Making money with a portable sawmill

[4x4American]

I'd be asking him if he wants to sell it.

went over to the guys place with the woodmizer on lunch break the other day, he wasn't around, and I didn't see the mill, but I did see stickered lumber all over the place. nothing looked like it was recently cut. Will have to try back another time

 

[4x4American]

Converting logs to lumber is one thing... converting lumber to cash is another. You'll never be able to compete with the big mills, so finding specialized markets will be the key. Trailer decking, barn siding, and fencing may be good options to get started. Added service, such as installing the trailer decking, air drying the lumber, etc. will also help out the bottom line, if you price it high enough to make a profit.

I bucked the trend and sold my hydraulic mill (Timberharvester) for a Norwood manual sawmill (HD36), and it was a great move. Portable sawmilling accounts for about 60% of my business, and the manual mill is simpler to run, easier to get to the job site, and much more reliable than the hydraulic. Since there are no other portable sawmills in the area, I keep busy. And there are no issues about selling logs.

If you do go the used route, avoid any mill that has been left out in the weather. Otherwise you will be replacing hydraulic lines, fighting bad electrical connections, and dealing with a host of other problems.

I was thinking that what i might do, is try to find a used manual portable mill, and see where that leads me. If I can keep busy and pay it off with the profits, then I might look into a woodmizer lt40 hydraulic...if not, well then sell the thing buy a skidder and go logging see if i can't pay that one off.

 

[4x4American]

We've got a guy in our area that does this very well with his Woodmizer.

He Stays busy.

good to hear, what state are ya in

 

[KiwiBro]

If I can keep busy and pay it off with the profits

How much asking around for buyers etc have you done to help ease your mind there is a market for the lumber, or are you going to rely on providing a milling service to others or a bit of both or? Finding buyers for the lumber is often the hard part, me thinks.
Here, I have rights on hundreds of tonnes of premium grades of standing saw logs that I have refused to harvest until I can find a lumber buyer. It's been such a hard/long/unsuccessful process finding buyers that forest owners are changing, selling their land, and my rights are sketchy at best in some of these woodlots now. I would buy a $70k mill tomorrow if I had a lumber buyer lined up because it would pay that mill off inside a year or two, but without lumber buyers, it's a recipe for ruin.

 

[4x4American]

How much asking around for buyers etc have you done to help ease your mind there is a market for the lumber, or are you going to rely on providing a milling service to others or a bit of both or? Finding buyers for the lumber is often the hard part, me thinks.
Here, I have rights on hundreds of tonnes of premium grades of standing saw logs that I have refused to harvest until I can find a lumber buyer. It's been such a hard/long/unsuccessful process finding buyers that forest owners are changing, selling their land, and my rights are sketchy at best in some of these woodlots now. I would buy a $70k mill tomorrow if I had a lumber buyer lined up because it would pay that mill off inside a year or two, but without lumber buyers, it's a recipe for ruin.

My plan was to start off going door to door milling for now. There's a guy I've been talking to outta VT who's making a go of it. I have seen/heard of no portable sawyers round here. Lots of logging going on though. Been busy at the shop too. We sold/installed 3 rotobec log loaders in the past few weeks and just got more in and today two hood loaders showed up. The company wouldn't bring them in unless there was buyers, which says to me, that logging is in it's boom stage right now round here

 

[4x4American]

I put an ad up on CL to try and see how much of a market there is around here for portable sawmilling service, so far I've gotten 2 people who are interested within 24 hours. The second guy said that he thought it would be a great venture for me as there's no one around here that does door to door milling.

Anyways, I am trying to do what I can right now to learn about bandsaw milling without having a mill. Does anyone know of any good books to read, or internet sites to go to?

Thanks

 

[Dave Boyt]

Check with manufacturers about videos & info, and make sure you get a mill that suits your purposes. Even if you have to travel a ways, it would be very worthwhile to spend some time working on a sawmill for the experience. The single biggest mistake I see people make is to depend on making an income from day 1. It takes years to build up a business, and that means having a cash reserve to get you through the lean times.

 

[SDB777]

Have you looked here?
http://www.woodmizer.com/us/ResourceCenter/FindaCustomSawyer.aspx


I started with a chainsaw mill, worked and cut enough with that to purchase a small bandsaw mill. The mill is not portable though, so it may not apply for anything you are intending to do.... It takes time to 'build a business', as with everything getting your name out there is probably the toughest part.

One piece of advise. Don't try to build so quickly that you cut your own throat. In other words, don't sell yourself cheap. Once that gets around, you will always be known as the guy that does things cheap....or worse, free. And then no one will be willing to pay. Come up with a plan, price list, and cover everything from wear on equipment to 'steel' in the timber.....and then stick to it.




Scott (lots of mills in the world, choose what you want) B

 

[Jim Timber]

Check with manufacturers about videos & info, and make sure you get a mill that suits your purposes. Even if you have to travel a ways, it would be very worthwhile to spend some time working on a sawmill for the experience. The single biggest mistake I see people make is to depend on making an income from day 1. It takes years to build up a business, and that means having a cash reserve to get you through the lean times.

I was reading some info on one of the manufacturers websites about how to structure a business plan around the mill. They did pretty well explaining things, but used full week (5 days) and 6 day week scenarios. I about spit my beverage when I saw that.

Milling other people's wood is a cash flow thing and likely only good for filling in down time when you're waiting on inventory to sell. You only make real money creating value added (the wood). The day rates most companies use to "sell" their mills are poverty. You'll have travel time and expenses, as well as insurance to account for. Liability and comprehensive. When you're towing the mill around, it's probably not covered by your auto policy. If it's a commercial operation, it's certainly not covered by your home owners either.

 

[4x4American]

good thoughts everyone, lots to think about!

 

[Jim Timber]

If you have the trees (or access to them), and you can get a kiln running, you might be able to drum up enough business to keep you busy selling directly to cabinet shops or maybe flooring contractors? This is going to be better demand than praying you find 300+ home owners who need a pile of logs sawn up every year. It's still not going to make you good money, but at least it potentially will keep your kids fed.

One of the most enlightening interviews I listened to on the subject was a radio show with this fellow who runs a farm I think in SW Wisconsin. He had a mill, but he didn't sell lumber so much as he sold higher tier products made from it. He also sold their waste products for animal bedding and mulch. Totally vertically integrated, and had some artists/craftsmen on staff making nick knacks, flooring (and installing it), furniture, etc - they had a good business model like that, but not a one-man proposition.

I think the real profit potential with a mill is making high end stuff people can't buy from Ikea or Ethan Allen (look at the "what'd you make with your wood threads - those pieces will sell for good money!). Unless there's a lack of supply for such things, even that's not going to produce profits from the start. What made me almost spit in the comment above was that the article only mentioned that your productivity would have a bit of a learning curve before you were able to crank out the rated production output of their products. What's so funny is that it takes years to achieve that much demand for your services (if you ever do?).

I'd like to sell wood someday, but I see the immediate value in a mill as a way to create lumber I'd otherwise need to buy from someone else. I already have the trees...

 

[4x4American]

I was thinking to try and get a cheap enough used mill that I'd also be able to get a skidder and call it: Logging Today, Milling Tomorrow

 

[Mike Van]

No matter what mill you buy, dirt is your biggest enemy. You can not saw a log packed with it, unless you want to change blades after every cut, and you can not saw with dull blades. Power washing, de barking, using a bark spud, whatever is not 'free time' Going to peoples log piles, you will see the worst logs in the worst shape you can imagine. And, they expect veneer quality lumber out of them. Most woodworkers I know will not buy lumber that is not kiln dried, they just won't take the risk of insects, knots bleeding out, etc. If you try to be a lumber yard, you need a lot of room. Even rough sawn framing type lumber, if you make 12' 2x8's, they'll ask for 2x10's, and on & on. My 20+ year old mill is fixed here, not portable. All my support stuff [tools, welder loader, sharpener, setter, etc] stay right here. My best market has turned out to be other peoples logs, they haul them in, quick turn around. The 'big' mills won't even talk to the guy with 4 or 5 logs. You don't have to worry about competing with 'big' mills. I get paid before the lumber leaves, I don't care if its a friend of a friends cousin or what, 20+ years, I haven't been shafted like someone posted above. It's too hard a job to not get paid. I've had a good local market the last few years sawing black locust for raised garden beds, many people today do no believe in the 'better living through chemistry' theme. I've sold it for trailer decks, sills in barns, sign posts, etc. There's locust posts still here my grandfather put in 50 years ago. The daily board footage totals most mill mfg's post are there to sell their mill, thats all. Real world totals under real world conditions are much lower. At 63, I'm happy to saw 1000 bf in a day. Some days it's 500. I went to .40 bf this year, I was at .35 for a long time. I work alone, all the time. If you have a big bank note to pay off, [i never did] you really have to hustle, not just to make expenses, but to put money in your wallet at the end of the day. It's too hard of work to lose money at it. I wish you well if you get into this work, success is not a sure thing, though. I've got some lumber in the barns 20 years now, not too good a return on investment. If I cut it logs into firewood, I get paid within a year. Last winter everyone ran out of good firewood. Not everyone's always looking for clear oak boards though. This is the most I've typed in ??? If it wasn't pouring rain, I'd be out working............

 

[4x4American]

Thanks for the post, sure helps!...I see you're from Kent, CT. Do you know the Osbournes? My old boss is from there, her old man does excavating work, and plays drums in a band and her brother has a business doing some sort of stone work I think...can't remember exactly what. His name's Adam Osbourne. Then there's Aunt Nina she has a farm there not sure the name of it. You know any of them?

 

[Mike Van]

Small world, I know them all - Good friends too -

 

[4x4American]

Pretty cool! Good folks they are

 

[Dave Boyt]

"I was thinking to try and get a cheap enough used mill..."

Been there, done that. Look at it this way. The mill is the foundation of your business, and a cheap mill can cost you more time and aggravation than it is worth. Get a good mill that will do the job, even if you have to buy a new one. Then take care of it. My previous mill was a cheap used hydraulic mill, and I wasted a lot of time trying to keep everything working. I finally sold it and bought a GOOD manual sawmill (Norwood) that I can upgrade to hydraulic later when I can afford it. After three years, I still use it as a manual mill, but have had the funds to set up a kiln and get a good 4wd tractor to move logs & lumber.

 

[STLfirewood]

Here is a picture of a slab holder I made. It works great for my secondary market from the waste. Here is also a picture of what the waste becomes.

 

[Jim Timber]

Which is why a wood fired kiln seems like a burgers and beer combo to me.

 

[STLfirewood]

Which is why a wood fired kiln seems like a burgers and beer combo to me.

I don't understand what that means? But I do have a wood fired kiln.