Logging by the Thousand?

[coastalfaller]

Yup. Planning, or trying to, is key.

What was that about best laid plans?!...........

Kinda like planning a February start in one area and it now being almost June 1st and yet to fall a single tree? Kinda like that?!

 

[Gologit]

What was that about best laid plans?!...........

Kinda like planning a February start in one area and it now being almost June 1st and yet to fall a single tree? Kinda like that?!

Exactly like that. But we still keep planning. Makes us feel all organized and efficient. Even when we're not. Especially when we're not.

 

[coastalfaller]

Exactly like that. But we still keep planning. Makes us feel all organized and efficient. Even when we're not. Especially when we're not.

LOL. Yes we do, Bob...and yes it does!!

 

[tramp bushler]

What was that about best laid plans?!...........

Kinda like planning a February start in one area and it now being almost June 1st and yet to fall a single tree? Kinda like that?!

Man that sucks . . .... thats why I never make a plan ..:cool2:

 

[Sagetown]

Just got to walk the boundary, all blow down as I think I stated........it's a mess. The current boundary I am in is also a blowdown site and also a mess. It's gonna be alot of work but I am pretty sure I can at least make 1 1/2 what I am making a week currently, after figuring all expenses. Timber is selling good around here right now. Obviously I would like to have enough timber to log myself, however seeing as I am attempting to start out I think it would be beneficial to make a little less dinero and get my name out etc......and still make more money than I am currently and hope to get to the position where I am not reliant on other loggers to log by the mbf......... I appreciate all the insight keep it coming!

Tom

Got off a few Reps here. Including Gologit; coastfaller.

 

[Oldtimer]

OK, I didn't realize the tract you are looking to do is blow-down.

IMO, the guy who wants to hire you is one sly fox. He'll be doing the gravy, you'll be dozer-logging blow-downs on the face of a cliff.
I think you have the ability to go get your OWN woodlot. And if I were you, that is exactly what I'd be doing.
I really think this is a mistake for you right now. Spending the savings you have on unknown equipment and then betting that you can make money on steep ground in blow-downs by the cord and thousand...it's not going to end well for you.

Go locate and agree to buy some good timber all on your own. Find the best timber you can, on the best ground you can. BUY IT RIGHT. Remember, if all you go after really good timber- all you will cut is really good timber.
Then go get the equipment...and like I said, do consider having a payment on machines that are able to really produce- preferably in all weather.

Not trying to be a downer here. I just do not want a fellow logger and seemingly real nice guy get screwed.

 

[Johny Utah]

I recently had a proposal from a fellow logger who runs a highball (for around here) logging outfit who is swamped (1,400 ac. under contract) right now to do some sub contract cutting and skidding (he will load and haul). He said he would pay me by the thousand. I am just starting to get serious about all this and need all the work I can get. I have logged out several smaller jobs with a farm tractor and winch etc... but am jumping in head first with the proper equipment, if I can get the work lined out. My question is has anybody done this type of work in hillside hardwood timber and if so what is a reasonable price to try to agree upon per thousand? I'll be running a two man crew with a 450 E JD dozer and a 450 TJ skidder, and to beat all the job is a half mile from the house, right next to the farm I'm logging on right now! He also said he would be willing to turn me onto some smaller jobs he has under contract that he just doesnt have time for. I don't care to work and would like to get enough work lined up to last me about a year before I say to heck with my pipeline job and become self employed again.

Tom

IMHO you are nuts to give up a pipeline job to go into debt and fight the competitiveness for little money and ball busting work. Just do it as a side job.

 

[tramp bushler]

I guess it depends on how much you NEED to run your own show . I could be steady on The Slope as a Union Laborer if I wanted t be making 60-80k Take home net . . . But then I'de be in Deadhorse not home . I getreal tired of being gone bustin butt for 6 week hitches of 7/12s . . I really only have 1 speed
. Work as hard as I can .
Runnin my own show loggin in the winter , I,m doing what I want to making stumps and I get to be home every night . No dought K L will have some tough times . But if its what he needs to do then I say , Go Ahead On Er . .

By not having big payments . He won't be under the gun as much and may well have alot better home life . . Also with SOOOO many things he's going to learn . He can learn them at a pace where hopefully he won't get hurt . As it is he will have his plate full just bucking fresh blowdown .

 

[tramp bushler]

I don't know about eastern timber . But as he has steep ground its going to take everything he's got toget the stuff off the root and sta
y alive and healthy .!!

Here on the coast bucking fresh blowdown is the most dangerous cutting there is . And that is saying alot. Definately not for the short bar , flat land crowd .

A friend of mine got killed in Tolstoy Bay buckin blowdown .
It ain't for the faint of heart . .

 

[tramp bushler]

Actually , in his situation I would highly recomend him finding a good faller . Hammer may know a good one that needs work , . And K L work with him some to learn the ropes . Then when they have a weeks worth cut start loggin so the bucker has some breathin room and K L always has loggin in front of the machines . .

 

[Oldtimer]

I wouldn't see him give up on logging, I'd just see him give up on this particualar job.
If this were in my back yard, and the job was offered to me- dozer logging blowdown hardwoods on steep ground...I'd want to split the money 75/25, and the other guy would pay stumpage - if any - out of his 25%....and even then I'd have to have no other work to go do.

It's super dangerous, it's super labor intensive, and it doesn't sound like there's any money to be made..

Rule #2 in logging: Know when to say "NO"...

 

[tramp bushler]

My biggest problem with gypo loggin is the business side . So I'm not a good one on that . But the cutting side is going to be spooky .

 

[hammerlogging]

Actually , in his situation I would highly recomend him finding a good faller . Hammer may know a good one that needs work , . And K L work with him some to learn the ropes . Then when they have a weeks worth cut start loggin so the bucker has some breathin room and K L always has loggin in front of the machines . .

If I were him I would try and get some third party advice for sure, someone who has been around a bit, maybe some training, at least someone to help sketch out how to operate successfully.

 

[KYLogger]

As always great info; now I'll try to give you a little background and insight on me (so you all can get a better understanding of who I am and what I know) While not a timber faller with decades of exp (I am only 28) I do have alot of time on the loud side of a 2 stroke! This is by no means my first logging job either, I cut for a crew for about six months (contract cutting), have bought small boundaries and logged them before (full time for a while then part time) and have logged ice storm damaged timber in 09. Currently I have bought a boundary of approximately 75 acres of blowdown that I have been in for about a month now. I have been logging with a tractor and winch and NEED to upgrade equipment (35 acres of the boundary I am on now are under the cliffs, big second growth oak, poplar, and white pine, so a skidder and dozer are needed to get it out) I know I can get timber bought on my own, but as I see it, it will take some time. I was just considering this as a means of added income until I can get my schedule full. I understand this guy is a businessman and knows he can make money off of my labor, which I do not mind as long as I can make a decent living. I had only planned doing this as a one time deal and did not want to get sucked into the "working for the man" vortex. Currently I am employed by a pipeline contractor who works for Columbia Gas, I am home every night but am currently working 92 miles one way from home and am getting tired of relatively low wages and seeing my house only in the dark, not to mention missing my 4 year old boy growing up And logging on raindays and weekends is just not cutting it, hauling to the mills at night and on the weekends and having to unload the truck myself. Absolutely no production there!
As I was formerly self employed I fully understand the: sometimes you just gotta say NO! I learned the hard way if you don't you can end up working you hind end off for little or no profit!

And a big 10-4 on the blowdown being absolutely NUTS..........IT IS.............. Buckin' em off the stump is always a blast! (note the sarcasm) About 3/4 of the root balls set back down so you think you know whats gonna happen........until it doesn't!


Tom

 

[coastalfaller]

Man that sucks . . .... thats why I never make a plan ..:cool2:

Yep, been brutal, snow is still hanging on up high. Thank god we've been going elsewhere!

 

[tramp bushler]

Hey Tom
its good t hear you've got some good experience . I think you have a good shot . But its going t be alot of hard work .
Having a good blow down bucker will ftee you up to concenyrate on the iron and the loggin . Hopefully there are some professionals there . . Did it blow down up and down the hill or ctoss ways , along the hill .

 

[KYLogger]

Most of it fell cross hill. I have got white pines laying on oaks laying on poplars laying on pines.....Some of the tops are 8' off the ground! This is some of the bigger timber I have cut in, the white pines and hemlocks are averaging in the 40" + mark.....This on the site I personally have under contract, still up in the air about the contract work, need to get with him and hash out the details and see if we can see eye to eye.

Tom

 

[Oldtimer]

You should try to finance a leveling tracked buncher with a hotsaw. It'll make the blowdown SAFER and far more profitable. If need be, you can always find somebody to assume the payment or buy it off for the balance of the loan..I personally would want to be able to see my boy grow up...blowdown hardwood is about as dangerous as it gets.

Good luck.

 

[tramp bushler]

Most of it fell cross hill. I have got white pines laying on oaks laying on poplars laying on pines.....Some of the tops are 8' off the ground! This is some of the bigger timber I have cut in, the white pines and hemlocks are averaging in the 40" + mark.....This on the site I personally have under contract, still up in the air about the contract work, need to get with him and hash out the details and see if we can see eye to eye.

Tom

I hope your not going after this with some stubby bared , half wrap small , 65 cc saw .

40" on the stump blowdown is at least 75 ccs and 90 cc is better . 32" bar or longer and absolutely need a wrap handle bar . There are lots of times you can only run the saw left handed . . Actually , it sounds real interesting . It'de be fun .

 

[KYLogger]

You know it! That's how it's done here in hardwood country, however I am not your typical cigarette hanging outta the corner of your mouth, tall tractor cap wearin, pull on redwing boot wearin, Wal-Mart wrangler wearin, cut off collared shirt logger that is typical around here. Not that I have a problem with all the aforementioned that's actually what I look like when not in the woods (sans cigarette) What I am gettin' at is I find what works for me and is functional in the woods and put that to use. I am open to change, slippin down a 60 degree slope in slick soled pull on boots is retarded, double fronts last longer than regular jeans, hard hats keep whats left in my noggin........in my noggin, chaps keep me from a repeat $1,800 hospital bill, and dang it if a 90cc saw with a full wrap works better than I will gladly be be tha' oddball around here. This is the land of the 460s and I really want one, but I found a cherry 660 for $800 bones!!! Man that's alot of saw to pack all day though! Hmmmmm..........I might be the only logger running around here that looks like a PNW guy soon.........If it works use it, if it don't modify it or junk it!

Tom