Land Clearing

[Kaden Gipson]

I have done residential tree trimming and removals for several years now but have recently been asked to bid a tree removal around a small pond. I estimate about an acre and a half to two acres. Most of the trees are about 6 to 8 inches in diameter, may be half a dozen trees are large trees but for the most part it's the smaller trees.

My main issue being, its extremely marshy and cant get heavy equipment or even a truck down to location. I can get a truck close, so I'm thinking best option is to mulch or burn on location. Question being, how do I estimate labor for my bid?

Can post pics tomorrow.

 

[northmanlogging]

Same way you estimate tree work, time equals money, and if ya can't get a machine in there, how do you plan on clearing it? Pretty hard work digging stumps by hand.

 

[Kaden Gipson]

Same way you estimate tree work, time equals money, and if ya can't get a machine in there, how do you plan on clearing it? Pretty hard work digging stumps by hand.

That's where I'm at a loss... I'll bid high before I bid low. I'm gonna get 4-6 guys with saws on the ground. It could take a week or 3 weeks, cant really say

 

[ATpro]

First thing you need to do is get with the owner and come to an agreement on how to dispose of the Trees you cut. Makes all the difference on the amount of time you will invest in this job.

If I was the owner I would have you top the trees and throw them in the pond for fish reefs and cut the rest up for firewood and stack in place, I as the owner would dispose of the firewood by burning or removing later. Save him money and you the trouble.

 

[Kaden Gipson]

First thing you need to do is get with the owner and come to an agreement on how to dispose of the Trees you cut. Makes all the difference on the amount of time you will invest in this job.

If I was the owner I would have you top the trees and throw them in the pond for fish reefs and cut the rest up for firewood and stack in place, I as the owner would dispose of the firewood by burning or removing later. Save him money and you the trouble.

He said I could chip it on site, but I may be able to convince him to just pile and burn later.

 

[catbuster]

I would get mud mats and an excavator with a thumb and tear the stuff out, then stack it and move it out as you move out. 6-8” trees usually aren’t worth going in and sawing unless you’re going to use them for pulp or mulch. In that case I’d cut them off at the root ball and then pop the stumps out with the hoe in the mats.

You should have an idea on your costs, if you need machine rental call and see what it is then factor that, fuel, lube, etc plus operator cost plus a certain percentage of profit.

 

[Deleted member 117362]

I would get mud mats and an excavator with a thumb and tear the stuff out, then stack it and move it out as you move out. 6-8” trees usually aren’t worth going in an sawing unless you’re going to use them for pulp or mulch. In that case I’d cut them off at the root ball and then pop the stumps out with the hoe in the mats.

You should have an idea on your costs, if you need machine rental call and see what it is then factor that, fuel, lube, etc plus operator cost plus a certain percentage of profit.

He has the plan. Have seen a friend do it that way several time. Piles them up, burns them, digs large hole with Cat312 with thumb, pushes left overs in and covers.

 

[northmanlogging]

That's where I'm at a loss... I'll bid high before I bid low. I'm gonna get 4-6 guys with saws on the ground. It could take a week or 3 weeks, cant really say

Thing is without seeing the ground, and timber, it's impossible and foolish to attempt to quote it, and if I was in a position to see it, we'd be competing on it...

That said clearing ground without an excavator is a damn fine way to go broke, running an excavator into soft ground with little or no experience is a quick way to loose a machine and possibly drown in mud.

You wanna do it with chippers saws and stump grinders, good luck, but figure on at least a week just to fall the timber, for one man per acre, add 3 4 weeks per acre to chip with a crew of 3, and another 2 weeks to grind stumps.

Or stick to trimming trees

 

[atpchas]

Might this be the way projects are assessed in the future?
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/144818/return-of-the-gedis-first-data

Excerpt:
"GEDI’s primary mission is to decipher forest structure: how tall the trees are, how densely their branches fit together, how much space lies between treetops and tree trunks, and how the branches are arranged from top to bottom. Knowing such details can foster a better understanding of how trees store carbon and what happens to that carbon when they are cut down or disturbed."

 

[northmanlogging]

That carbon becomes co2 whether it burns or left to rot, but if left to rot it also creates methane, which is way worse then co2

 

[bitzer]

I don't know about out there Northy but here when you open the canopy there are 50+ trees to take the place of the one tree you cut down. Their vigorous growth absorbs vastly more carbon then that one old tree that got cut has in years. The tops may release gas but they also replenish the soil.

I read that what is growing in rainforest clear-cuts of the 70s out produce the old growth forest many many times over for carbon absorption.

I know I don't have to tell you this Northy. Im just building off of your point. Its for those misguided souls that think cutting trees is bad without actually understanding the process and science behind it. Because a school book or a media outlet with an agenda told them so.

 

[northmanlogging]

Hear hear!

 

[northmanlogging]

Granted we is likely preaching to the church secretary, and like one twisted alter bro... but still

 

[Franny K]

.....I read that what is growing in rainforest clear-cuts of the 70s out produce the old growth forest many many times over for carbon absorption.

…..

Not sure where I heard of this. Rain forest has most of the nutrients in the living plants. Clear cutting yields poor soil and hardly anything grows. At least in the short term. Growing crops does not work as well as one might expect.


As to post 1 estimating labor.
"Can post pics tomorrow."

 

[bitzer]

How does a clear cut make poor soil? Unless it's heavily disturbed stuff grows back like crazy with the seed litter and stump sprouts. Even when stumps are pulled and everything is graded it still grows back like crazy. Ask a farmer. The northern half of our state was clear cut in the 1800s and you would never know it now. I've seen clear-cuts that were left to grow back and in 20 years are so thick with growth you can't even walk thru it.

Here's the link

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-35492273

 

[Double_Diamond]

I believe Franny's comment was in regards to a tropical rain forest and not a temperate forest.

 

[bitzer]

The article I posted is about the amazon rainforest.

Unless you pull all the stumps on a hillside and you lose the topsoil, I don't get how just clear cutting ruins the soil.

 

[northmanlogging]

The destroying the soil bit, should be taken with a grain of salt, as that is the line that environuts tend to pull.

what likely happens is that its cut and burnt the burning leading to nutrient loss to a small extent, then heavily farmed without a care to longevity, so the nutrients in the soil are depleted quickly.

Its bad, yes, but it shouldn't need to be, better farming practices would lead to less need for more "virgin land" and therefore less "deforestation" But money is involved. Add money and ignorance (not stupid just not knowing better) you get things done quick and for as little cost as possible.

Meanwhile up here where only so much land is available (because huge amounts of the mid west/high plains is desert) we are a little better at managing what soils we have so farmers tend to stay on their ground because there isn't anymore to be had.

Though if you look at some videos of south american areas that have been cut, farmed, and abandoned... The forests are starting over, as forests will do

A properly managed forest will produce indefinitely, as long as care is taken to maintain all aspects of the forest is should just get better with every cutting, much like farm land if taken care of properly it will just get better and better

 

[northmanlogging]

Also I might add that the ridiculous bans on certain species of wood from certain areas, does nothing to stop people from cutting em down, at least then that piece of Rosewood, or mahogany, ebony etc etc etc would be used in something rather then just set on fire. and maybe have the side effect of making Gibson Les Paul's affordable?

 

[catbuster]

maybe have the side effect of making Gibson Les Paul's affordable?

Good luck with that, Gibson has been in financial trouble for the last 15 years. They are under new management, so we’ll see, but prices have followed inflation while wages haven’t, so the price is, well, not too much higher than where it theoretically should be.

Fender has started using Laurel & Pau Ferro in place of rosewood on most of their non-US made stuff since late 2017. Roger Sadowsky is heading up a luthier’s committee on not grading Ebony as hard too. Interesting to watch CITES affect instrument making.