Is wood generally accepted as the most efficient means of house/water heating?

[KiwiBro]

I've been looking seriously at gasification boilers recently, compared to heat pumps in particular.

It strikes me, and it would be great to be given alternative views to the contrary and why, that a big 'don't argue' log gasification boiler and storage tanks coupled to underfloor heating and domestic hot water supply would be a great way to go. About the best, it seems. There are so many variables involved as well as personal preferences, so I accept it's not a one-size-fits-all scenario and others may differ.

We like wood, I love working with, around it and not 'paying the man' for the bulk of domestic energy needs. But the costs of getting set up with a kick-ass system seem to leave a large payback period compared to heat pumps and current/projected electricity costs thereof. When all the costs of ownership are spread out over the estimated life of competing systems, I think heat pump tend to work out OK, bugger it all.

Have you spent any time looking into what is best for you and yours? If so, what were the pros and cons for you?

 

[Hedgerow]

The type of system you're thinking of is indeed, impressive!!! And very convenient...
Feed the boiler/turn the dial... You will, however, pay for that convenience... The payback will be a loooong time coming...

 

[KiwiBro]

The type of system you're thinking of is indeed, impressive!!! And very convenient...
Feed the boiler/turn the dial... You will, however, pay for that convenience... The payback will be a loooong time coming...

Indeed. One cannot overlook the reasons why electricity is in nearly every home: convenience, cost, cleanliness, etc.
Trying to get a modicum of convenience (large log capability so fewer logs need splitting, large storage for fewer refills, etc) all come at a cost. I've also looked into, albeit all too briefly, grid-tied electricity generation from the gasification unit and if it would help reduce the pay-back period and keep the whole system on par with heat pumps on an annualised cost of ownership basis and it's still not quite there on a dollars and cents basis, I'm afraid. but then, with NZ's state owned electricity generators about to be partially privatised, it's difficult to project the costs of domestic electricity over the lifespan of a rock-solid boiler for comparison.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Here in the northern US, electric heat is by far the most expensive method. Heat pumps/geothermal are also not very effective at -30F, and as such are rarely used as standalone heating up here, except in some newer super insulated homes.

Here, wood is cheap and plentiful, even if one buys it, so wood boilers and stoves are probably more common than almost anywhere else in the US.

There are a ton of heating cost comparison tools on the web. Every time I've run one in my situation, wood tops the list, followed by pellets/corn, propane, oil, and electricity pretty much always in that order. Natural gas isn't available in my rural area.

One thing you might want to consider, the most ultra efficient boilers havve huge price tags. Perhaps something slightly less efficient at a lower cost would pencil out better?

 

[jrider]

I am looking at about a 4 year pay back time on my gassification unit. After that, free baby!

 

[Cantrellc123]

Break even point

Is there a general time frame that most people use to figure a break even point with the investment of an outdoor wood furnace?
My cost to install my unit including some labor was approx. $8500.00. I'm certain that I'll recoup my investment in 4 years if not a little sooner. To me that was a no brainer. I researched the cost involved beforehand, and the cost savings for heat at my house since the furnace installation has easily proved my research correct.
Of course buying a new splitter,2 saws and various other support items will add at least 1 more year if not a little more to my break even point! LOL

 

[bayard]

wood oil

i have a older wood oil boiler,it is hard to know how efficient it is.it take,s 5 to 7 cords a year nov to may.all night burns 11 to 8.[locust]. house is 72 to 74 all winter,endless showers ,tubs, and washer hot water.how much better could it get?.this unit will heat 3 to 4000sq ft.i shut it down for the summer, and use the elec hot water heater.k

 

[stihly dan]

My stove paid for itself twice over the 1st yr. The new upcoming furnace should take 3 yrs. Why the concern? If you went for a new heatpump, wich then means you needed something new anyway's, there would be no payback. So the choice is go with the same, or go wood and get a payback.
Happy wood burning.

 

[tibikedad]

I have a Tarm gasification boiler with a 820 gal storage tank, along with a DHW coil. I burn all year long (once every 5-6 days in the summer), and burn 7-8 cords of wood / year. The house is about 2600 square feet, and only medium insulated. I buy $600 worth of logs / year, and cut/split them. The entire heating system cost about $20K, which will pay itself in about 5 years. In the meantime, I can keep the house at 72 degrees much of the winter. Since the system should last over 30 years, I consider this a very good investment.

Since the boiler is in my basement, it also keeps the basement warm (added benefit).

 

[cnice_37]

I have a Tarm gasification boiler with a 820 gal storage tank, along with a DHW coil. I burn all year long (once every 5-6 days in the summer), and burn 7-8 cords of wood / year. The house is about 2600 square feet, and only medium insulated. I buy $600 worth of logs / year, and cut/split them. The entire heating system cost about $20K, which will pay itself in about 5 years. In the meantime, I can keep the house at 72 degrees much of the winter. Since the system should last over 30 years, I consider this a very good investment.

Since the boiler is in my basement, it also keeps the basement warm (added benefit).

Pics of the basement setup please! Sounds sweet. Also send your logger my way!

 

[Encore]

Electric in the US is just too expensive. When it gets cold in the winter (0-15 degrees) my neighbors electric bill is over $600 every month. his is baseboard heat though. No heat pump

For us to be using our propane as or primary we'd be spending a little over $300/mth

Our wood stove paid for itself the first year we owned it. Our new Hardy heater will pay for itself in about 2 years.

You just have to look at what fits for you.

I hate being stingy with the thermostat. I did it growing up and all through college and it sucks. Always cold, never comfortable, just no fun.

However the trade off for that luxury is that you spend some time cutting wood. Fortunately for me I don't mind cutting wood so it's no big deal. But it is indeed time consuming. On weekends when some of my buddies are out goofing around on the lake, I'm in the woods.

 

[half]

wood v electric

Kiwi bro, did you see Fair Go last night, they did a comparison and the old woodburner was about the same cost as a heat pump,to run, mind this was done on current power prices, and I bit they factored in the retail price of wood. Not free stuff
To get a 6kw punp cost nearly 4K installed. My woodburner puts out 21kw and it has a wetback to heat water.
So even with the cost of getting the wood recovery tools, I still think my Metro woodburner is cheaper, I dont trust the gubbermint,or the power companys. And if push comes to shove I can cook on the top of mine

 

[KiwiBro]

Kiwi bro, did you see Fair Go last night, they did a comparison and the old woodburner was about the same cost as a heat pump,to run, mind this was done on current power prices, and I bit they factored in the retail price of wood. Not free stuff
To get a 6kw punp cost nearly 4K installed. My woodburner puts out 21kw and it has a wetback to heat water.
So even with the cost of getting the wood recovery tools, I still think my Metro woodburner is cheaper, I dont trust the gubbermint,or the power companys. And if push comes to shove I can cook on the top of mine

Darn it, didn't see it. Would have been great to see how they worked their assumptions and what price they attributed (if any) to convenience. Set up costs aside, if we are burning wood, we want to load that thing with the minimum amount of wood to get the maximum energy from the wood (not lose heat and gasses up the flu), reload it the least number of times, and feed it the biggest possible bits of wood. I could keep it fed all year round with 'uglies' that don't have to be messed with and can't otherwise be sold, if only they will fit in the burner.

I always thought we had both cheap and green 'lecky here in NZ, but for years now our renewable generation as a percentage of 'lecky generated has declined despite successive govts promising the reverse. Further, if Wiki is to be believed (and their NZ pricing seems accurate enough) our existing costs are over 50% more than USA.

locally generated heat and hot water seem logical and if we could generate our own 'lecky too with a clean-burning gasification unit, then that's awesome, but it sure ain't a cheap set up. will it pay for itself in the long run? Yes, I think so. But trying to tie it back to the grid to generate some savings may be more hassle than it's worth. Not only do the generators/lines companies make you jump through many expensive hoops, they pay nothing like the retail cost for the power, despite having next to no incremental costs they haven't already nailed prospective distributed 'lecky generators with. I find it funny, in a twisted, ironic way, Mr Hands (sorry USA readers, you'd have to see the adverts on our national TV to understand that one) on those EECA 'energy spot' ads encouraging us to lower consumption so the country can defer new generation investments when the current vendors put up ridiculously high cost burden hurdles to local, distributed generators feeding power back into the grid. Gee, I wonder why?

 

[Hedgerow]

Darn it, didn't see it. Would have been great to see how they worked their assumptions and what price they attributed (if any) to convenience. Set up costs aside, if we are burning wood, we want to load that thing with the minimum amount of wood to get the maximum energy from the wood (not lose heat and gasses up the flu), reload it the least number of times, and feed it the biggest possible bits of wood. I could keep it fed all year round with 'uglies' that don't have to be messed with and can't otherwise be sold, if only they will fit in the burner.

I always thought we had both cheap and green 'lecky here in NZ, but for years now our renewable generation as a percentage of 'lecky generated has declined despite successive govts promising the reverse. Further, if Wiki is to be believed (and their NZ pricing seems accurate enough) our existing costs are over 50% more than USA.

locally generated heat and hot water seem logical and if we could generate our own 'lecky too with a clean-burning gasification unit, then that's awesome, but it sure ain't a cheap set up. will it pay for itself in the long run? Yes, I think so. But trying to tie it back to the grid to generate some savings may be more hassle than it's worth. Not only do the generators/lines companies make you jump through many expensive hoops, they pay nothing like the retail cost for the power, despite having next to no incremental costs they haven't already nailed prospective distributed 'lecky generators with. I find it funny, in a twisted, ironic way, Mr Hands (sorry USA readers, you'd have to see the adverts on our national TV to understand that one) on those EECA 'energy spot' ads encouraging us to lower consumption so the country can defer new generation investments when the current vendors put up ridiculously high cost burden hurdles to local, distributed generators feeding power back into the grid. Gee, I wonder why?

So you're saying the government promised you something good in return for your tax dollars???
Then when it came down to nut cuttin' time, they couldn't deliver??? And said.. "Use less"...
:hell_boy:
Imagine that...

 

[KiwiBro]

So you're saying the government promised you something good in return for your tax dollars???
Then when it came down to nut cuttin' time, they couldn't deliver???
:hell_boy:
Imagine that...

who'd a thunk it?
Frankly, anyone relying upon the promises of govts almost deserve everything they get.

 

[half]

wood

TVNZ on demand ,have a look

 

[Hedgerow]

who'd a thunk it?
Frankly, anyone relying upon the promises of govts almost deserve everything they get.

Yup...
Sorry for the de-rail...

 

[KiwiBro]

TVNZ on demand ,have a look

Thanks. Consumer mag has more info but haven't addressed radiant heat adequately, imo.:
Heating options - Fuel prices compared - Consumer NZ

 

[zogger]

Electric in the US is just too expensive. When it gets cold in the winter (0-15 degrees) my neighbors electric bill is over $600 every month. his is baseboard heat though. No heat pump

For us to be using our propane as or primary we'd be spending a little over $300/mth

Our wood stove paid for itself the first year we owned it. Our new Hardy heater will pay for itself in about 2 years.

You just have to look at what fits for you.

I hate being stingy with the thermostat. I did it growing up and all through college and it sucks. Always cold, never comfortable, just no fun.

However the trade off for that luxury is that you spend some time cutting wood. Fortunately for me I don't mind cutting wood so it's no big deal. But it is indeed time consuming. On weekends when some of my buddies are out goofing around on the lake, I'm in the woods.

Electric heat is the worst possible. never fails coldest nastiest day of the winter, ice storm, poof, power goes out, then what? Takes a heckuva good gennie to run whole house electric heat, and a lot of gas. And if that fails, it is a countdown to potentially losing your water pipes.

I like wood, you can scrounge it, and stack it, "bank" on it. And there aren't any "wood cartels" to mess with supply and prices, nor "wood speculators" on wall street to drive up the prices and take money from you for doing virtually nothing actually productive.

 

[KiwiBro]

Are their gasification boilers in the USA that are generally accepted as class-leading, either in life expectancy or annualised cost of ownership, or some other criteria?
There are NZ-made boilers but casting a wider net can't hurt.