore come down in a storm, and it was layin' across his back deck, so I offered to help him cut it up. I swear, he "offered" to let me have this marvelous soggy crap, if I would get rid of the three truck loads of brush for him. I just picked up my saws and went home.
Got another idiot neighbor who knows I heat with nothing but wood, and his house is about the same size, so he asks me all kind of questions about wood stoves and inserts (after spending $3k on oil the year before), how much wood I burn, btu's per cord - the whole nine yards. I recommend a nice deal on a lightly used Vermont Castings stove a friend was selling 'cuz he was moving. Instead, he ends up with an old leaky plate steel stove that probably isn't even safe out doors, but I'm hopin' the coroner tells us it was carbon monoxide one day soon. Then, 'cuz I told him that in a mild winter - we burned about two cords, he decided to buy one cord. It was predictably unseasoned (which I showed him with the moisture meter) but he's also "Born Again", AND an engineer - so there's no way of tellin' him anything. He shopped far and wide to get the very best deal that he could, finally settling on some Sanford & Son lookin' character from three counties away. As expected, mid-winter he's out'a wood... AND, after stealing wood off of my carport for two weeks, he finally text messages me, asking if he can borrow some??? This POS still owes me a $1,000 deductible for flipping an excavator that I lent him several years ago... but he's accepted Jesus Christ as his savior, so there's no communicating with him, he exists in a state of completely oblivious grace. I walk next door and, after explaining how much I detest ball-less jerks that would text that sort of request, repeat the ant and grasshopper fable for him (which flies right over his head at the speed of light) and then explain that I will sell him wood, but that I am not in the habit of "lending" stuff that will be consumed and hence become irretrievable. He then went back to stealing til I moved a pair of cameras to watch his house and what was left of that particular wood pile. Ever since then, my "Good Christian" neighbor won't even acknowledge my existence, which is my own blessing I suppose. My local experience with Christians has been, shall we say, disappointing? Any wonder I run anytime somebody mentions anything about their gawd or religion? I don't know if it's religion that's attractin' the idiots, or does it turn 'em into said same once they join? I just know I gotta get out'a here.
Whatever the cause, we've been gettin' some pretty violent summer storms the last few years, so there's always enough tree clean up to keep us buried in wood. Even though I did used to be in the firewood biz years ago, I am not a pro, and I don't generally sell anything that I cut. Most times I'm just tryin' to help a neighbor, or I just feel like cuttin' wood and runnin' my saws (I know... it's some kind'a mental disorder - which is why I hang out here now). When I am solicited, or an insurance company is involved, I'll typically charge folks $200-$300 for less than a day's work and a trip to the dump to get rid of the brush if there's some reasonable firewood involved and it's close to home. I don't like takin' meat off of another guys plate, so I'm not out there lookin' for the work, I just kind'a take what falls into my lap. It pays for my consumables and buys a few chains and bars each year, but if I had to deal with these knuckleheads every day for a living, I would definitely be a serial killer by now.
ft. churchill
Addicted to ArboristSite
Cheap pine firewood is 200 + delivery a full cord. Almond goes for 380 a cord. Mixed hardwoods (oak, almond and walnut) 350. Nevada prices are high.:msp_scared:
I got a real short solution to that problem. Police report.
Granted, it's probably far too late now, but a complaint against her for trespassing would have been very satisfying, and would have established a precedent for keeping the busybody out of your yard.
Furthermore, you had a lot of proof, so even a judge might have gotten involved. Not many things as satisfying as getting a judge to tell some interfering numbskull to stay off your property, and by the way...That is a misdemeanor that you are guilty of, and here is your fine. Call your Probation officer by next week, here is who you report to. If you ever come withing XXX feet of that place again, it will be a violation of your probation.
Then again, that good a result from a police complaint is usually just a fantasy. You can't really enjoy the fantasy unless you occasionally buy in...Kinda like a lottery ticket.
mga
wandering
lol...yep. heard all the black walnut stories myself.
a couple years ago i dropped a few of them...really huge...and for the heck of it, put an ad on craigslist...tried to sell a 2 foot by 8 foot section for 150....no one bit, so, i cut it up into fire wood. pretty wood when you split it open, but it really doesn't burn that well alone.
so, i'm not impressed with black walnut. now i just tell people if they think it's worth that million dollars, go sell it. (they always call back and beg to have it removed)
zogger
Tree Freak
Rearden...that's some sad and funny stuff at the same time!
Hope you can find a better place. I had a net friend some years ago just give up and move to another country, South American country where his wife was from. Last I knew he hasn't moved back so I guess it worked out OK for him.
Hope you can find a better place. I had a net friend some years ago just give up and move to another country, South American country where his wife was from. Last I knew he hasn't moved back so I guess it worked out OK for him.
Rearden
ArboristSite Operative
Generally I do at least attempt to use the "system" as it was intended, but our current regime is not the least bit interested in providing protections of personal property... too Libertarian for them I guess.
I did contact the police and their immediate response was to tell me that since my property was not specifically POSTED NO TRESPASSING, and known to them as such (?), that they would only stop by and warn her not to do it again. Any issues relating to damage or injury to my birds would have to be addressed through the civil courts (at least three days out'a my life to file, serve her, go to trial, probably have her postpone once or twice - making it a five or six day ordeal, have to prove to a preponderance of the evidence that I experienced some loss - and then establish a monetary value for that loss, MAYBE get a judgement in my favor, file a request for ANOTHER hearing to execute said judgement, go back in front of the judge yet again... and then I have to actually start the process all over again to execute a lien if she chooses to ignore the judgement - so it's back to requesting another hearing for contempt - if the judge feels like hearing it at all, now it's been two weeks out'a my life... right before I snap and climb a water tower with a high powered rifle)... been there done that, have the psychological scars and sclerotic liver to prove it. Mind you, the presence of NO TRESPASSING signs was still not enough to motivate the police to stop by (I'm a whole mile and a half from their far too distant precinct, and they are so shorthanded that only three at a time can get together at the Dunkin' Donuts between me and them for their daily free coffee clutch). Best of all, our taxes and fees to live in this model of efficiency have gone up something like 15% so far, with more on the horizon if we don't legalize full blown table game Vegas style gambling casinos and... 'scuze me while my head explodes.
So I flagged her down the day that I presented her with the DVD of her transgressions, warned her that if she ever climbed my fence to trespass again, that she should watch out for the mega joule high tension wires on the inside (which weren't actually installed). I'm not makin' this up, but a few days after her denial, I got a visit from a Zoning Enforcement official who wanted to know more about my electric fence. It just gets better and better from there, but suffice it to say that I made no friends with the local gov't that day (after calling and ranting at my Councilman, then my State Delegates, and the County Executive's office). I had to appear in their offices with a copy of my plat and deed to prove that I had at least the acre required to keep chickens here, and that I had a permit for the 20 year old fence, oh and to be warned that even though all of my firewood is stacked and racked the required 18" off of the ground, that I had better not slip up, and that any rats sighted in the neighborhood were defacto my doing (would of course have nothing to do with the 15 "pet" cats that are left to roam free and whose owners leave cat food on their back porch all night long... but who am I to suggest logic when entertaining the power drunk decrees of a lunatic bureaucrat?).
Yeah... I'm actually a pretty fair minded "live and let live" kind'a guy normally, but the times they are a changin', and I just don't belong to them any longer. Property crimes are up over 20% over the last five years in this area (which corresponds coincidentally with the 20% increase in the establishment of Section 8 housing and "Move to Opportunity" vouchers issued therein... but we've been assured that it's all completely unrelated). We did get speed cameras and red light cameras though, 'cuz all of the real criminals are already caught I suppose, and extorting more "revenue" out'a the last few taxpayers with anything to take is the last desperate act of a failed gov't.
We actually live in an upper middle class neighborhood right on the edge where the suburbs turn to farm land - I'm not talkin' urban setting here. Houses around us are still at east $350K and up with at least an acre of ground. Within a one month period this past December, we had 14 1st degree burglaries within a four block radius, and they didn't stop til the thieves moved on to the adjoining neighborhood. I caught a crew of wonderful diversity (White guy drivin', two Black guys in the back seat, and a Latino ridin' shotgun) on my camera system a while back. They cruise down the street with lights out and bail at each car and driveway. They run up and check to see who's locked up and alarmed (which we all were this particular eve), and then move on to the next. My old camera didn't have the resolution to catch the tag as it passed under the street light (a problem since rectified), so when I gave a copy of that DVD to the police, they asked me what was stolen and asked if I wanted to file a report. I explained that we were lucky that night, but that five others on the block were not. The corporal behind the bullet proof glass took the DVD from me and told me to have a nice day. No one was ever arrested, and the multi-cultural gang has been back twice since then, but I don't even bother saving it anymore, we're done. Movin' to the Eastern Shore is a reasonable stop gap til I can find my island with a cave.
“We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.” - Ayn Rand (attributed to her sometime back in the late 40's, but I'd say we are finally there)
Rearden
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks brother. We're hopeful that the land of the inbred will actually be an upgrade.
Shouldn't say that, but I lived down there ages ago and had a gas station and some other businesses there. Used to be pretty nice - great huntin', fishin' and crabbin', but now that the gov't has cleaned up the Bay (all of their really big campaign contributors are also the really big polluters, so nothing much has actually changed for the better) there's nothing in there that I would chance eating. We started raising our own food fish, along with the gardens, poultry et al., so I'm hoping to re-establish our aquaculture experiment down there, and hopefully keep the gov't out'a my business so we can live in peace. Third World may be next... that includes Canada right?
D&B Mack
Sawin Wit It!
Nobody is allowed to make money except for the "other guy". If you are selling wood, it is too expensive. If you are looking for logs for firewood, it is worth gold as said.
Firewooding is like the Pawn Shop. Hang out in a pawn shop for a while and you will see the likeness. Everyone that comes in wants retail price for their item. Everyone who is buying is assuming the pawn shop is making record profits and they are too expensive.
Firewooding is like the Pawn Shop. Hang out in a pawn shop for a while and you will see the likeness. Everyone that comes in wants retail price for their item. Everyone who is buying is assuming the pawn shop is making record profits and they are too expensive.
Rearden
ArboristSite Operative
As mentioned I was in the biz about 30 years ago, and we basically bought or cut our own trailers of oak and dumped them onto a lot behind the gas station that I owned back then. I would process it whenever we weren't busy up front and we probably sold delivered about 50 cords a year. We were on Maryland's Eastern Shore and sold most everything through ads in the Annapolis paper on the "Western Shore" (Annapolis having a great many upper-middle class homes back then - before the blight). Way back then we were getting $150+ per cord for seasoned oak, split stacked/delivered. What I don't get is how and why firewood is now more popular than ever, and yet it has not seen the inflation that oil, gas, and everything else has experienced - as the Fed prints ever more and more scrip. I don't get it. Obviously folks with downed trees in their yards feel that even crappy half rotted punk is worth $1,700 a Troy ounce, but I truly can't grasp why the retail end is still relatively speaking - price depressed..
Not much has changed here except that the State is a WHOLE lot pickier about what you can cut and where, even with one of their screwy permits. Also, with the implementation of the Feral "Critical Areas" regulations, anything within 1,000' of any body of water is protected and potentially off limits. Look at a map of Maryland sometime and you'll get a feel for just how many hundreds of thousands of acres that puts under their control. Whether you're cutting on private land or not, they control the forests. Many sources of free wood (we used to have State Roads crews drop their timber cuts on our lot whenever they were in the area - but now they haul it to the land fill) have evaporated, and the new growth hasn't exactly replaced what has been cut. Thanks to the Dept. of Agriculture's "Go Big or Get the Hell Out" attitude toward corporate farming, just about everything that could be cleared and tilled, to take advantage of the corporate farm/gov't subsidies, has been. Long story longer, there's less available wood to cut if anything, and with the spiraling inflation (that's just our imaginations), and increasing demand, basic market economics dictates that we should be seeing a similar increase in firewood prices. The dollar's worth less and less every day, so how come the same cord of wood isn't fetchin' more?
Adding to that we've got inflation effecting all other aspects of the business: equipment, transportation, labor, taxes, insurance, permits, tolls, fees, and lawsuits have all at least tripled since I was last involved, and being able to buy a faster cheaper I-Fud doesn't balance that equation out (as the N.Y. Fed knucklehead, Mr. Dudley, recently tried to claim). So what gives? Other than the fact that people doing the significant work of harvesting and processing said wood are obviously working harder for a lot less, nothing else seems to be working in their favor. I fully realize that we're all in a hand basket heading south, but this little economic anomaly has perplexed me for some time now.
The incentive for my old arse to go back to heating with wood struck a few years back when we realized after a particularly harsh winter, that we couldn't justify spending $3,000 a year for oil, when the same heat was available from five or six hundred bucks worth of wood. All of the other timber commodities have also gone berserk, 'cuz I know that we weren't paying more than maybe $.75 for a 2x4 back then, and they're near $4 today... for crappier wood.
Must be something horribly obvious that I'm missin' here, 'cuz I truly don't get it. Is this all due to increased competition?
Not much has changed here except that the State is a WHOLE lot pickier about what you can cut and where, even with one of their screwy permits. Also, with the implementation of the Feral "Critical Areas" regulations, anything within 1,000' of any body of water is protected and potentially off limits. Look at a map of Maryland sometime and you'll get a feel for just how many hundreds of thousands of acres that puts under their control. Whether you're cutting on private land or not, they control the forests. Many sources of free wood (we used to have State Roads crews drop their timber cuts on our lot whenever they were in the area - but now they haul it to the land fill) have evaporated, and the new growth hasn't exactly replaced what has been cut. Thanks to the Dept. of Agriculture's "Go Big or Get the Hell Out" attitude toward corporate farming, just about everything that could be cleared and tilled, to take advantage of the corporate farm/gov't subsidies, has been. Long story longer, there's less available wood to cut if anything, and with the spiraling inflation (that's just our imaginations), and increasing demand, basic market economics dictates that we should be seeing a similar increase in firewood prices. The dollar's worth less and less every day, so how come the same cord of wood isn't fetchin' more?
Adding to that we've got inflation effecting all other aspects of the business: equipment, transportation, labor, taxes, insurance, permits, tolls, fees, and lawsuits have all at least tripled since I was last involved, and being able to buy a faster cheaper I-Fud doesn't balance that equation out (as the N.Y. Fed knucklehead, Mr. Dudley, recently tried to claim). So what gives? Other than the fact that people doing the significant work of harvesting and processing said wood are obviously working harder for a lot less, nothing else seems to be working in their favor. I fully realize that we're all in a hand basket heading south, but this little economic anomaly has perplexed me for some time now.
The incentive for my old arse to go back to heating with wood struck a few years back when we realized after a particularly harsh winter, that we couldn't justify spending $3,000 a year for oil, when the same heat was available from five or six hundred bucks worth of wood. All of the other timber commodities have also gone berserk, 'cuz I know that we weren't paying more than maybe $.75 for a 2x4 back then, and they're near $4 today... for crappier wood.
Must be something horribly obvious that I'm missin' here, 'cuz I truly don't get it. Is this all due to increased competition?
ShaneLogs
Addicted to ArboristSite
HAHAHAHA! That was priceless!
Mac88
Addicted to ArboristSite
You and around 312 million people in the US. I thought competition was supposed to drive prices lower. Oh, I forgot, now the competition is over who's going to be the first trillionaire.
zogger
Tree Freak
Lot more people selling wood, drives prices down? Around here, prices aren't that high, the market remains saturated with unemployed guys trying to make a buck, everyone having trees down from the storms, etc. Lot of folks have stacks in the front yard with signs that say wood for sale. Saws/splitters/trucks make the work faster and easier now, too, for even the weekend causal cutters and sellers. Guys who buy even an entry level splitter will be tempted to sell some cords to help pay for that thing. All in all it adds up.
And is firewood a growth heating source, or in continual decline what with more regulations and insurance, etc? I have read right here some areas are now banning new OWB installs, no matter what they are, plus you get burn bans, etc.
Can't say really. Some things get better and cheaper (ex. computers) other things remain the same (ex. firewood prices).
When the firewood prices really start to drop fast is more time to worry about it. Ya sucks if you are the seller, but most people in the firewood equation are consumers, and just looking at natgas, gonna be hard to compete with the deluge of fracked out gas for the next long time, anyplace that has the pipelines for it.
Mac88
Addicted to ArboristSite
Natural gas seems fairly reasonable, at the moment. Like any heating fuel, it tends to go up over heating season. We have NG heat, but seldom use it. Our cook stove and water heater are NG, and a lot cheaper to operate than electric. As you mentioned, the issue for people in the outlands is the lack of NG infrastructure. The option is propane, which can get pretty pricey.
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